Self-Installers

[Tilarium]

  First, I want to say that his isn't against anyone and isn't designed to insult anyone.  I appriciated every single modder of this great game, it's because of them that it's lasted as long as it has even after Maxis left it in the dust.

Something I've always wondered though... why does everyone (here atleast) make their mods with installers?  I hate.. really really hate installers.  Two reasons why.

I like to catagorize my mods in several ways.  First is by what they are (parks, residential, industry, etc etc) and even sub-catagorize them (Industral-Farm, Industrial-Dirty, Industial High-tech, etc etc).  When it comes to the dependencies I catagorize them by the maker (BSC, DED, Porkie, etc etc etc).  The installers don't do that by default so I have to change the destination for every single one (and beleive me, I have ALOT.. dependencies along, I have about 90% of the ones in the LEX).

The other reason I don't like them is, even without having to change the destination for each one, they take to long.  I have to unzip, run the installer, change the destination, install, clean up the files it doesn't install where I tell it to (happens to much!).  If there was no installer and instead just the files inside the zip all I would have to do is unzip, copy, paste. 

Just curious if why everyone here does the installers and curious if I'm the only one that doesn't like them?

Again, this isn't against the modders, just me saying what I prefer and wondering why things are done one way and not another.

[Swordmaster]

Installers are used as an effort to simplify user support. By making sure your files are in the same place, it avoids the common question "where do I put this". Additionally, it avoids people botching their install by forgetting half of the files or something like that.

I also have all of my files in places I designate myself. After running an installer, it takes all of five seconds to get the files where I want them. So I don't really understand your problem.


Cheers
Willy

[Tilarium]

Perhaps I'm just doing it ineffecantly then?  My process is this:

• Unzip everything.
• Start installer
• Paste in the new destination
• Run installer
• Move to next file and repeat

The process is between 3 and 6 seconds per installer.  On the dependancies alone, I've currently done 30 with about 100-150 more to go.  Everything is catorgized how I want them in my Download folder, if there were no installers, I'd be done with everything in 3-6 seconds total because I just have to copy and paste from the DL folder.

What's your method? 

[Yild]

Just curious if why everyone here does the installers and curious if I'm the only one that doesn't like them?

You are not the only one

Installers used at LEX don't even support extract method. You can't extract its contents by 3-rd party program like i.e. msi files (i know that there are mac users as well... [msi can be saved as an "exe" to]) so everything must be done manually.
In addition this installer have tends to be inoperable by keyboard, in most time buttons can't receive focus from a keyboard and only mouse can be used to proceed further.
I know, i tried almost every mod from LEX...

[Swordmaster]

The process is between 3 and 6 seconds per installer.

I know we're living in an age where everything has to happen instantaneously, but don't you think you're exaggerating a little? Some of these mods and models took weeks or months to create, not to mention the fact you can literally spend years playing with them, and you can't stand a couple of minutes worth of extracting?


Cheers
Willy

[Tilarium]

Ok, I just timed the last batch.  I'm taking between 15 and 20 seconds each file.  Lets just say 15 seconds each... that's 4 a minute, 40 for every 10 minutes.  Lets be moderate and say I have 400 mods (I actually have more then that), so that's over an hour and a half.  I just spend the last 6 days on 5 different sites filtering through and DLing all of those mods.  Now I'm spending over an hour and a half installing them.  I work on average 10 hours a day, sleep 7, work out, shower, eat.  So sitting around for as long as I am/have been, not fun at all.  I understand and respect the time it takes a mod.  But when I can spend 5 minutes to unzip, copy, paste and good to go but instead I'm spending hours doing it, I think I'm allowed to voice my opinion in stating that I hate installers.

[jmyers2043]

But when I can spend 5 minutes to unzip, copy, paste and good to go but instead I'm spending hours doing it, I think I'm allowed to voice my opinion in stating that I hate installers.

You certainly can voice your opinion because it seems you are doing so politely. Others in the past have voiced similar sentiment but salted it with colorful language and peppered it with condescending attitude. It seems to me that 5 minutes is a loooong time to get custom content into the game. And I'd be looking for a quicker way if it took me that long too. But it does not because I actually like installers.

I download something, click, click, click, I'm done. I'm befuddled as to why you think your method if faster. And you know what? I have to use your method on occasion when I download something from other web sites. OK, we both unzip so that part of the chore is similar. I then create a new directory, decide and separate the game files away from the read me files and images. Move the read me and images to a location. Move the actual lot, bat, mod files to my newly created directory in the plugins. Whoa! The installer does it with a simple click.

I know that you have a file system. That's fine. That shows that you are taking responsibility for your plugins in the best way that you can.  But please hear me and understand my point of view. As Swoardmaster says, installers make for fewer customer support issues down the road. I am the one who has to deal those inquiries. Not you. Not everyone is as able or as organized as you. Also, future updates to the files are quick because the installer simply overwrites the originals. Provided they are left in the deployed locations. Also, I am also a scrutineer and the overwrite function makes that job easier. A file comes back with a correction, click, click, and I am now testing the new improved version without having to do extra moving,  searching, deleting, etc. I can probably think of other things but that is enough given the two minutes I've spent typing so far.

The point I am making is that installers make life easier for me. It is your decision to move the content to a preferred location after file deployment. Not mine. I assume it is done because it is worth the time and effort. That's fine too.


- Jim

[Reform]

I personally prefer installers. Selecting and changing your preferences is easy with them.

I just recently had to re-download and build my whole Plugins folder. First I made site specific (LEX, STEX, PLEX etc.) download folders and organized all my files under them. I created my preferred folder structure under Plugins folder and installed the content right in to them. Most installers do allow you to change the target folder, before installing the content. That way I could easily manage file structure and loading orders, without cut and paste process.

By the way, sometimes these installers leave an unnecessary amount of installation junk, if they are ran from desktop. Windows users can simply run CCleaner and see from "Tools" section if they are any scheduled tasks left from these installer files.


(Old picture from my previous installation after a hard drive crash.)

- Ilja

[wouanagaine]

Installers or not, I really don't see how you'll not spend time unzip copying, filtering etc... and more importantly be sure what you get is working in game. What a waste of donwloading time if what you spend hours downloading is not showing correctly or at all in the game. With installers I'm pretty confident it install things in the correct place so it can works in the game.

It takes long also because you install 400 Mod in a row, do you think it is a common case ?

I myself prefer plain zip over installers, but it is from a technical point of view (no way to only extract), not from a 'waste of time' point of view