ReLoting project missing props

[Tyberius06]

Hi Everyone,

I ran into some strange missing props/dependency issue while I wanted to reLot some PEG-CDK3 SP lot. Everything looks fine except when I open the LOTs under the PEG-CDK3-SP Dock 1x 110.dat file in the Lot Editor, I have unidentified props, in that case actually only one: 0xF4E1C6AA. It has the same size than the main dock/ramp props and it can be located exactly above or under these props.

I have all the necessary dependencies what are mentioned on the download pages (the CDK3 SUPERPACKS and the security fence kit)

But accordind to the SC4 Tool's dependency tracker option I have several missing props under other PEG-CDK3/OWW2/CDKM elements aswell. From the cdk3 basics and cement patch dat I have the 0xa0001488 prop what is missing, but only from 2 lots: PEG-CDK3 Docks 3x3 and PEG-CDK3 Docks-OC 3x3.

But the things anyway look fine ingame or into the LE, just bothering me what these props are and how important they are if I leave them out after the reLOTing.

Another question (I maybe open a new topic for this later, because it will be a biger project): I would like to make (at this time only for myself because I'm not awere of the copy right issues and I may not have the satisfiing skills for moding) a full reLoting project about the PEG-CDK3 Seaports, mostly I would like to replace the base and overlay texture to make them compatible with the IRM and using Simmer2 amizing RRW textures. Now I'm only editing the existing CDK3-SP LOTs with the Lot Editor to get some experience, but later I would like make some new LOTs actually I would like to make a full set of new LOTs.
During this editing I ran into an issue. I can not edit the CDK3 Break Bulk Seaport LOT, the actual seaport LOT. I have a patch file in my plugin folder (zzzPEG-PP_BreakBulkSeaPort-Patch_100), if I remove this file the PIM-X not allowes me to edit the seaport LOT, neither the LE. If I leave the patch file I can edit the file with LE, but I can not use the SAVE AS option anyway. So the question, why can I not edit these seaport files and use the SAVE AS option to make a new LOT file?

Thanks for any help and/or advise.

Tyberius06

[vortext]

Not quite sure what'd be the cause of the missing props, nor why you'd not be able to edit the seaport. With regard to the latter however I can imagine it'd be some kind of safety precaution because tinkering with existing seaports can screw things over big time - it's serious CTD territory if you're not careful. Instead I'd recommend to take a look at the BSC Functional Seaports as it contains a number of empty seaport lot & their respective enablers which allows you to make one from scratch.

[Andreas]

The LE (and maybe PIM-X as well) doesn't allow editing functional airport and seaport lots due to a special exemplar file that was named "airport controller" and "seaport controller", respectively. Due to the implementation of those lots in the game, the "controller" contains a list of all airport/seaport exemplar file ID numbers, and as vortext said, you'll run into massive CTD issues if the list of IDs in that file doesn't match the actual functional airport/seaport lots that you have installed.

You can expand that list, but once you used this expanded list, you cannot go back and remove an ID from it anymore, so that's a one-way road, hence all those "enablers" and "patches" were created. The "controllers" that were released simply contain said full list of all known functional lots, and any that you don't have installed have to be overridden with such special files that act as placeholders. This means all editing regarding functional airports and seaport lots has to be done very carefully, and checking the IDs properly is mandatory.

[Tyberius06]

Thank both of you the answers!

Well for start I've already messed up things with the seaport as I read out from your answeres, but the process is still in experimental stage so no problem. Last time I could modify the base and overlay textures on the Break Bulk seaport, but I couldn't change the dimensions. Well I worked with PIM and LE aswell (First I made some texture changes on the LOT with LE, than saved it so I got a LOTfile into my plugin folder - the original seaport was in a dat file as Pegasus made -, than I made the LOT file renaming with PIM-X, but when I opened the seaport in the PIM I couldn't see any changes what I previously made. I went back to the LE, opened the seaport, saved it, and after a few program closing and opening I got only the renamed file, where I could change the textures but not the dimensions.
But I have no f. clue about IDs. But reading the explanations I rather wouldn't massed up more the seaport file, I just want to unify the textures, because I can make a separate LOT with different dimensions according to my original plan.
What I guess, if I make the textures changes I have to replace the old dat file with new LOT file what is made by the LE.
Can I make the necessary texture replacement with the LE, saving the file without any renaming, after that removing the original sp file, than copy the new one onto the old one's place and will it be still working withoit crashing?

[Andreas]

Ideally, such modifications should be done with the Reader, since it's the only tool that gives you "raw" access to the files. You need to know a bit of the technical side of how lots in SC4 work; there is a "building exemplar file" that holds all the properties and stats, and there is a "lot exemplar file" that holds the lot size, textures and props. It doesn't really matter if the files are *.SC4Lot or *.dat, that's just to identify them better in the plugins folder. Usually, *.dat files contain more than the lot and building exemplar file, they're considered as a general "container" file for all kinds of stuff. For the game, it doesn't matter, though, as it only relies on ID numbers.

Now while you can easily keep the whole ID scheme with editing the layout or appearance of a lot, you need to work around the built-in "hands off" features of the LE etc., and use the Reader for compiling your exemplar files manually. As mentioned before, it requires some knowledge how those files work internally, and without that knowledge, editing those lots simply isn't possible, since you first have to remove those "hands off" barriers, then edit your lot, save it (as a copy), and then transfer all the changes that you made in LE manually into the original file.

For functional airports and seaports, it's even a bit more complicated when you want to touch the lot size, as those might have been designed as "upgradable". For example, the in-game airports have three "sizes" (capacities, really), which are actually just three different lots, and when the game offers you an airport upgrade, it bulldozes the "small" lot and replaces it with the "medium" lot automatically. So if your seaport lot has the same functionality, changing the lot size would mean you have to do that for all lots in the "upgrade chain" as well. So yeah, this surely is advanced modding territory alright...

Whenever you edit a lot in LE and hit "save" (not save as), the original file will be overwritten, but only if a) it is located in "Plugins" (no subfolder), b) the name wasn't changed from what it was originally named when the author saved it, c) you or the author didn't change the exemplar name. The LE picks a name that is based on the exemplar name, and depending on the type of the lot, there is a common scheme that includes purpose (R, C, I etc.), stage, lot size etc. If any of the above condition is not met, the LE will create a NEW file, which - depending on the name, will be loaded either before or after the original lot (you probably know that the game uses a certain alphabetic loading order). Hence you gotta be careful about that, too, and need the knowledge how to fix that manually as well.

To make a long story short, there are many ways to screw up things with seemingly simple tasks that actually require advanced modding knowledge. I guess that's the main reason why LE etc. don't allow that kind of editing, since the risk of screwing something up is simply too high. I'm sure someone can guide you to the exact modding process and help you with editing your file properly, as long as you provide detailed information what exactly needs to be changed, but I wouldn't recommend to do the "trial and error" method here.

It's probably best if you could provide the original files, and post an edited lot that reflects your texture changes, and someone with the proper modding skills can insert it into the source files, so you'll have a direct replacement that doesn't requite any ID juggling and such. Actually, simple texture changes can be done at any time, since the texture layout isn't stored in the savegame (unlike the prop layout), so existing lots would upgrade automatically. Everything else will require bulldozing and replopping all existing lots in your cities, though.

[Tyberius06]

Thank you for the advice. 
I'll try to figure it out my next step. I think at this moment I make the surrounding pieces of the set and than I'll star experimenting with seaports.
If I could use the BSC seaport with the PEG-CDK3-SP designed LOTs that would be a nice solution.