• Welcome to SC4 Devotion Forum Archives.

Three Rivers Region

Started by dedgren, December 20, 2006, 07:57:49 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shadow Assassin

Deja vu.

I've seen this post before... :P

Still a good one, nonetheless.

[edit] Just wondering: did you ever reply to [this post] a while ago? I didn't find out what you had thought about it...
New Horizons Productions
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dedgren ♦ dmscopio ♦ Ennedi
emilin ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ papab2000
Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
See my uploads on the LEX!


Well, I hope you don't mind that I'm posting here again. I would rather like to become a 3RR regular.  #stsfd·

I was looking at the site statistics (available here -> click!) when I noticed the following:

My affinity for statistics is only surpassed by yours, but I'm digressing (yet again :P)...

It appears that 3RR (as of 13:00 / 1 PM SAST (UTC / GMT +2), 28 January 2006) is the most popular non-forum game thread, the most viewed thread, and member dedgren is also the third most online user.  :D

I would like to congratulate you on your MD's performance!  &apls &apls

Anyway, looking forward to the next update.

New Horizons Productions
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dedgren ♦ dmscopio ♦ Ennedi
emilin ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ papab2000
Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine


Quote from: Shadow Assassin on January 28, 2007, 03:05:07 AM
Deja vu.

I've seen this post before... :P

LOL yep. I have seen it before too.

Me trying to be a smartass I tried searching ST for this post. So what did I get:

Serves me right I guess.

Anyway, it is a good idea to post it again here.



Well, I get to be an Administrator today...


Let me start here first.  I was granted admin privileges by the management...

...thanks, jeroni!

...for a specific purpose- to move 3RR-ST off of its former home and over here to SC4D.  Certain aspects of the move require admin privileges.  We found, however, that the site software doesn't support having different flavors of Administrators.  You either are one or are not one.

Now, I'm a pretty easy-going guy, and I'd really like to spend my SC4 "quality-time" doing what I like doing best- in no particular order:

  •   Playing SC4
  •   Authoring this MD
  •   Enjoying the rest of what SC4D has to offer, and
  •   Interacting with my friends here- i.e.: you.

Note my very purposeful use of the word "friends."  You who take the time to stop by this MD, as far as I'm concerned, are such.  With friendship goes great privilege- If you ever come to Alaska, you now have a place to hang out, office facilities available if you would need them, camping equipment you're completely welcome to borrow and someone who's always willing to go to lunch, and even buys sometimes.

Even if you don't peruse 3RR, but are here on SC4D, you are a friend as well.  I also have many friends back at Simtropolis and over at Peg's site, although a large number oi them have done me the really great honor of checking out SC4D, and then sticking around and becoming members.

I really had a concern, then, because of my fear that becoming an Admin, or more specfically my having, every so often, to become involved in some troublesome situation in my capacity as an Admin, might run counter at some point to maintaining all those friendships.  In short, folks, I'm looking for you to understand that being an Administrator has the potential to impact the way that I might be dealing you from time to time.

As a person entrusted by jeroni with a degree of authority, I have a constant obligation to enforce the rules he has set out.  They are very straightforward and are plainly stated here [linkie].  Those are rules that, no matter what, I will always put first in having to deal with a situation.  A related point, or a corollary, if you will, is that it's not my job to make the rules, so I won't.  In other words, if I ever have to say, "that's a rule here" you will know that I'm not just being arbitrary, or making new rules up as I go along.

You, my friends, are obligated at SC4D to follow the rules just as I am obligated to follow the rules.  Nobody gets a "free pass" or special treatment here and nobody should expect one.  If I violate a rule, I know that my action, given that, is at my own peril.  I don't expect to be excused because my MD is popular or because jeroni has allowed me to become an Admin.  You should not expect to be excused, either, for whatever reason  I point out here that ignorance is no excuse.  When you became a member of this community, you implicitly agreed to observe its rules.  If you haven't read them, here's the link again [linkie].  Remember, just because they don't post the speed limit every 50 feet/16 meters doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Ohhh-kay...that was pretty heavy duty.  Let me move on to some suggestions that will help you help me keep our friendship intact.  These are also in no particular order, but they will give you some insight into how you can expect me to act in specific situations.

  • Act like the mature person of integrity that I know you are.

Notice I didn't say, "act like an adult."  That's because I've seen how a lot of adults act.  I further know that some of you are not adults...

...generally because you've let us know your age in a post- the quality of commenting is usually so high here that it rarely gives insight into anyone's age...

...and I think it is unfair to ask you to act like something that you are not.  Everyone, however, can exercise maturity and maintain integrity.  Acting maturely, by the way, does not mean you need to be deadly dull.  Be funny, be wry, use hyperbole, even be silly in moderation- but be those things in pursuit of a point, and you'll be fine.  Having integrity means such things as that you don't share the contents of private messages in "public," set up multiple user accounts and names or downrate a member's MD or forum topic just because he or she didn't reply to your last comment fast enough.

  • Do not complain about other members here or other SC4 fansites in public.

As for how you deal with other members- if you have an issue with one, at least up to a point, don't air that issue in public- PM the member and sort it out.  If you can't, get over it.  It's not like the member in question is in the cube next to you at work or in your carpool.  If the issue is one where that manner of dealing with it is not appropriate, PM me, or PM jeroni.  I, for one, have zero tolerance for people dealing with others in an abusive or mean manner.  It's just not appropriate here, ever.

As for other sites- It's common knowledge that I brought my content over here from Simtropolis because of certain issues I had with the way things were there.  That said, I will never complain about, make fun of or otherwise "bash" ST in my MD or in any other forum thread comment.  If I have anything to say other than something ranging from neutral to completely positive about ST or any other SC4 fansite, I will go there and say it.  Extending that to you- don't bring your issues with other SC4 sites here.  If you have a problem with one, go use its bandwidth to air your thoughts.  We really don't need gossip or sly innuendo about things going on at other sites here, either.  If you really just cannot restrain yourself, PM another member (not me, please) and share.  I will intervene, though, if I see that sort of thing working its way out into the forums.

Finally, although I could go on

  • Do not start or participate in "flaming."

Among the site rules, jeroni has one that sets out he expectation that you will be critical of the things you see and read here.  It is expected both that you have an opinion about what is here and that you will, if appropriate, voice it.  Being constructively critical, though, is the key.  Let me give you an example.  I can say about me, as a matter of true fact, "dedgren can't BAT for poop."  You, however, cannot.  You can only voice your opinion, based on what you see, in saying, "dedgren can't BAT for poop."  Now, my self-acknowledgement of this state of affairs helps me (in some small, sad way- as Dirty Harry [linkie] once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."), yours does not.  It's simply your assessment and potentially quite hurtful...

...on the other hand, you could say, "dedgren admits he can't BAT for poop," and be just fine.

If you are going, in the exercise of criticism, to point out a deficiency or flaw or weak point in something created or posted by a member, then, do it in a manner that leaves it clear that such is not an observation about the member him or herself, do it in language that demonstrates maturity (see above), and, if possible, propose what you think might address the issue you point out.  There is nothing that warms my cold little heart so much as to see one member completely out of nowhere helping another member sort something out or improve a skill.

* * *

Well, now I've got to do what I came here to do in the first place.  I need to let my friends Nik-nik and Serkanner know that the Simtroplis references (Nik's ST screenie and Serkanner saying I had made a wise choice to leave ST) they made in posts on my MD were not necessary, and that similar sorts of things in the future shouldn't be repeated.  I'll note that I'm doing this out in the open and that I will continue to do so in the future, so that everyone can see where I draw the line and so that there is no sense that I might be favoring anyone.

I have what I think is a great post in the pipeline and will thus close this one so as not to mix apples and oranges.


D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren


Hello Mr. Admin...   :satisfied:
Wow, you're becoming quite the big shot! I'm impressed! And all this from the barren wilderness of Alaska, were you can only dream of finding some decent poutine (forget McDonald's it's nothing, it would be like comparing Kool-Aid with a bottle of 1966 Chateau Gruau Larose!) but then again a chilled glassed of Cherry Kool-Aid on a hot summer day!!! Sorry I shouldn't talk about chilled, having seen the recent pics of your backyard!
But again I disgress and some admin might chastise me... yikes!  &mmm
I came here not to tlak about your nomination, which I approve by the way (some subtle sucking up here...), but rather to comment on something you said on your (very good.. no it's not sucking up I really think it was good!) where was I??? Oh yeah! your very good, was I saying, roadmaps monologue! you said and I quote "I'll never be a kid again..." weeelllll.... allow me to disagree, or rather to point out that you never ceased to be a kid at heart, and to support my argumentation your honor (sorry just couldn't resist!) I'll point out all the fine (OK OK that may be construed as sucking up) humor and banter that is present in all your post! Even the serious one you just made!
Anyhow we only have to look at your face (I saw your pics in the introduce yourself )forum! Anyone can see that the beard is only there to hide your kid face!!! and besides I never trusted bearded men! You should look at  my pic and you'll see how serious I look!

So to sum it up...none of this was really serious, I was just looking for a pretext to salute you and to wish you a very good week my friend!

Take care


If you have a closed mind, do the same with your mouth


So, after my last post I feel like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde [linkie]...

3RR reached 300 comments this morning at a little before 3:00 a.m. Alaska Time (GMT-9).  We're now just a bit into our second month at SC4D and we're running well ahead of the rate of comments we had during the same initial period as 3RR-ST, where it took us just under four months to reach that point.  So thanks very much to you- after all, they're your comments, and I know that there are many other great places here to spend your time.

An aside- for those of you who continue to read but not comment, thanks so much as well.  We've seen over 1,000 page views a week the past two weeks.  That's about one every 10 minutes...24/7!  It is very rare for me to stop by and not see a guest or two, sometimes three, up on the little "who's here" bar. Lurk if you will, it's OK by me, but I'd be pleased enough if you'd become a member to split the cost of joining up with you...

So who got us to our 300th post?  Why, it was none other than my old friend Shadow_Assassin, that mad genius CJer and map-maker from the land Down Under [linkie].  Shadow first posted on 3RR-ST in March of last year and has been back regularly ever since, always offering razor-keen insight and helpful info. Well- welcome, Shadow, to the ranks of those who've become a part of the 3RR landscape

Shadow Canyon is in the northeast quad of Curtiss Township

and has the upper stretches of the Little Leaf River flowing through it.  You can be assured that it's beautiful- I've been there.  So, 'grats, my friend.  I look forward to many more comments from you, and will be answering the several questions you have pending shortly.

* * *

Another honoree is our good friend Stephen (exodus101), who gave us the straight poop on Bilbo and the Stone Trolls [linkie] after I'd mistakenly said it was Frodo.

I'm a huge Tolkien [linkie] fan- I still can't believe I got that wrong...

Anyway, as I noted here [linkie], it's time to induct Stephen into that select group of 3RR Regulars who have caught me out on some point...Stephen, in recognition of your service to the cause you are now designated and forever shall be a duly-appointed 3RR Fact Checker.  You are further honored by designation of this waterfall on Concho Creek

in the northwest quad of Concho Township

as Exodus Falls.  3RRDOT's posted signs

and everything.  Congratulations, and thanks for being a part of Three Rivers Region.

* * *

As I developed and fleshed-out in my head the idea of Exodus Falls, I thought I'd give you a brief look at the state of 3RR terraforming these days.  The following took about 45 minutes, not counting the time needd to shoot and prepare the in-process pics.

I first dug a small canyon extending Concho Creek up into the rising land in the north of the quad along its western border.  I terminated this canyon at the base of a "squared-off" gridsquare that will be where the waterfall lot is placed.


Please note I've not yet installed a rock mod.  I'm building my "Plugins" folder very, very deliberately.


There's the waterfall.  It's the narrowest one of my three waterfall lots.  They are no longer available on the STEX- it may be another week or so before they are on the LEX here.

We'll do a little "natural" grading for the creekbed path at the top of the falls.  If you can remember that water flows downhill, you'll do alright.


This pic, btw, is about as heavily "photoshopped" as things get in 3RR.  While I love the stuff other folks add, I've just never done that myself...

...but see here [linkie]...heh!

In other words, if you see a landscape shot here, that's how it looked in the game (unless there's an obvious arrow on it or something).

There's one of my rapids lots (same deal on the STEX and LEX as the waterfalls) plopped at the top of the falls.


Here's a bit of brtim2's Edmonton ploppable water [linkie] to clean up the base of the falls.


The creek and canyon below the falls.  We'll be detailing this area in Part 2 of this post.


Here's some leveling of the creekbed upstream of the waterfall in preparation for the placement of ploppable water.  We'll use John's (Darmok) "road tile" technique explained so well over in Anduin Valley Revisited [linkie].


One of the biggest bars to decent looking plopped streams, in my view, is that folks just drop them on flat ground and expect that they'll look OK.  The slight valley gives the eye on of the visual cues it needs to see a realistic waterway.

We'll remove a few of the road tiles to make spaces to plop some more rapids lots.  Again, the eye sees rapids- the brain perceives water flowing downstream and thus downhill.


Here come those lots.  There's four different ones, so repetition can be avoided.


Here's the stream plopped in.


We'll first drop a few of jeronij's large boulders along our plopped stream.  These, like the waterfalls and rapids, are in transition between the STEX and the LEX.  If you have them, they'll show up in your "Mayor Mode" (no longer appropriately named) "Plant Flora" submenu.


Only a few of these are needed.


Next, we'll use the smaller jeronij plop boulders.


These are also placed sparingly.


A few large Maxis plop rocks go in next.  These can be obtained from the STEX here [linkie].


They are plopped to break up the "little piles" effect of the smaller jeronij rocks.


I really think a lot of making things look more natural is breaking up regular or repetitive patterns.  A wider variety of plops would help, and I have got my thinking cap on about this.

We'll sprinkle on some small Maxis rocks, which you get with the same DL as the larger ones'


I spread these back from the stream banks into where the woods will go.  Remember, though, that these are not gravel- at a level three view that bright speck of a boulder, which is at least one pixel across, is not any smaller than 18"/.3 meters in any x or y dimension...

...Thank you, Mr. Hawking [linkie]...


One of the currently available additional plops are cycledogg's fallen logs, which can be downloaded here [linkie] as part of the BSC CP PropPack Vol02.  These also install onto your"Plant Flora" submenu.


These are a matter of taste.  They are a bit oversize and uniform and brown, in my opinion, but are better than any available alternative.  Anyone writing down a list of to-dos could write down on it approaching c.p. on bended knee and seeing if he'd be willing to revisit these a bit at some point.


Now come the trees.  As I have written elsewhere, I use cycledogg's "subalpine fir" "Mayor Mode" trees along all rivers, streams and lakeshores except for those immediately adjacent to Hotham Inlet, where I use his "shore pines."

Here's the first pass at plopping the firs.


Some ploppable seasonal deciduous trees follow.


And a little final fill-in work completes the scene.


We'll back out to "view level 3" to look at the area we just finished working on...


...and close up with some seasonal eye candy.






So, next up are the continued "We've got Mail..." and Part 2 of this post, coming to you...

...later.  Here's to a great week ahead!


Edit: (1-29-07 6:50 a.m. AST  GMT-9)  Typos and flow.

The troll statues are from a catalog at http://www.lotrfanshop.com/lotrshop/.  Looks like nice stuff, if you're up for a bust of an orc in your hallway...
D. Edgren

Please call me David...

Three Rivers Region- A collaborative development of the SC4 community
The 3RR Quick Finder [linkie]

I aten't dead.  —  R.I.P. Granny Weatherwax

Skype: davidredgren


Fantastic! You can learn a lot from TRR! &apls &apls


     Congrats on the admin stuff.    Jeronij knows a talented individual when he sees one.    Maybe someday I'll take you up on that visit to Alaska statement.   As you are probably aware I have always wanted to go there.   I like that you are revisiting the old tutorials that first drew me into 3RR.     I learn something new everytime you post.     Looking forward to the rest of the post.     I'm on vacation (holiday for those mates from downunder) all this week so I'll most likely be around more than normal. 


    So David what do you think of the Silmarillion linkie   I really don't have a clue about it but my GF teaches Tolkien one of the local universities here.     Yup,  she's a doctor!   wink wink nudge nudge know what I mean, eh?  linkie  BTW  She thought the trolls were a cute touch.

They say that the memory is the second thing that goes....
...dang , I wish I could remember the first.
WooHoo made Councilman - 05 FEB 07 Yipee made Mayor - 13 MAR 07 Hip Hip Hooray made Governor - 04 AUG 07 Rock On made Senator - 15 MAR 09


Hey David,

First off - WOW!!  I'm so flattered!  I never knew that pointing out an honest and simple error would garner me a place in the 3RR world.  My wife will be delighted to know that my Tolkien fixation has finally "paid off!"  Nonetheless, I am very grateful in a special way because of my eternal fascination with waterfalls.  I was in the North Carolina mountains just last August traipsing through the woods searching for a few secluded falls. 

As for the post - Super!  I'll undoubtedly use it ASAP to make my own falls (and perhaps dub them something" dedgrenish").  I've always loved your tutorial posts and this one certainly speaks to your various talents.

Once again thanks for the great honor and the more than excellent posts!



First, congratulations to Shadow and Exodus101 for their new claims to fame. Not bad landmarks either. Secondly, in the photo of Exodus falls, is that a footpath behind the falls about 1/2 way up on the left? If it is, then that is a fairly spectacular drop. Your detailed description of the process of constructing the creek is right up there with your usual tutorials (and I assume it will continue to be so as it's not done as I write this). I think that, even though you have done other super-detailing tutorials, this one has something more that I can't quite put my finger on. Whatever it is, I look forward to more of it and I'll blather on about that later.


First, let me extend my congratulations on being appointed an Administrator. The even-handed and diplomatic way you handled the small situation you had to deal with is proof that you shall make a good one! Also, I'd like to congratulate Shadow Assassin and Exodus101 and welcome them into the "3RR Landscape Club."

And the update is great, too! I'm glad to see another terraforming tutorial like the older 3RR ones, they're always a source of knowledge and inspiration. I've toiled with the ploppable water for hours and I cannot seem to get it to look even close to as realistic as you've managed to do in 45 minutes! Your patience and skill are astounding. As always, I'll be awaiting the next update...

Take care,



Congratulations! Mostly for reaching 300 comments in record time, but also for being appointed admin. I realy hope it doesn't take up to much of your time, because 3RR seems to really be taking shape right now.

Thank you, also, for the tutorial on plop water. Terraforming is one of the hardest parts of this game (at least to me) and I am huge fan of the way you go about it. And it's very much appriciated that you take the time to teach us mortals. :thumbsup:

BlackwaterEmil's inn
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio ♦ dedgren
♦ Emilin ♦ Ennedi ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦
papab2000 ♦ Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine


Great tutorial David!!! Thank you very much for your helpful posts!!

just a question tough.... here [Linkie]

you awarded me with my

but you didn't tell me where it was on the map....  $%Grinno$%


Congrats on your promotion to Admin!  &apls  I am glad you have revisited ploppable water with a larger waterfall, looks fabulous. Now if I could get mine to look like that... 

*stamps feet and jumps up and down*   :'(

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
A. Einstein


Wonderful pictures :thumbsup: Great river :thumbsup:


Nice work David, it's always nice to review old stuff and I think the re-make it's better than the original. I would also show some work on the bed of the waterfall, and please, load some rock mod, soon.

Like Gaston said, you might get some visits next winter ;)


Thats for sure Rayden about the visit i always wanted to learn to snow ski lol
Seriously though David what another ripper of a tutorial mate. You make it look so easy. Congratulations on becoming a Admin. Being in a position like that needs people with alot of maturity, level headedness and respect for others which is what you possess. You are a deadly bloke mate and people who have the pleasure in knowing you personally are very fortunate. I also enjoyed the sequel to the rural lands division very interesting.
Catch ya mate
Strong,Black and deadly
My brothers keeper


First of all I would like to say that if anyone deserves, or is able to handle the responsibilities and all that which comes with adminstratorship / admin credentials, I do believe that it would be you.  :thumbsup:

Second of all, thank you very much for that "tutorial." It will definitely come in handy in Elytheria Novo as I am always tempted to just plop streams on level terrain.  &mmm The stream looks great though, and I can't wait for those lots to be released.


New Horizons Productions
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dedgren ♦ dmscopio ♦ Ennedi
emilin ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ papab2000
Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine


Hi David,

Long time no see. I have been away from anything related to SC4 for six months due to some really serious RL problems but I am slowly getting back. So much to catch up with after this long absence. I was so thrilled to see Three Rivers Region over here and want to congratulate you on becoming Admin. It seemed just apporpriate to post my first post at SC4D here. I will try to catch up on 3RR as soon as I can because I enjoy your style and your tutorials and I need some inspiration now that I'm thinking of getting back to playing again.

Take care,
"I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work"  Thomas Alva Edison

Alek King of SC4