TE and Visible Automata

[Aran]

I'm in the process of modding a project that involves a street base texture.  I'd like it to visibly connect to the 'real' transportation network (and even TE for pedestrian traffic), but I'm having automata issues.  First, there's a LOT OF THEM.  Holy CRAP.  I plop a 1x1 landmark tile TE'd for pedestrians and a ton of Sims crawl out of the woodwork to start walking around it.  Second, and probably more important, the automata treat it as a cul-de-sac for pathing purposes and therefore wander up the edges and across the back before returning to the main road.

So my question is, can I have my cake (a TE lot) and eat it too (no visible automata)?

Thanks,
Aran

Edit: What the heck, might as well toss this one into the ring too: is it possible to suppress the school bus automata from educational buildings?

[CasperVg]

The TE-modding isn't my cup of tea, but I can help you on the school buses. You can get rid of those by removing either

0x150F (School K6) for elementary schools
0x1510 (School HS) for high schools

from the OccupantGroups property in either the Reader, SC4Tool or PIM-X. This will stop it from spawning buses, while keeping the other school properties.

[vortext]

Second, and probably more important, the automata treat it as a cul-de-sac for pathing purposes and therefore wander up the edges and across the back before returning to the main road.

Sounds like you haven't TE-ed the lot appropriate. If you want automata to go through the lot, the red arrows should indicate the entire route you want them to take. In other words, it's not sufficient to only have an entrance.

As for the pedestrians, that's probably related to the lot being a landmark, not because it's TE-ed. Try making a neutral lot and see if there's a difference.

[Aran]

Casper: What if the lot is a museum?

As for the other, the problem is that I only want the lot to connect to the grid for eye candy purposes.  (The base texture is a street and would look awful if there was a sidewalk interrupting it.)  I'd rather do without the automata entirely.  Is there a way to do this without TE?

[vortext]

As for the other, the problem is that I only want the lot to connect to the grid for eye candy purposes.  (The base texture is a street and would look awful if there was a sidewalk interrupting it.)  I'd rather do without the automata entirely.  Is there a way to do this without TE?

Yes there actually is; use overhanging props. Blam has made some overhanging path props (here). Otherwise turn the street texture into a flat, off set prop youself. It's fairly simple to do, provided you're familiar with the Reader.

[Aran]

Couple problems there.  First, I'm not familiar with the Reader.  I've never been able to get the hang of exemplars, cohorts, etc.  If there was a tutorial or very explicit instructions I might manage, but I'm just not comfortable diving into a lot file without knowing what I'm doing.

In any event, it wouldn't matter.  Suppose I do turn the street texture I've been using (from one of the BSC texture files) into an offset.  I'd look great - with my plugin setup.  It might look like crap if someone else uses a different set of street or sidewalk mods than I do.  It's a good idea, I'm just not sure it's the solution I'm looking for.

I may have to find textures for T and + intersections and turn these 1x1 'end' pieces into 1x2 pieces TE'd for through traffic on a single tile instead.  That might be worth exploring.

Edit: Yeah, as soon as I hit Post I realized that I'd end up with the same problem.  Someone using a different street or sidewalk texture will get an ugly lot.  Hmm.  Back to the drawing board.

[vortext]

Couple problems there.  First, I'm not familiar with the Reader.

Yeah and I forgot you'd also need to offset it with Cogeo's ModelTweaker ánd color correct the texture in the first place.

And yes, it would look strange with a different set of street textures indeed, though this is kinda unavoidable when TE-ing a lot or with an eye-candy prop for that matter.

Which makes me wonder if you're planning to release the lot? If so, there's no way around the visual awkwardness. If, however, you intent to create a visual uninterrupted look for your own cities, I'd be happy to make an offset prop for you.

[Aran]

Well, I was planning to release the lots (there's four that are affected) as part of a 20-lot set but the visual/automata issue might prevent that entirely.  Unfortunately, they're sort of integral to the composition of the other lots.  And yes, I know it sounds vague, but I don't want to release details without being able to deliver a finished product.  Frustrating, to say the least.

[vortext]

Ah ok, I see. Intruiging to say the least.  You might want to provide some more info though, maybe somebody else has a different solution alltogether.

Anyhow, have you tried TE-ing a neutral lot? I have this suspicion they don't spawn automata.

[Aran]

Here's a quick TE'd neutral park lot.  (Disregard the base.)  You're right: there's no automata.  I dropped a couple lots next to it to generate walkers so I could illustrate the other, more pressing problem.  The pedestrian automata (circled in black; witness my mad art skillz) follow the path of the yellow arrows as though it were a cul-de-sac.  I want the little bastards gone but I also want the adjacent street to look connected, as shown.

[vortext]

Hm, I understand what you want, not sure if it's possible though.

One thing to try in the SC4Tool, you can configure which transit types are allowed to use the TE connection, so delete the pedestrian option. It's in the second tab I believe. 

Another thing to try is open the lot in the Reader and look at the Building exampler; there should be 3 properties relating to transit (switch point, entry cost and another I forgot), delete those and see what happens.

[Aran]

What you see in the image is the lot TE in SC4Tool for a STREET connection to the SOUTH side only (first tab) and the second tab entirely cleared out.  No ped, car, bus, or freight out-to-in or in-to-out and the capacity set to 0 just for the hell of it.  Let me fool around with the reader and see what happens.  I think clearing the Transit Switch property will nix the whole thing, though.

[vortext]

I think clearing the Transit Switch property will nix the whole thing, though.

It won't, I've done so myself for a couple of lots. However, I just had a look and it won't solve your problem either. I normally play with automata disabled so I turned them on to high and had folks doing their little walk-around. 

[Aran]

Odd.  I had nothing in Reader listed to do with Transit, but there were three Unknown entries.  Deleting the one starting 0x00000007 removed the TE...which sort of defeated the purpose.  I don't know that there's a solution to this, which kind of sucks.  I've been testing these lots in a large city with lots of automata and they really break the immersion factor when they start walking through buildings.

[vortext]

Yeah, I think there isn't an easy solution to block automata from entering a TE lot, which would also kinda defeat the purpose of TE-ing in the first place.

One of my major frustrations and/or challanges with simcity is to create a smooth, uninterrupted look when it comes to street, sidewalk and lot textures. There're a number of things that can be done, overhanging props and TE-ing among them. However, all methods have drawbacks one way or another. At one point, you just have to accept some awkward transitions and visually less appealing parts of town I guess. 

[Aran]

I'm going to try recreating the lots as 1x2's and going that route for the connections.  I can't seem to access the street textures in simcity_03.dat, though.  And it'll mean more lots on the menu, though, when I do.  Ugh.