Cam problem

[travismking]

so, i started a new region, start a city, and as soon as i start thousands of R$$ sims start moving in and cant find jobs, so they abandon, anyone know what can be causing this? the demand for R$ is already 24000, and commercial and industrial is 'normal'.  This is the second region thats done this, both started when i installed CAM, no development in either.  Ive attached a picture so maybe you can see whats going on. BTW i have merged simcity1.dat with the cam thing like the other thread said.

[RippleJet]

Could you provide a snapshot of the Census Repository Facility's query report of this city?

[travismking]

sure, as expected the demand for jobs is low because of there being about the same amount of jobs as people,but why are there the WRONG TYPE of people :p

[xxdita]

I don't see a problem with the R$$ moving in, because there the WF drives are there already. I think the problem is that they just can't get to work maybe? Which traffic simulator are you using?

[travismking]

using NAM simulator Z high capacity, commute times average 0.3 minutes so i dont think this is the problem ;p all the roads are still green in traffic view

[xxdita]

It doesn't have to be a congestion problem for it to be traffic sim related though. Try doing a few route queries on your R$$'s that haven't abandoned and see where they're going to. You may need to adjust your traffic patterns a bit, or at least provide bus service.

[travismking]

the problem i see is, ive played this game for 5 years, and never had a problem like this before, i wouldnt think a city of 4k people would need bus service yet.  And the fact that it did it in two separate brand new regions is odd too, also the demand seems rediculous to me, particularly for R$.  Also most of the mid wealth sims goto the commercial areas along the avenues and the hospital which is behind the budget popup in the first pic i posted, the r$ mostly goto the industrial areas, and they seem to be picking normal paths.

[cogeo]

Maybe you don't have enough commercial zones, of fairly (at least) high land value, or properly sized. I mostly use 2x3 initially, they split but will be combined again later, and finally form 4x3 lots, which give you 400-500 jobs for medium density, or more than 1000 (or more) for high density. However, with an EQ of only 32, you are not likely to get any worthy CO$$ and CO$$$ development. Build more education facilities and wait until EQ rises enough. Better show us your demand bars too.

[travismking]

even if I have no commercial demand and there are empty commercial zones? sorry didnt see the thing at the bottom about the demand bars, also, this all started as soon as i placed the first school everything went to R$$

[RippleJet]

The R$ demand is quite normal and quite correct.
It's not 24,000 (or 18,000) as the ingame demand graph fools you to believe.
As seen from the Census Repository Facility it's currently 12,235.

You've currently got 4,251 jobs in your city.
Since your HQ is still rather low, the workforce in relation to the population is just 41.6% (it will go up to 60% if you get your HQ up to 200).
Thus, in order to have a workforce of 4,251, you'd currently need a population of 10,217, and a residential capacity quite a lot higher than this.

If you don't want R$$ to move in yet, I'd simply raise their taxes.

[travismking]

Its not that i dont want them to move in, if they wanna move in fine, but why would they move in without having jobs is what im trying to figure out, I didnt have problems like this before installing CAM so im thinking maybe i have a mod or something causing it to happen, but i have nothing but BATs, cam and nam in my plugins now

[RippleJet]

Its not that i dont want them to move in, if they wanna move in fine, but why would they move in without having jobs is what im trying to figure out

The demand for R$$ is negative. Thus, they shouldn't move in.
However, the demand can be increased by desirability factors.

Thus, if you make your residential neighbourhood really attractive, R$$ will move in nevertheless.
The easiest way to lower R$$ desirability is to increase their taxes.

[travismking]

mid wealth demand is going crazy right now, up to 6000 (on maxis graph anyway) then negative then back up to 5000 then negative again as more houses are dilapidated then restored etc... they say abandoned due to commute time, but i dont see how commute time should be an issue in this city

[travismking]

it seems as i run the simulator (been 20 game years now) its working itself out, less and less No job zots every year, maybe too much R$$ came in too fast (it was 3 game months, after i plopped first elementary schools every zone in the city went R$$ or R$$$) and they didnt have enough jobs, it seems to be working itself out now

[jmyers2043]

I can't tell. Are the bulk of those homes abandonded or have they delapidated from R$$ to R$ ??

One thing that causes me to wonder is because there is a significant demand for farm jobs. EQ is low which is also condusive to R$ living. As if there are a large number of R$ residents in the community.

A couple of imbalances to consider. There are 5,788 looking for 3,015 industrial jobs. R$ Sims like to work in I-AG, I-D, and CS$. A small number of R$$ will work on a farm but the precentage is much lower (can't recall of the top) The other thing is the 631 Sims applying for 427 manufacturing jobs. I think it would be safe to rezone a small section of ID property to IM ... and as there is a surplus of ID jobs you can do so without being in too much danger of causing joblessness.

Nevertheless, there is huge demand for R$. But the first residents to move in were R$$. Not finding sutiable jobs they left town and their homes either abandonded or R$ moved in. Rember!! Demand is regional. The things I do in one city will affect others. I assume that there is fire, police, schools, and maybe health facilities in the community. Those things along with a park will encourage R$$ to move in. And if there is some demand (caused by regional forces) R$$ will move into town probably before the local economy can support them.

You can slow the process by not making road or rail connections at the beginning. Basically, making that city a region in and of itself until you connect later, when things are running smoothly, and all the R$ Sims are employed. The upturn toward should be more gradual and easier to manage.

I'd say to zone some farms. I am puzzled why there is a 12% I-R cap (which indicates some farms) but there are 0 (zero) farm jobs which indicates to me the opposite. The R$ will eventually move out if they can't find jobs either.

[travismking]

it started off normally with all r$ and few R$$ moving in, then when i placed the hospital a few more R$$ moved in, when iplaced the schools and libraries the entire city went to R$$, this is a brand new region and this is the first city, so no regional issues, also i have placed bus stations as it now seems some R$ are abandoning due to "Commute time" when they worked right accross the street, i dont understand ... and they are dilapidated and then they go back to R$$ and then back to R$ etc...

[RippleJet]

Rember!! Demand is regional.

As far as I understand, this city isn't connected to SimNation yet though.

I am puzzled why there is a 12% I-R cap (which indicates some farms) but there are 0 (zero) farm jobs which indicates to me the opposite.

That's exactly as it shoud be, Jim!

IR capacity itself does not count to the I-R CAP.
That's instead the sum of R$, R$$, R$$$, CO$$, CO$$$, CS$$, CS$$$, ID, IM and IHT.

In this city those amount to 7,641.
The initial I-R CAP was 30,000, which is increased by another 30,000 thanks to the Census Repository Vault.
Thus: 7641/60000 = 0,12735 and truncated to 12%.

then when i placed the hospital a few more R$$ moved in, when iplaced the schools and libraries the entire city went to R$$

Plopping civic buildings also provides transient aura effect, which will increase desirability for R$$.

[travismking]

i think its not so much of a demand/workforce issue now as a commute issue, im having R$ now abandon due to commute time when they only travel 15 tiles to work... does the current CAM change anything with pathfinding and speeds or something? commute times average 0.3 minutes

edit: btw the nam simulator i use is NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_Z_High-Euro ... the euro promotes more mass transit usage iirc

edit again: i may have fixed it, the majority of the commercial jobs are on the avenue by the ferry, and these jobs werent able to be commuted to because there was no way for the sims to get to the other side of the avenue so i built a u turn loop. i think the abandonment was because the simulator saw those jobs and said "ok ill go work here", couldnt find a way home from work and then abandoned

[RippleJet]

edit again: i may have fixed it, the majority of the commercial jobs are on the avenue by the ferry, and these jobs werent able to be commuted to because there was no way for the sims to get to the other side of the avenue so i built a u turn loop. i think the abandonment was because the simulator saw those jobs and said "ok ill go work here", couldnt find a way home from work and then abandoned

That's happened to me as well...
E.g. an avenue that goes out of town does not provide any means of turning back into town,
unless there's an intersection somewhere before the border crossing.

[travismking]

seems to be fixed now, i just suck at network planning :p thanks for your help guys