Agricultural Community I-R Demand Issue

[Unassigned]

This village-cum-suburb was developing according to plan. I had laid out the residential and the auxiliary (mostly commercial) areas and several farms and everything was evolving as I hoped. Then suddenly farms wouldn't grow anymore.


The pivot of the community is the old village at the bend in the river. At the lower left corner of the tile is a denser residential area (only partly visible in the picture), this is to have enough residents...and is rationalized as a satellite suburb of the larger town to the south (which has not been built yet). There is also a small hamlet of about 20 homes just off the eastern edge of the pic (well sorry, but I could not fit everything into a zoom 2 shot).

I wanted to grow a thriving farming community in this pleasant mountain valley...the plan was to zone 5-10 farms at a time, let them grow, zone a new bunch of farms etc...then when I felt there were enough farms add forests and trees and eye candy, ending up with picturesque mountain idyll.

Things were coming along nicely.


Then I zoned about 7 new farms and plopped a pond and some trees.


Four of the new farms never developed and the agricultural demand went negative and stayed negative (The other negative Industry demands are because they are taxed 20% to make them stay away).

Perhaps there is a land value problem? Land is too expensive for aspiring agriculturalists?


Now what I wish to ask is how I can get my tile back into a state where farms will grow again. Preferably without destroying everything. I have already attempted playing with taxes and do stuff to lower the land value, with very little success although I bulldozed forests, ponds, church and cemeteries.

I look forward to reading your comments and critique.

PS: I have read many tutorials and examples of the eye candy aspects of rural communities both here on SC4D and on Simtropolis. However there seems to be no tutorial on the game-mechanical/economic aspects of building agricultural villages. If there are such tutorials, I'd love to have links. If not, well then I will make some more agri-building topics and perhaps end up writing that tutorial when I've wised up to the subject.

[RippleJet]

There are three things that kill off farm demand:

1. Education
Your city EQ level needs to stay below 50.
Otherwise your sims are becoming too bright and won't be working in farms anymore.

2. Traffic
Heavy traffic (and air pollution) reduces farm demand.
Note also that through traffic passing this city may contribute to the traffic volume.

3. Other jobs
The farming CAP is based on the sum of all other jobs in your city. The initial farming CAP is 30,000.
As soon as CO§§+CO§§§+CS§+CS§§+CS§§§+ID+IM+IHT becomes close to 30,000, the farming demand will disappear.

[Unassigned]

Thank you RippleJet!

As I have only a school and a library I didn't think to check the EQ which turns out to be about 150!!! BTW that's the "Lil Red Schoolhouse" and the "CSX Aldeburgh Library", I will be checking if it is any or both of those two which causes the high EQ.

As for traffic, air pollution and other jobs: The traffic display shows only green traffic density (on NAM A - Hard, though), there is no air pollution and the total # of jobs is 1774, farming jobs included. And this is the only populated tile in the region so far (does the farming cap apply to the tile only or to the region total?). So I guess the high EQ is the culprit.

May I ask where (if anywhere) I can look up the numbers & other precise information in your post for myself?

[RippleJet]

(does the farming cap apply to the tile only or to the region total?).

All CAPs are citywide, not regionwide.

May I ask where (if anywhere) I can look up the numbers & other precise information in your post for myself?

Now, let me see...

The initial I-R CAP is given in the property Initial Supply in the RCI Exemplar I-R Cap
(TGI 0x6534284a, 0xc7bb4816, 0x00004900) in SimCity_1.dat.

The information about the other jobs capping I-R is from Prima's Strategy Guide
(actually one of very few useful pieces of information I've got from it).

The effect of education on I-R is from the Workforce Drives in certain RCI Exemplars
(TGI 0x6534284a, 0xc7bb4816, 0x000221XX) in SimCity_1.dat.

The effect of traffic on I-R is from the property Traffic Effect in the I-R Developer Exemplar
(TGI 0x6534284a, 0x67cd5fa1, 0x00004100) in SimCity_1.dat.

[jmyers2043]

the plan was to zone 5-10 farms at a time, let them grow, zone a new bunch of farms etc

That is a good plan. It is the only way I play the game.

RJet gives good advise. I'll add by saying that demand is a regional thing. You didn't say whether this was the first city in a new region. I have found the best way to make a farm city in a region is to make it first. You will find that a large neighbor city with high education and high wealth jobs will also kill the demand for farms in other cities you may have wanted to keep rural. I always make my farms cities first in any region that I start. Then finish off with the 'big' city.

agricultural demand went negative and stayed negative (The other negative Industry demands are because they are taxed 20% to make them stay away).

I am not sure that is a good strategy. First, no high tech industry will want to move in or develop if you keep education low and do not place or plop city service buildings such as parks, fire, or police. So leave the taxes alone. Secondly, I have found that successful farming also requires some heavy industrial zones. Enough in fact to keep ID demand lower than I-AG. The ID can either be in the same city as your farming community or in a neighbor city (remember_regional).


Basically, you will want to create a city where only low wealth Sims want to live. The I-AG demand will then take care of itself if you do that. This means no police or hospital. A fire station is probably OK but don't plop it unless you have to put out a fire. A little water primarily for heavy industry and the citizens in your central village of 3,000 or so. Keep education low but a grade school is probably OK as it will not raise education too high. You can then decide what do do once your farms have grown. Go to another farm city? Work on your major city? Increase education and add a couple of city services to encourage R$$ Sims to your existing rural city thus encouraging better looking homes and businesses?

One other thing that I do, but not necessarily the correct way to play ... is to make only rail connections at first. This will facilitate freight traffic which encourages ID and I-AG. Making about 6 rail connections per large city. This also relieves freight road traffic which dilapidates farm fields situated along the roads. I'll run roads up to the city border but will not make connections until i am ready to make my 'big' city. I do not want my rural uneducated Sims running off to the city next door to work. Keeping them as unwilling farms hands.     They don't complain too much and are more than happy to pick broccoli until this Mayor decides it is time to give them a chance for a better life (sometime later in the game). 



Now here is a curiosity question for you. I am wondering how you gathered so much money with so few residents? I take note that the desirability has formed a semi circle. As if something has been plopped that is causing land value to go up???

[Unassigned]

Thanks to both RippleJet and jmyers2043 for enlightening answers. I have now learned to use SC4Tools to inspect lots and the like (is it the best tool for that?) and hope I'm now much wiser as to where I went wrong.

That CSX Aldeburgh Library has "the same statistics as the Maxis Small Library" according to its readme. Well, yes except for the "School EQ Boost" value of 24, slightly more than the 0.3 value of the small Maxis one. As the Effectiveness vs. Average Age profiles for the two libraries are identical the Aldeburgh Library provides a very high EQ indeed (I will be PM'ing the uploader asking to have either the readme or preferably the lot updated).

...whether this was the first city in a new region...

Now here is a curiosity question for you. I am wondering how you gathered so much money with so few residents? I take note that the desirability has formed a semi circle. As if something has been plopped that is causing land value to go up???

It is the first and for now the only city in the region except some of the other tiles have city names and bits of rail on them.

The money came from stardog13's Super Cash Park, which also has some landmark effect. The Cash Park was only there for less than two months so I believe this is negligible. Yes, I cheat with money. So do many RL mayors in Denmark. Perhaps it is different in other bits of the world.

As for the land value issue, the Small German Church is a Landmark and has a Mayor Rating Effect of 10 with a 256 radius. As it is also located near the center of the semi circle I guess the church is what made land values soar.



However I found some more oddities (ie suspected unbalancedness) while playing with the SC4Tools. If these had significant influence on the land values I think the high value area would have another shape due to placement. I'll list them anyway and hope to be enlightened in case I'm mistaken.

The Wild West Doctors Office has a Hospital HQ Boost of 50 whereas Maxis hospitals and clinics have that value at 11.52. Looks strange to me though I don't know the effects of this value.

Delta The Hang Glider Club have "Demand Satisfied" values of R-$ 0, R-$$ 3000, R-$$$ 5000. Aren't these very large values? This lot also has mayor rating & LM effects according to its readme, though SC4Tools do not report them.

With this tile I did not want to use cheats other than the cash one. My inspiration is villages and landscapes I've seen in the Alsace and in the bit of France which lies east of the Rhône. I bet you I could find an agricultural village up in a valley, with a bit of tourism and a satellite suburb somewhere in the vicinity of Strasbourg or Colmar. I was looking for civics buildings which would fit in, low capacity, high radius preferred. And that church simply was the one I found which fitted in the best. It is beautiful and suits the setting.

I am btw using BSC farms only, think I have them all except those that require CAM, so I use a lot of jmyers' work and am hoping to see more of his farms grow once I get my tile back on track.

PS: It seems that the SC4Tools will report either Mayor Rating Effect or Landmark Effect but not both at the same time even when both apply according to other info (eg try info-clicking a 3x1 BSC trail).

[RippleJet]

Well, yes except for the "School EQ Boost" value of 24, slightly more than the 0.3 value of the small Maxis one.

That is an unfortunate result of Maxis PIM, giving the same School EQ Boost to all educational buildings.
This will not be the case with the X Tool. Thus, there would indeed be a need to recompute quite a number of custom libraries...

The Wild West Doctors Office has a Hospital HQ Boost of 50 whereas Maxis hospitals and clinics have that value at 11.52. Looks strange to me though I don't know the effects of this value.

Maxis PIM does assign a Hospital HQ Boost of 11.52.
Thus, this value has been given on purpose. I hope it was mentioned in the readme...

Delta The Hang Glider Club have "Demand Satisfied" values of R-$ 0, R-$$ 3000, R-$$$ 5000. Aren't these very large values?

Not really. Those are residential CAP relieves.
E.g. the ingame House of Worship has a R§§ CAP relief of 5,000.

[mthdscrd]

Maybe you would consider using the commercial/reward farms as well, to allow for the look and feel of a rural community while adjusting to different demands?  A few days ago I pluged in a bunch of the BSC's team ( i think it was their's-dont quote me) reward farms and they both play and look great...

[Unassigned]

Heh, mthdscrd, BSC farming rewards is the focus of today's download spree, I got a bunch already and am almost done, just need to get to the bottom of a couple of prerequisite chains (am trying just now to locate the Estado del Vlakhaas and the Palazzo Bufalini prereqs).

[BarbyW]

Estado del Vlakhaas
Palazzo Bufalini

[Unassigned]

Thank you, BarbyW ! Though I already did find them and am just finishing my install fest, DatPacker running now. Then we shall see if there are any brown boxes 

[frdrcklim]

There are three things that kill off farm demand:

1. Education
Your city EQ level needs to stay below 50.
Otherwise your sims are becoming too bright and won't be working in farms anymore.

2. Traffic
Heavy traffic (and air pollution) reduces farm demand.
Note also that through traffic passing this city may contribute to the traffic volume.

3. Other jobs
The farming CAP is based on the sum of all other jobs in your city. The initial farming CAP is 30,000.
As soon as CO§§+CO§§§+CS§+CS§§+CS§§§+ID+IM+IHT becomes close to 30,000, the farming demand will disappear.

That's kind'a disappointing. I had a hunch it my farms no longer had demand because of the good things I put in the city but this confirms it. It is sad . Just because your sims are so smart doesn't mean they no longer care about farming anymore. There's still a certain someone out there that's got to care about farming. You just got to wonder that your city is growing so big but your farms stay the same. No wonder we have food crunch or something.

Anyway is there a modd or sumthing that allows us to have farms?

[jmyers2043]

Hello frdrcklim

is there a modd or sumthing that allows us to have farms?

You don't need a mod. Just do things that low wealth Sims like. Such as, no schools, no library, no police, no parks, no hospitals. Only use water to keep your industry and commercial buildings happy. Your low wealth sims like to work at farm jobs and dirty industry. And they don't complain. There is one thing to remember. Low wealth Sims (like all other Sims) do not like garbage so don't neglect trash pick up as that is one city service that you will need to provide regardless of whether you're making a rural or urban setting. Only build a fire house when you have to put out a fire. By the way - a benefit is that you'll have money galore because you'll not be spending it for schools, colleges, etc. . . ..

I know. It is contrary to what the most of us want to do as benevolent mayors. And it doesn't make for a pretty, gleaming high rise cityscape. But I like to think that it is only temporary. Building my farm/rural cities before making my big mega city.

[Unassigned]

Hi frdrcklim.

Following the excellent advise given by the folks posting in this thread I have been farming away happily for about a week. Farming is indeed perfectly possible without mods (NAM excepted)...I now have about 45 km² of (grown) farmland in my region using only BSC farms and all the farm-related BSC rewards I could get my hands on. Oh, and the BLS Rural Station is close to indispensable, merci beaucoup to BarbyW for that one!

On a 4x4 "farming community" tile I tend to have a pop of approximately 25000 at the time when there is no more room for farms, an EQ of 50 - 80 (I-R demand stays up even at 80, perhaps due to me playing at "Easy"), about half of the workforce work on farms, most of the rest in commercial. There is almost no non-farming industry except for rewards buildings.

Thanks a lot again to all of you.

[Colyn]

I did the Alderburgh for my specific playing style ... at the stage of design I was playing in mostly mountains where population densities were very low and only small clusters of housing could be built.

Many of my creations were done for specific playing conditions. I have done a number of 1x1 2x1 and 2x2 Civic and utility lots specific for the mountains. If you are playing on low density mountains then the number of Sims in the effect radius of a building is low and not too obvious.

I did a number of police stations, schools and the 911 Rural Rescue center that were designed to use in large farming cities where these buildings have a wide coverage.

I also did a number super Cop Shops to help contain crime in high density cities. This is the beauty of Custom Lots ... you make them suit your playing style. If all custom lots are 100% on par with every Maxis Stat then what is the use ... we will then all be forced to play according to specific play style dictated by the numbers

Have fun.

[Unassigned]

The Aldeburgh works fine for me now I understand how and when to use it. I like it, thank you for uploading this. My only issue is with that bit in the readme about the Aldeburgh having the same stats as the Maxis Small Library, that is misleading IMO.