Why do high stage buildings prefer to grow on a freshly zoned spot?

[flame1396]

I have noticed this thing that happens with high stage buildings in my city (my observation is mostly residential, as I am a plop feind when it comes to commercial).

So when I am wanting a high stage building to grow I zone one spot of the size of zone of the lot I want to grow. So with the bulldoze till it grows strategy would work because I had the demand, right? WRONG!

When the wrong high stage building grew I blew it up, for a couple game years I continued on the same zone spot bulldozing whatever grew (all low stage). Then I dezoned it, rezoned and presto! High density (wrong again) so I repeated the process. The high stage buildings only grew on fresh zones! Is that odd or what?

And no, nothing grew elsewhere to change things (almost all of my city is historical and tightly regulated). And the desirability stayed the same. Close (reeeeeally close) jobs nearby and easy and fast to commute to, good education, good health. NOTHING was missing that would affect it, not power, police, water, fire coverage, nothing zip and nada.

And it couldnt be a cap, as the high density did develop after the plot was just zoned (yes, high density).

Anyone got a clue?

[dedgren]

That is an excellent question...

...that I am totally clueless as to the answer of...

I'll second the request- any "game engine" gurus out there want to take a stab at this?


David

[schooner2]

I have noticed this before as well.  I suspected that when a building is demolished, the lot's aura is diminished somehow and becomes less favorable for R$$$.   When you de-zone, the loss of aura is removed and then the re-zoned lot is back as before.  I assumed this was just part of the game calculation. Just my theory.   

[flame1396]

Hmm.... demolition causing a temporary drop in desireability. Excellent suggestion, however the effect lasts years. A little "ghost in the machine"?

[mightygoose]

maybe the stage cap at the time of zoning is recorded by a lot. thus the game wants to grow stage fours again... only then can they be replaced normally with higher stage stuff. i have this problem with industry... trying to get the big maxis ones to grow....

[flame1396]

Industry is a pain... I use Buggi's extra cheats dll to plop them

[dioangel]

that's very weird... I had the same, but a little different. 

[screamingman12]

It has to do with demand in neighboring cities. For example, if you are zoning city X and next to it is city Y, and city Y has very high demand (R, let's say) then demand will transfer from city Y to city X. The end result of this will be higher stage buildings developing quicker, if you want to try this yourself, clump cities togeather in a region and whatch, you should start to see higher-stage buildings develop faster, you will also have frequent re-development of existing zones. 

[Rodent1989]

That isn't true.  The demand isn't extrapolated from city x to city y until you save and exit city x and load city y.

[cogeo]

It has to do with desirability. Newly-zoned lots initially have a higher desirability. After the zones develop desirablity drops. If a high wealth/stage building develops early and then desirability drops it may soon get abandoned or dilapidated. The factors that cause desirability to drop are:
- Crime: initially there is no crime, but after the lots develop some few crime incidents may take place, causing the lot to look yellow in the crime dataview. There is also an ingame "feature" (bug), that causes large lots to suffer from crime much more. This is especially evident in very large lots, like airports, the Air Base, Area 5.1, the "Mega" lots (R,C,I) etc. They look almost constantly deep red in the dataview. Lots needed for high-stage buildings (usually 4x4, 4x3, 3x4 plus custom sizes like 5x4, 6,4 etc) suffer high crime rate too, though to a lesser degree.
- Parks/Trees: If the zoned lots have trees inside the zone or around, desirability gets a boost which is subsequently lost.
- Pollution: All building generate some pollution, which causes desirability to drop a little.
- Commute times: As the lots are initially empty, the roads servicing them have little or no traffic, but as they develop (esp buildings with a high number of occupants) commute time increases, congestion may take place, which can increae pollution from the roads as well.
Tackling the above desirability factors (good police coverage, parks/trees, careful zoning, good transportation) can help miminize this effect. "Arterial" network layout (low-capacity networks leading to higher-capacity ones, streets being only dead-ends) may prove to work better than grid. There should be no direct residences to workplaces paths through streets only. For residential it might be preferable to zone the lots not directly facing the main road (esp avenues) in order to help reduce pollution and traffic noise, so better zone the lots 2 or preferably 3 tiles off the avenue. The gap can be filled with parks, trees, or commercial zones. Commercial is a different case, they actually benefit from traffic, and can tolerate some pollution.
There is a mod on the STEX by Bones1, whose principle is overlapping desirability ranges for growth and dilapidation. That is the desirabilty threshold for development or exiting the dilapidation state is higher than the threshold for dilapidation. This means that medium- or high-wealth buildings are harder to grow, but are harder to dilapidate too. In the default settings these are all equal, causing early growth and then dilapidation or abandonment (due to the mechanisms described above) and frequent changes of buildings' state. That is the mod should result in more stable cities, though high wealth buildings would be harder to get. Many players, eager to build a booming and spectacular metropolis as soon as possible won't like this (I'm not talking about MDs, they are mostly cheats), but I think the concept is correct. It doesn't affect demand and if the criteria for $$ and $$$ demand are met, demand will accumulate and growth will finally take place, though not as early as before, but with much less chance of dilapidation or abandonment. I haven't really tested it ingame, but I was planning to do so, preferably in a new region. Someone should test this more in-depth and maybe suggest different values for the thresholds.

[Diggis]

I think the CAM also creates a similar effect with regard to the dilapidation.

[RippleJet]

Thank you Cogeo for an excellent reply!

I think the CAM also creates a similar effect with regard to the dilapidation.

Yes, the less dilapidation mod by bones1 is included in the CAM, with the same thresholds.

[flame1396]

Ok... thanks cogeo. Put all the stuff I already knew into context. Problem solved 

[mott]

An existing zone knows about the negatives of an area, like pollution and noise, and remembers that information when checked for re-development.  A new zone doesn't know yet.  The simulator can take a game-month or two to get around to updating this information, and in the meantime, you might get a building to grow that shouldn't have.  It also might abandon if conditions are bad enough and it's a  $$$ building. 

[Denon333]

.....And no, nothing grew elsewhere to change things (almost all of my city is historical and tightly regulated). And the desirability stayed the same. Close (reeeeeally close) jobs nearby and easy and fast to commute to, good education, good health. NOTHING was missing that would affect it, not power, police, water, fire coverage, nothing zip and nada.

And it couldnt be a cap, as the high density did develop after the plot was just zoned (yes, high density)....

Actually if you unlock all the historical ticks(May be tendious),it might help.If you are,either use another building style(not the european),or use all building style's and click All building style's.Last suggestion:have you built alot of parks?You have to if the cap has hit.And build mass transit.If you don't,the traffic will be like parking lots even for expressways.Build subways,bus stops and maybe consider an elevated rail system.

[kyero]

Thanks for keeping this stuff in archives. Almost 2 years later, it still was very useful to me. 

[chasespncr]

i think i have a simple answer....if a zoned area is likely to grow a high stage building then it will do so when it is zoned