new "real" Sim City in 2013

[jdenm8]

Reading the witeup, the response to the two questions did seem a bit arrogant, but it's probably something they're really not allowed to talk about and trying to point fun at that. I mean, I'm sure it would be a PR disaster if it came out that a franchise they haven't touched in nearly a decade suddenly had yearly obsolescence built into it.

They wouldn't know exactly what the future holds, but they'd have action plans for most eventualities. EA is in too precarious a position to do without them.

[mike3775]

Reading the witeup, the response to the two questions did seem a bit arrogant, but it's probably something they're really not allowed to talk about and trying to point fun at that. I mean, I'm sure it would be a PR disaster if it came out that a franchise they haven't touched in nearly a decade suddenly had yearly obsolescence built into it.

They wouldn't know exactly what the future holds, but they'd have action plans for most eventualities. EA is in too precarious a position to do without them.

In one of my business classes I took years ago to get my MBA, I was taught that if someone asked a question that you are not allowed to talk about, instead of avoiding the question, just answer "we are not allowed to discuss that" and say that line every single time that type of question is asked.  If that guy had said that fromt he get go, I am sure Dirk would have dropped the subject, but the way he answered, it opened him up to even more questions about it though.

I know that games are going that route to avoid piracy issues, and no matter how many times they say otherwise, that is the real reason they are doing it, because with them always online, they get authenticated, and if you have a pirated version of the game, you won't get authenticated and thus can't play.  But that really screws everyone who is honest.  Again, I like that I can install SC4 on my laptop, and take my laptop with me to school every day and play the game for an hour or two in between my classes if I feel like it, but with this new version, I can't even do that, because I would have to log onto the schools internet to just play a game, and the WiFi doesn't go that far into the parking lot for me to really be able to do it.  Then even at home, I can't play my game in my own backyard(I have a huge chunk of land that I own) because my wifi doesn't extend all the way across my property.  So I can't play the game sitting in the gazebo in the middle of my property just off the river that runs through my property either if I always have to be online. 

As far as the future goes, I see this game being a huge flop.  I hope it doesn't fail, but I also hope that maybe they will make another game like SC4, with a bunch of the stuff that this new version can do, with the same things that you can currently do with SC4.  I admit, the three level roads sounds interesting, being able to have a winding mountain road that is laid out easier than it is currently also is interesting, but unfortunately its a deal killer when you have the other things that are bad involved, like always online, very limited buildings with multiple paint schemes, the fact there are no farms, ruins any chance I will ever try this game

[RickD]

I have read on some games site that EA is enforcing a strict online strategy. Every game published by EA is required to have a multiplayer mode. I suspect that this whole collaborative play idea in sim city came from some higher level manager at EA who has no clue about the game.

[mike3775]

I have read on some games site that EA is enforcing a strict online strategy. Every game published by EA is required to have a multiplayer mode. I suspect that this whole collaborative play idea in sim city came from some higher level manager at EA who has no clue about the game.

I really wish I could find the article I read back in 2009, where EA and some other game company said they want to require an "always open internet connection" because it will prevent piracy from happening.  They also said multiplayer options as well, but I always found it funny for them to say they want to "enhance game play" with multiplayer, when for decades, they never needed to "enhance gameplay" automatically, they used to leave it up to the player to decide whether to go online or not, now the people have no choice.

I wonder how much game companies will have to pay if someone who has to always be online to play a game, gets a virus or malware installed on their PC from someone on their servers spreading it.  If I ended up with something, bet your behind, I am suing them for forcing me to always be online to play a solo game.

[whatevermind]

Thanks Haljackey for the link to Dirk's post. I dropped the majority of my thoughts over there. But a few things I thought I'd address over here instead.

I do miss the flood disaster - I don't know why they got rid of that one, but it was one of the more interesting, like the SC2K firestorms, for it's unpredictability and near helplessness to stop it.

As for the other old games, let's not forget the classic SimAnt as well. Some of those were odd games for sure - fascinating more for the idea that someone actually made a game on those topics than the actual enjoyment of gameplay in some cases.

Another topic that's been bounced around both here and at ST gets into the modability of the new game, especially the file formats we can expect to see. I don't see any reason why they couldn't continue to use DBPF files, since they're essentially just zip files, but I do think that we can expect most, if not all, of what's inside them to be different. Certainly the graphics will be new, and there's a good chance that the simulator files, even if not complex formats themselves, will be of some new format as well. And certainly there will be a handful of common formats, png for instance, tossed in too. The reality is we won't know until someone actually gets their hands on a copy of the game.

This also gets to another point of interest - namely, what files will you actually get with the game. I think we can expect the graphics to be locally installed - for the sake of bandwidth if nothing else. But it seems like they're keeping a pretty good lock on the game engine and possibly simulator files as well - which could mean we never see the likes of the current exemplars if they crunch all that server side and simply pass the results to your computer.  However, it took all of one day following release of SC4 for work to begin over at Simphoni on decoding the game, so I have faith we'll know pretty quickly just how much control we get over the game's files once it is released.

[NCGAIO]

I do not think the facts that made it possible to make changes in the way SC4 we know today will be repeated for the new Simcity at any level.

.... EA gave us complete permission to do any modifications that we want. In fact they cheered us on in person, and gave us as much info as they could without breaking NDA's or giving up company secrets. Several modders have been under Non disclosure agreement with EA specifically for the purpose of furthering file modifications, and a bunch of us (myself included) beta tested the BAT when it was being made..

source:Legal Status of Sim City 4 mods

This does not happen with the current guidelines to market  from EA.

Dirk was very polished in their impressions of the dependence of on-line in order to run the game!

- With respect to online is good to remember that there are also other market issues involved that go beyond of the supposed combat piracy!

   DRM portals x Windows 8. - Keep captive the users will be solution?

[xannepan]

After my initially mild enthusiastic reaction to the new game, I am beginning to have my doubts about it now. Essential for me is out ability to mod and create custom content to the same level as we have with SC4... I have my doubts that will happen :-(

The good thing is, that is has got me started BATting and modding for sc4 again, albeit with slow progress.

[mike3775]

I do not think the facts that made it possible to make changes in the way SC4 we know today will be repeated for the new Simcity at any level.

.... EA gave us complete permission to do any modifications that we want. In fact they cheered us on in person, and gave us as much info as they could without breaking NDA's or giving up company secrets. Several modders have been under Non disclosure agreement with EA specifically for the purpose of furthering file modifications, and a bunch of us (myself included) beta tested the BAT when it was being made..

source:Legal Status of Sim City 4 mods

This does not happen with the current guidelines to market  from EA.

Dirk was very polished in their impressions of the dependence of on-line in order to run the game!

- With respect to online is good to remember that there are also other market issues involved that go beyond of the supposed combat piracy!

   DRM portals x Windows 8. - Keep captive the users will be solution?

Yeah I have heard that as well as to why they want always online. 

[Monorail Master]

I would like to see more disasters occur in SC2013. Ones from previous Simcities, but revamped. As well as new disasters that haven't occured in the previous Simcity titles. The ones I'd like to see:

Returns:
Simcity 4's Train Derailment: Caused by low rail funding : Tram derailment = 25% chance of nearby building catching on fire, small section of tram track gets destroyed. Train derailment: 75% - 95% chance of causing multiple buildings to catch on fire or get destroyed, as well as a 10 - 20 tile stretch of track gets destroyed. Expect hospitals to be flooded with injured.

Simcity 3000's Acid Rain, caused by very high air pollution: Creates havoc in the city by destroying tram track/railroads, damages any type of building, industral buildings will be hit the hardest. Has a chance of 50% of completly destroying a building or transortation network just like in SC3000.

Simcity 4's Autosaurus Rex : The T-Rex made out of vehicles has managed to escape the stadium and is now wreaking havoc until it runs out of fuel.

New ones:

Dockside Mayhem: Container/Cargo Ship loses control and smashes into coastal buildings ranging from seaports, ferry terminals, to beachfront condos. Any building hit will get destroyed, 60% chance of fire, and bridge hit will suffer moderate to heavy damage. Players, or yourself, have to pickup the bill for bridge repairs. Inspired by several marintime accidents along the Mississippi River.

Freeway Fury (Yes, I know it's a crash junction on Burnout 3...): Car/truck crashes on freeway near the closest city. Crash severity is determined by freeway usage/traffic along several stretches, ranging from 1-car to a 10+ vehicle pileup. Crash likelyness is high along curved sections and interchanges. When the crash occurs, the section of freeway it occured on will close down for 5 mins - 45 mins based on how big the crash is. 5 minutes from like a Ferrari bursting into flames, or 45 minutes from a tanker truck bursting into flames and/or exploding. The crash will effect both freight traffic going from one city to another, as well as sims trying to go home/work. Inspired by anyone that's played Burnout 3 or Revenge's crash mode.

Power Blackout: Someone spilled crap onto the control panel, it shorted out, and it's lights out for the city and nearby areas until the power plant can be repaired.

Maxis seriously needs to add more disasters to SC2013. Just to add to the variety of the game because only 4 "big" disasters gives the impression of having not enough havoc. What can I say, I have ADD and when it kicks in I become easily bored. Disasters help keep me entertained and I'm sure others feel the same way as I.

[j-dub]

To be honest I don't know if I am a fan of that, I'm just going to give you my expereince of drop eveyrthing, and go to the disater, due to that competing city game on the Playstation (a graphically sharp city builder that also requires the connection to run single player) as soon as your city starts to burn, advisor phones you, you litterally have to stop what your doing from up top, and I was surprised, to see myself get halted from building management, and ground level and having to drive to to the fire, stop the truck, hop out of the truck, pickup the hose, and act fast enough and accurately on the trigger to soak out the blazing flames on specific blazing spots on the building's walls.

Since SC will be out after, I don't know if they should pick up on that whole your required to drop everything, because disasters are active. SC4, felt like there was a sandbox control, that I liked better. This thing on Playstation, I don't know if I want EA to take that route, but I don't want to go into too much details, of how it could turn out, at this point, it looks like EA's version has more to offer in the building aspect. The thing on Playstation don't even have traffic signals, and I swear the cars come right at you when your own PS network avatar is trying to run on foot.

[Reginasunrae]

I've been a member here for a while for the downloads but only just today registered for the forum. I came seeking some information and tripped over this thread.

I've been playing Sim games for what seems like umpteen years now (in reality it's more like about fourteen) and have spent many happy hours building cities in the different SimCity versions. Shoot, I even enjoy Societies occasionally when I don't want to get into anything too detailed (although have always been very glad I didn't rush right out to buy that one).

When I read about SC5 coming out I was cautiously excited. That lasted for about thirty minutes until I found out it was going to require an internet connection to be able to play it.

I can understand the appeal of multi-play and that could be a lot of fun. However, requiring an internet connection for single-player mode just doesn't sit well with me at all. TPTB can paint it any color they want but I know EA's reasoning behind it is because they think it will stop piracy. I think that every move EA has ever made to stop piracy has done nothing but continue their delusion that stopping it is even possible. I've been around in various gaming communities enough to know that if a person is bent on using an illegal copy of something they will find a way to do it.

Also, I've seen various people raise concerns over how long EA will be willing to maintain servers for multi-play. In my opinion this is a valid question. How many times in the past has EA started something to shut it down a short while later? If they do shut down the servers will they issue a patch to change the connection requirement by the game? Or will people be sitting there with a $60+ ($60+ because no doubt EA will release plenty of DLC) game they can't even load?

All EA has done with this is drive me, a potential customer, away. I resent having something I don't want forced on me because someone thinks otherwise I might steal their precious game. I'll continue playing SC4 despite its crashes on my Windows 7 computer because I can play it how I want and when I want.

[NCGAIO]

......  but I know EA's reasoning behind it is because they think it will stop piracy. I think that every move EA has ever made to stop piracy has done nothing but continue their delusion that stopping it is even possible.

As I said before,  EA decisions regarding product online go far beyond fighting piracy. Are also financial decisions ...

To better understand this reasons just need read  two articles .....

Elevation Partners - private equity

EA - Electronic Arts

" EA's earnings are marked by an ongoing difference between non-GAAP and GAAP accounting – which, for example, mandates deferrals of revenue related to services provided for online-enabled packaged goods and digital content. Consequently, EA's quarterly reports reflect hundreds of millions of dollars which, under GAAP accounting, are deferred for a period of months – then appear in the earnings over multiple quarters subsequent to the original sale. Other companies with significant online revenues face similar issues. This can make it extremely difficult to understand the company's GAAP profitability."

......   I've been around in various gaming communities enough to know that if a person is bent on using an illegal copy of something they will find a way to do it.

Certainly since hackers love a challenge ... but from the moment that you have to download part of the code to perform this becomes a little more difficult.!

[mike3775]

my main reason not to get it, lets go online to westwood studios and play Command and Conquer.  Oh wait, we can't, no servers

[jdenm8]

Certainly since hackers love a challenge ... but from the moment that you have to download part of the code to perform this becomes a little more difficult.!

They cracked World of Warcraft, they'll probably crack this.

[Reginasunrae]

As I said before,  EA decisions regarding product online go far beyond fighting piracy. Are also financial decisions ...

To better understand this reasons just need read  two articles .....

Elevation Partners - private equity

EA - Electronic Arts

" EA's earnings are marked by an ongoing difference between non-GAAP and GAAP accounting – which, for example, mandates deferrals of revenue related to services provided for online-enabled packaged goods and digital content. Consequently, EA's quarterly reports reflect hundreds of millions of dollars which, under GAAP accounting, are deferred for a period of months – then appear in the earnings over multiple quarters subsequent to the original sale. Other companies with significant online revenues face similar issues. This can make it extremely difficult to understand the company's GAAP profitability."

Well see? There ya go. I just let my ignorance on that topic get in the way, didn't I? I think also it wasn't helping that I was thinking only with a quarter of the functional part of my brain that day because realistically I know DLC is extremely profitable for EA.

In reference to the hackers, having to download part of the code will only slow them down and they'll relish every ounce of the challenge they get from breaking it.

[NCGAIO]

I'm sorry that you have misunderstood what I posted. If  reread carefully  will see that it comes to the accounting aspects of prioritizing the provision of services instead of selling the products.


There would be discourteous to point out any ignorance on matters that not everyone should know, if that was how you interpreted..

Nowadays there are several battles over digital distribution that will change much what is working today like this for example ....


  - Windows 8 - serious concerns for developers and gaming portals

[Reginasunrae]

Aw shoot, I really did it, didn't I? You see, I have a way of just jumping into a conversation, even on forums I've never really posted on, and totally forget that the other people reading really don't know me at all and know how to read between the lines of what I post. Some days I totally forget this is, after all, the internet.

I'm thinking that perhaps some of the concerns with Windows 8 may be unwarranted. I'm not 100% positive on that but based on what I know about the new OS they should be able to distribute their games.

I may not be understanding all the concerns totally, but there are basically two versions of Windows 8. There's RT, which just came out on the first Surface tablets. This is pretty much nothing more than a tablet OS along the lines of Android and the RT versions are pretty much just a tablet with added software like Office so they can be functional as well as toys. These computers can't run older software and the like, and just like an Android tablet needs to download apps from the MS store (at least currently, there may be apps available in other places eventually).

The normal OS Windows 8 is currently available on new computers as well and will also be available on another version of the Surface tablet after the first of next year. Of course this version of Windows 8 will run all kinds of software, including older stuff. I don't think that any publisher is going to be pushed into MS's app store to distribute their software on the regular Windows 8. If what I've read over the past couple of months is correct, MS's app store can definitely be used if a publisher wishes to, but isn't mandatory. Even if they did and had to pay MS a portion of the selling price, I don't see how that would be any different than selling in a brick and mortar store or selling via Amazon, B&N's website, etc.

Over the years I've grown to really, really dislike EA. I have no patience for heavy-handed business practices. I have even less tolerance for a company that expects a premium price for defective products. I'm all about freedom during playing, using mods that I like, having plenty of CC made by players to choose from, etc. I don't know if SC5 will be moddable or not but I'm thinking multi-play could sure limit that. When TS2 came out, developers from EA helped the modders get their tools working. By the time TS3 came out, EA tried to lock players out of doing much in the way of modifications. I know developers were monumental when it came to modding SC4 as well and am wondering if they'll be anywhere nearly as friendly to people wanting to mod SC5. I think EA tends to forget just how important the modding communities are the longevity of some of their games.

I suppose in the end for me it's a pretty moot point anyway since the past couple of years I haven't had nearly as much time as I would like to play video games and have pretty much decided to get the games I do have installed on my computer and be good with that. I bought SC4 not too long after it came out and over the years I haven't even managed to build one entire region yet. At the time my computer could barely run it. Then I started playing Sims 2 and didn't play much else all during that time. I deserted a family in that game for Sims 3, which I have a love-hate relationship with. I started building a world for Sims 3 shortly after the Create A World tool came out. It's still not finished. I never have managed to finish all the scenarios in Zoo Tycoon 2 and I've had it for ages. I still have three Pokemon games to finish and a few other games that I play on my DS. I think I could spend the rest of my life just finishing what I already have started.

[jdenm8]

I may not be understanding all the concerns totally, but there are basically two versions of Windows 8. There's RT, which just came out on the first Surface tablets. This is pretty much nothing more than a tablet OS along the lines of Android and the RT versions are pretty much just a tablet with added software like Office so they can be functional as well as toys. These computers can't run older software and the like, and just like an Android tablet needs to download apps from the MS store (at least currently, there may be apps available in other places eventually).

One of the problems people have is if AMD leave the AMDx64 and x32 spaces and move to implementing ARM on Desktop chipsets, Windows RT won't be a niche tablet operating system, it'll become the main version on the cheaper ARM-Based AMD equipped computers.

The normal OS Windows 8 is currently available on new computers as well and will also be available on another version of the Surface tablet after the first of next year. Of course this version of Windows 8 will run all kinds of software, including older stuff. I don't think that any publisher is going to be pushed into MS's app store to distribute their software on the regular Windows 8. If what I've read over the past couple of months is correct, MS's app store can definitely be used if a publisher wishes to, but isn't mandatory. Even if they did and had to pay MS a portion of the selling price, I don't see how that would be any different than selling in a brick and mortar store or selling via Amazon, B&N's website, etc.

Both EA and Ubisoft would throw hissy fits because they wouldn't be able to use their online platforms and Valve would need to adopt a more traditional release schedule (As in, not release game in 2007, offer free updates for four years, make game free to play and continue giving free updates) and they would probably be a lot more restrictive on the use of their engine simply because Steam would cease to exist.
The problem here isn't that this isn't possible on Windows 8, it's far from that. The problem is that it might not be possible in Windows 9, 10, 11 etc. We're possibly at the top of a slippery slope here and if Microsoft decides that the Windows Store is definitely the way to go, you'll find that good old Explorer will become increasingly limited in what it can do. It may have largely the same feature set it had in Windows 7 now, but imagine that in Windows 9, they changed the default setting to not allowing applications running under Explorer to modify the File System or only able to modify NTFS file systems (Not the Default file system I might add, yes it might be the norm under Windows NT4.0 - 7, but Windows 8 uses a completely new one). The ramifications would be massive. Not having Explorer able to modify the default file system format.

Just imagine that for a second.

By the time TS3 came out, EA tried to lock players out of doing much in the way of modifications.

Oh, I remember that. It was the #3 reason (behind Uncanny Valley and No Bloody Content, #4 was the low-rent-ness of a lot of the models, a lot of the 'nicer' objects in TS3 are blown away by the Base Game toilet in TS2) why I didn't buy The Sims 3.

[Reginasunrae]

jdenm8 I would certainly never say that what you're describing couldn't be the wave of the future for MS. I know there are concerns aplenty and I don't believe they're completely without warrant. I know there's a new generation of computer users on the march and many of those have no problem with what is currently referred to as walled gardens and having their privacy and rights trampled on because they're too caught up in having the "latest and greatest" thing. Look at how many people have Facebook accounts, for crying out loud, posting intimate details about their lives for all the world to see and have no problem with giving up tons of information to various websites that profit from that information.

I can also imagine another scenario, though. Valve is already developing Steam for Linux. Can you just imagine if MS did do something like locking everyone into their store how many people could suddenly become Linux converts? At the same time if MS does go that route I can see a huge lawsuit being filed against them for trying to monopolize the market.

Back to the Sims franchise, yeah, it just irked me beyond measure that EA was recycling TS2 objects and selling them in their store for TS3. There are aspects of TS3 that I really enjoy but at the same time there are others I absolutely hate. I like that everyone in town ages and eventually dies without my help, but at the same time I definitely miss having a Townie stand idly by while I raise three or four generations waiting for just the right Sim to marry said Townie. Another thing I abhor about TS3 is that married Sims are never really into each other, at all. TS2 Sims seemed so much more aware of their relationships and such. I eventually got used to the uncanny valley look of the Sims and in game it's not as bad as the original screenshots made it out to look. At any rate, high on my to-do list is to get my TS2 game reinstalled and my saves and CC restored so I can play it too.

[WC_EEND]

One of the problems people have is if AMD leave the AMDx64 and x32 spaces and move to implementing ARM on Desktop chipsets, Windows RT won't be a niche tablet operating system, it'll become the main version on the cheaper ARM-Based AMD equipped computers.

Won't happen. That would basically mean Intel would have a monopoly on the x86 market, which would effectively kill it.  Of the 2, I think Intel is much more likely to switch to ARM actually.
Now, don't take this personal, but I think that he whole AMD leaving x86 is just a rumour started by dissapointed AMD fanboys because AMD could not compete at the time with Intel in the performance segment

The problem here isn't that this isn't possible on Windows 8, it's far from that. The problem is that it might not be possible in Windows 9, 10, 11 etc. We're possibly at the top of a slippery slope here and if Microsoft decides that the Windows Store is definitely the way to go, you'll find that good old Explorer will become increasingly limited in what it can do. It may have largely the same feature set it had in Windows 7 now, but imagine that in Windows 9, they changed the default setting to not allowing applications running under Explorer to modify the File System or only able to modify NTFS file systems (Not the Default file system I might add, yes it might be the norm under Windows NT4.0 - 7, but Windows 8 uses a completely new one). The ramifications would be massive. Not having Explorer able to modify the default file system format.

Just imagine that for a second.

Sounds a bit extreme, but I also think this is where Apple wants to go to once ARM becomes powerful enough to take over notebook functionality and thus make iOS (aka walled garden) the only option you have for apps (leaving things like pirating via jailbreaking aside).
I do think that Steam on Linux will significantly boost popularity of Linux though.
That said, I also think Windows 8 is getting unfairly hammered. I mean, all it clearly shows is that people are afraid of radical change. I mean, it's nowhere near as bad as Vista or Me was.