MML Modification Request

[tamorr]

It is not exactly something new, but I hope this is the correct place to ask. I was wondering if I could append a couple lots(Building exemplars) to an already existing MML. I wanted to add:

BRT Avenue Bridge for PEG Streams Kit II
&
MBEAR Villa Foscari for PEG Pond Kit II

   Each to their respective MML files. Plus basically merging the two MMLs together, one with just a Basic merge consisting of both Stream & Pond kit II Lots, and the other with the two lots above appended. That would total 4 files, done this way to suite what ever play style a player has. Mainly what I am asking is if it is ok to upload such a file to STEX, as the original was included within the BSC MML Mod by Andreas Roth. I am seeing if it is ok to append/modify those lots to include the above files and make a merged one to be uploaded.
   This way the players would be able to have a choice of those specific MMLs with the additions I wanted to make,  even if it is minor ones. That is why I am asking out of respect of the original creator/Modder of those lots.
Thank you for your time.

[Andreas]

Well, as the creator of the original MML files for PEG's Pond and Stream kit, I guess I'm in charge here. While I like your idea to provide a method that suits various individual playing styles, I fear that things might get a bit too complicated after all. There are always a few users that "carve" their plugins folder to their very specific likings, but usually, those are also experienced users how know at least some basic modding steps. I provided my BSC MML upload with a readme file that covers the basics of creating MML files, that means people who are interested in this matter can do the necessary steps on their own.

Another thing to consider is that both the BRT and the MBear lots are part of a series of lots that were created by the BSC in order to provide a specific building set, and while I haven't checked them personally, I believe they might be placed in different menues or at least different menu positions than PEG's set. While this is easy to "fix" in a n MML lot since you create a modified copy of the building exemplar file anyway, it doesn't really make sense to me, as someone who wants to use the MBEAR Villa Foscari, for instance, together with other MBEAR lots, so it would be more logical to group those to a new MML set. The same goes for the BRT bridge; IIRC, there are various other BRT bridges, so grouping them together, rather than with PEG's set, makes more sense to me.

I don't mind if people take my work, and make some modifications, but I'm always careful when it comes to re-distributing those, as people might mix up them with the original work, creating all kinds of support issues. For modified lots and such, which usually get a new ID anyway, it's not much of a problem, but esp. more complex mods could cause a problematic situation. I'm not sure if the variety of sets is easy enough to understand for the beginner, and typically, the large part of the STEX users are rather novice users when it comes to more elaborated mods. Therefore, I wouldn't recommend to proceed that way.

[tamorr]

  Yeah definately a good point. I've actaully checked and all those lots are in the same Menu. The parks menu. The reason I mentioned it is the solid fact that I like to group MMLs a certain way... And since both lots are for the Pond/Stream set by PEG, I like to group it together as that is what makes sense to me. As you wouldn't use the BRT Avenue Lot anywhere else except on the PEG Stream. In that set all the lots are separate, so the one for the Stream Kit in my oppinion should be grouped with the stream kit anyway, Well MML wise. While the others of that set even though it might be a good idea to group them together as all being BRT Avenue Lots, it is better to have certain Lots that were made for other things grouped together...
   I like to have all things keyed to one MML that belongs to the group, like say the SG Canals. There are many Lots that are made for them, and it would not make sense to plop one of those lots with SG Canals running along side it without the SG Canals even installed. So in that sense having all the things that have SG Canal along it would be good to have in one MML. That is the way I play. I like to group by type of lot. As I had planned to Append to that MML as well all the lots that have those Canals along it. Those that don't wouldn't even be considered being put into it.
   I am definately not a novice to modding, as I've modded a few things already. Plus I have experience in modding a few other games, but not to the degree that I could with SC4. eg. Warcraft series, Civilization III, RPG Maker Series, and a couple others. I actually ended up following a tutorial by Miffth, I think is the name, to make the ones that I have already released on STEX that where basically updated versions of the PEG CDK3/OWW2 and ones for CSK 1 & 2. That would be the files in my Tamorr's MMLs on STEX.
   Thank you. I definately give credit to all those contributors that any of my lots referance. I believe I will upload at least the merged one, and the updated ones so even though it is only two that is being appended, that means two less icons in the menu. I started making MMLs for personal use a while back, mainly to cut down all those lots in each menu that is chunk full of them, like the parks and seaport menu. I have one for the entire ASC that I personally use that I made for that purpose, as well working on a few others. I believe I for the most part got 8 done, a couple of which I mentioned above that I released.
  A couple others that I made were: One for CAL's Canal, and one for I believe something one of your team members of SFBT Made, The Sand Path MML I basically merged the Wealth Parks into it, that way when I want to lay down any piece that are part of the four parks from SFBT team, all I'd have to do is plop one Lot and wait awhile. Mind you I did make all these for my personal use and well wouldn't mind sharing them if any are needed or wanted by anyone.
   Yeah I tend to be an organised person when it comes to what the MML includes or covers, I'd like it to be what similarities as a whole would be used together. Like parks with parks, paricular canals and custom extras to be with only that particular Canal Type and extras. I am sorry if I have a tendancy to repeat myself a lot and ramble a little, it is just the way I am. If my MMLs do have a conflict with another MML I would definately state so in my readme, even though it is unlikely that would happen, since I do my best to know what is in all the MMLs currently out there. Or well I try. That was I don't end up making one that already exists for a particular set.
   Anyways Thankyou for your time and Approval, as well the help you gave.

[BarbyW]

I understood Andreas' reply to be basically saying that you can do things for your personal use but that they should not be distributed as they may cause confusion. I think you should check again with Andreas before releasing any modifications to his sets.
I am also not happy with the two lots you mentioned being added to MMLs. Both are in my care and both should stay with the other options available - ie the bridges all together and the Villa Foscari all together as there are 4 options for ones by canals as well as the original reward lot. It doesn't make sense to me to include them with the Peg Ponds stuff as they are only using the ponds and not part of the set.

[Diggis]

Tamorr, I think you need to read Andreas's post again:

I don't mind if people take my work, and make some modifications, but I'm always careful when it comes to re-distributing those, as people might mix up them with the original work, creating all kinds of support issues. For modified lots and such, which usually get a new ID anyway, it's not much of a problem, but esp. more complex mods could cause a problematic situation. I'm not sure if the variety of sets is easy enough to understand for the beginner, and typically, the large part of the STEX users are rather novice users when it comes to more elaborated mods. Therefore, I wouldn't recommend to proceed that way.

as you have said:

   Anyways Thankyou for your time and Approval, as well the help you gave.

And also this at another site with regard to these lots:

On another note I have the ok to upload the modified lots mentioned.  

Andreas's post above basically says No, so I wouldn't recommend going ahead with this.

[Andreas]

I understood Andreas' reply to be basically saying that you can do things for your personal use but that they should not be distributed as they may cause confusion.

Yes, that's what I meant. Feel free to use the modified sets for your personal use, or maybe send them to a few users who are interested in private, but an upload to the STEX might cause some support issues that I'd rather like to avoid.

[tamorr]

Alright.... I understand now. Hmm.. Athough like I said before it doesn't make sense to me to group the PEG avenue with the other avenue as it makes it harder to decifer which one I am selecting. That is why I group things as Canal stuff go with a particular canal that way, stuff for it would show up when I want to lay that particular canal/water transit type. It's just the way I organize things to but have things to plop with what they were made for.

  To me having several different version of one lot for different Canals is almost confusing as I would have to hover over it just to find out which canal it belongs to in some cases. With the way I do it, it would only show when I have that particular MML ploped hence less confusing to me... But I do understand where you are coming from... I won't release then. And only if requested, I'll send to those users. Thanks for the interpretation and clearing up a few things all. That is definately well appreciated.
   And sorry for my confusion I had, Enlish might be my primary language but grammer wise I am not so well... The interpretation part that is... Anyways I'll continue to make for my personal use at least, as that is why I asked in the first place, to make sure it was ok or not. Since it is not ok to upload then I won't. Thankyou for your time.