-M-'s LE Recreations and Alterations / M's LOT Studio (MLS)

[wouanagaine]

Good start, but I really don't see why there is a chemeny higher than the cooling ones
Cooling chemeney are useally the highest things in a nuclear station

[RippleJet]

Marius, what a grand return!
Good to see Steve has allowed you to play with us as well...

The only problem, however, is that such a big lot (30 x 32) will require many props and textures and we all know that there is a limit to that. *sigh*

That will certainly set a severe restriction to your lot, as 30×32 already uses 960 base textures.
Since 1,280 is the maximum number of items allowed, that would leave only 320 for overlay textures and props.

Maybe split it up and make it modular, each still being a functional nuclear plant...
That would also allow the player to build roads between them, which will reduce the problem with the crime in megalots.

[M4346]

Good start, but I really don't see why there is a chemeny higher than the cooling ones
Cooling chemeney are useally the highest things in a nuclear station

The original El Burro prop pack included the very tall smoke stack and it was subsequently included in his lot. I've never seen a nuclear power plant with such a tall smoke stack, as it is rather a common feature (at least here in SA) associated with Coal Power Plants (that also then have cooling towers).

I'm thinking of removing it in favour of realism, unless someone can tell me why it is necessary. I understand the need for such a tall smoke stack to counter valley climates and specifically temperature inversion which may be a problem in cities.

Marius, what a grand return!
Good to see Steve has allowed you to play with us as well...

That will certainly set a severe restriction to your lot, as 30×32 already uses 960 base textures.
Since 1,280 is the maximum number of items allowed, that would leave only 320 for overlay textures and props.

Maybe split it up and make it modular, each still being a functional nuclear plant...
That would also allow the player to build roads between them, which will reduce the problem with the crime in megalots.

It's more a case of varsity allowing me to play nicely again with you people I'm not so sure how that will impact on my sanity though.

In the light of our discussion, I think I'll make this "modular" because of restrictions in lotting and to allow for a more customisable nuclear plant complex. The end-user can then combine it with the SNM fences and gatehouses to their heart's content!

[Diggis]

In the light of our discussion, I think I'll make this "modular" because of restrictions in lotting and to allow for a more customisable nuclear plant complex. The end-user can then combine it with the SNM fences and gatehouses to their heart's content!

Cunning way out.    Would also make it cheaper and easily expandable.

[Ennedi]

Hello Marius, I'm very glad to see you again! 

Your new nuclear power plant can be an excellent BAT. Here are a few of my thoughts about it:

1. The chimney looks very good, but it is not necessary in the nuclear power plant. No flue gas is produced here. Stephane is right.
2. Looking at your picture I was thinking about the function of particular buildings:
- The reactor: Everybody can see where is it  - and it looks very good.
- Two long buildings - I suppose these are power blocks (power units) with huge turbines inside them. Power lines should start from these buildings, so you should provide substations close to them (you can use existing ones from an existing high tension power lines set, I don't remember but I suppose it's in STEX)
- The third building close to the reactor - I suppose it is a dispatching center for the reactor and all other installations remote control, this building should include also the heat exchange unit (the "dirty" radioactive water heated in the reactor goes to the unit and heats the "clean" water which then goes to power blocks and moves turbines. In fact the principle is very simple). You made pipelines from reactor to this building, and you should provide pipelines from it to power blocks.
- Cooling towers: You have two power blocks, so you don't need to have more than two cooling towers. They are very efficient. It would be very good to make this plant modular, the player will be able to place cooling towers in bigger distance ffrom other buildings.
You should also provide pipelines between power blocks and cooling towers, and from cooling towers to the heat exchange building (cool water must return to it, then it is heated again and so on)
Real cooling towers are a bit more slender. They have parabolic shape.
Towers on pictures above are from the coal power plant, but their shape is the same. Look at them:





This is a very interesting project. I will think about it more.

Adam

[rooker1]

Hey M,
It's good to see you back and running.   
Great looking LOT and good idea making it modular for several reasons, all already mentioned.
I can't wait to see your LOTting.  But please don't add too many trees. 

Robin 

[M4346]

Hello Marius, I'm very glad to see you again! 

Your new nuclear power plant can be an excellent BAT. Here are a few of my thoughts about it:

1. The chimney looks very good, but it is not necessary in the nuclear power plant. No flue gas is produced here. Stephane is right.
2. Looking at your picture I was thinking about the function of particular buildings:
- The reactor: Everybody can see where is it  - and it looks very good.
- Two long buildings - I suppose these are power blocks (power units) with huge turbines inside them. Power lines should start from these buildings, so you should provide substations close to them (you can use existing ones from an existing high tension power lines set, I don't remember but I suppose it's in STEX)
- The third building close to the reactor - I suppose it is a dispatching center for the reactor and all other installations remote control, this building should include also the heat exchange unit (the "dirty" radioactive water heated in the reactor goes to the unit and heats the "clean" water which then goes to power blocks and moves turbines. In fact the principle is very simple). You made pipelines from reactor to this building, and you should provide pipelines from it to power blocks.
- Cooling towers: You have two power blocks, so you don't need to have more than two cooling towers. They are very efficient. It would be very good to make this plant modular, the player will be able to place cooling towers in bigger distance ffrom other buildings.
You should also provide pipelines between power blocks and cooling towers, and from cooling towers to the heat exchange building (cool water must return to it, then it is heated again and so on)
Real cooling towers are a bit more slender. They have parabolic shape.

This is a very interesting project. I will think about it more.

Adam

Thanks for stopping by Adam, and for your very good, sound advice. I will, however, stress again that I did not make the models but am merely re-lotting them with CAM-statistics and am also, now, making them 'modular'.

I have omitted the smoke stack and have made each of the buildings modular as follows:

• The Reactor Building and the Reactor (they were batted together)
• Two out-buildings (separately) which may be, as you pointed out, the power units
• A cooling tower

The result is as follows (in the order outlined above):

This would allow for one out building / power unit and one cooling tower, or both power units and two cooling towers. Whichever the end-user may prefer.

LOTting this appears to be a bit out of my league though, because as Robin pleads:

I can't wait to see your LOTting.  But please don't add too many trees. 

I love trees (living in green and tree-y Africa) and subsequently they always dominate my LOTs. 

I hope the trees above aren't too much? I just don't know what to do on these LOTs. Trucks? Which ones? How?

Any ideas?! 

Thanks all for your feedback and support thus far! 

[Diggis]

If you look at the photo above it seems to be green with lots of parking.  And if you consider the large number of people that work there, and the size of the parking at the springfield one  , the rest of the space should probably be that.

[rooker1]

M,
So far so good my friend.  And I highly doubt this LOTting will be out of your league.
I think trees look good around office buildings and parking lot, but not too much.  I think one needs to remember that in commercial and industrial areas the plants/trees were most likely planted and should look as if there were.  Evenly spaced, not too much as it cost more.
Anyways, in one of your next updates could you place everything where you think it should be so I can get the over all feel again with the way you are LOTting things now.  I know it's modular and the LOTs can be placed any where, but you and I know that we invision certain LOTs in certain places.

BTW, you are one of the reasons I LOT today. 

Robin 

[Pat]

I don't know what / who that creature is, and I can't remember where I found it, but it's my favourite little thing ever! LOL. I baptised him Wilbur Emmer Cortez III 

Well Marius let me be the first to say Hi and welcome to Wilbur Emmer Cortez III, hope to see him around for a looong time...

I haven't mentioned it here, I believe, but I'm going to the US (Washington D.C., Iowa - Des Moines and Ames - and Atlanta) from the 1st - 15th of July and I'm quite excited about that as well. I was selected by the US Diplomatic Mission (Embassy) in South Africa to represent South Africa and my University as a Youth Ambassador, with the opportunity to engage in volunteering and public presentation in these cities and learn about the US culture and history. I'm really looking forward to that!

You will have a great time in IOWA and DC... Do you have an Arby's in SA?  if not I would highly recommend that you go to one in either city's and here is a good one in IA...

EDIT: Just to make sure we're clear, the props for the Nuclear Plant were made by El Burro. And the reason I wanted to re-lot it was two-fold: (1) to give it CAM statistics and (2) to give it a fence.

So I take it that the latter of the 2 was the real main mission here ehh???  I do have to say so far not so bad at all with the relott and one suggestion though is maybe see how the parking area would look with BSC parking lot textures?  Can't wait to see further progress here Marius!!!!

[Ennedi]

Marius,

You divided your lot very wisely. You will have to decide which lot will be the functional one, I suppose it will be the reactor building.
I have a little idea - maybe one day in future you will want to make another functional lot harmonizing with power blocks and cooling towers and with another statisctics, to be able to make a power plant of another kind? 

The greenery along parkings look very good! I understand Robin's point of view, but I spent last 20 years in various industrial plants and I can say there is much grass (and some trees) both inside them and in their closest surrounding. I will look for pictures instead of using too much words. In fact, we have excellent custom industrial buildings in SC4, but the best of them look very old - at least 70-80 years or even more. Fukuda's creations (although they are very good) look very dirty and it is also not quite realistic to create the whole industrial district using such stuff. It would be good to change this situation.

As for various props - I will think and look for RL pictures next few days.

Adam

[JoeST]

looking rather amazing in here... I like the modularity of it

Joe

[M4346]

Anyways, in one of your next updates could you place everything where you think it should be so I can get the over all feel again with the way you are LOTting things now.  I know it's modular and the LOTs can be placed any where, but you and I know that we invision certain LOTs in certain places.

BTW, you are one of the reasons I LOT today. 

See the images below, and, thank you, you flatter me.

Well Marius let me be the first to say Hi and welcome to Wilbur Emmer Cortez III, hope to see him around for a looong time...

You will have a great time in IOWA and DC... Do you have an Arby's in SA?  if not I would highly recommend that you go to one in either city's and here is a good one in IA...

I'm sure you'll see him, and the various incarnations he has manifested himself in, around for quite some time to come 

We don't have Arby's in SA, but I checked it out and it looks really good! 

Marius,

You divided your lot very wisely. You will have to decide which lot will be the functional one, I suppose it will be the reactor building.

[cut]

The greenery along parkings look very good! I understand Robin's point of view, but I spent last 20 years in various industrial plants and I can say there is much grass (and some trees) both inside them and in their closest surrounding.

That's one of the burning questions now: should the main building (reactor and reactor building) be the power plant and the other peripheral buildings be mere "eye candy" or should they also contribute to the out-put capacity?

Furthermore, have a look at what I've done thus far (in terms of greenery, layout, etc.) and tell me what you (and the others) think. 

Thank you so much Adam, Robin, Diggis and Pat for your feedback it is really much appreciated. 

Here's the reactor building and reactor, the power units and the cooling towers laid out as I would like it - along with SNM fences and gatehouses. This is not my ideal layout, but something I put together quickly. Notice the spaces that can now be filled with parking lots, or whatever the heart desires. In my case I opted for trees:

Here are two close-up views:

[JoeST]

Hey M... would it be possible to set one as the reward from plopping the other?

btw, its looking awesome in here

Joe

[cogeo]

I agree with having two cooling towers for one reactor, this is the norm.

But the cooling towers should be a separate lot, without those two long buildings (indeed, what are they, turbine buildings or emergency diesel generators). Not all NPPs do have cooling towers, those build in cold climates with an abundant supply of water nearby don't need them, so they should be an option. The turbines should be placed together (in the same lot) with the nuclear island - and this should be all-fenced. The towers may not be have fencing.

Consider making a water intake tubes lot (placed underwater only). I made one for my NPP, but I think it will look disproportionately small with the models you are using (btw mine is almost abandoned, but if somenone wishes to keep working on this, I would be happy to hand over my work till now).



My lot as of today. Only the generator building and an auxiliary one are made (and the lightposts too).



The water intake.

Other bits you may want to add:
- An electric substation (there are several released, I can recall jestarr's and fukuda's). It can be inside the main lot, next to the generators). There is also a technique for somehow "Transit-Enabling" a lot for connecting electric wires, but I haven't experimented with this.
- Some taller lightpoles. Try those by great chozo. I have made some for my own plant, but I don't know how they will look with yours, plus you will have to attach (or even remake) the lightcones.

Power output (and subsequently plop and maintenance costs) are way too high. I had released a set of NPPs on the STEX in the past and tried to make convert power output to SC4 units. Checked real world power stats, and concluded that an a 1000MW PP would power some 1,000,000 of people (both residences and workplaces). A quite good conversion factor would be times 100, eg a 1000MW PP corresponds roughly to 100.000MWh/month in SC4 (don't try to do the math, SC4 is completely off-scale). The biggest NPP in the world is (will be) Areva's EPR (currently under construction), a 1600MWe PP (it should be some 160,000MWh/mo in SC4). Also, price for electricity should be slightly more than coal (not 0.18), and Plop-Cost/MW even higher than SC4's NPP).

And I don't agree with RippleJet, the auxiliary/optional lots (towers, water intake etc) should not be NPPs themselves (only the main lot should be), these can be power plants so that they appear in the power menu (and next to the main lot's button) but have some a very low output, 1-2MWh (if it can't be 0), an almost infinite lifespan and zero plop/bulldoze and maintenance costs (this won't harm the game at all, they are considered only "decorative").

[M4346]

Before I continue, I just need to make sure that we're all on the same page here and that we all know what happens in this thread.

First of all, I do not, cannot and do not intend to ever BAT, and accordingly this thread is aptly titled: M's LOT Studio. Yes, I do "mod" things to make them LOTable; and yes I do use Photoshop and make READMEs, but apart from LOTting and packaging, I do not BAT. Accordingly, and second of all, these models are not mine, and as such I am always bound to the limitations of, first and foremost, the game and then the limitations imposed by the BATter.

As such I would appreciate constructive contributions and criticisms in terms of lot layout and other lot-related aspects (aesthetics, functionality, realism, etc.) but would not be able to do very much in terms of criticisms of the models or props in themselves.

I hope all of that is understood. 

Hey M... would it be possible to set one as the reward from plopping the other?

It is possible, but I'm not quite sure whether it is feasible and I am not - at the moment - considering it. Especially not in the light of Cogeo's argument below - it seems unnecessary.

I agree with having two cooling towers for one reactor, this is the norm.

But the cooling towers should be a separate lot, without those two long buildings (indeed, what are they, turbine buildings or emergency diesel generators). Not all NPPs do have cooling towers, those build in cold climates with an abundant supply of water nearby don't need them, so they should be an option. The turbines should be placed together (in the same lot) with the nuclear island - and this should be all-fenced. The towers may not be have fencing.

Yes, I agree. My experience with NPPs dictate the necessity for two cooling towers in warmer climates - as is the case in South Africa. Also note that the cooling towers and out-buildings are separate LOTs and eventually the End-User would be able to place any number of cooling towers that his / her heart desires, and would be able to decide whether or not to include the out-buildings (labelled 001 & 002 on the BAT itself).

I don't know what El Burro intended their use be, I didn't ask, and am merely - as pointed out above - working within the constraints imposed by the BATs. Accordingly I will take seriously Adam's suggestion of making other power plants using these models, specifically the creation of a Coal Power Plant by using the two out-buildings, the cooling towers and the tall smoke stack.

Further, I have fenced the Reactor and I also fenced the cooling towers (allowing access through a little gate) for purely safety reason (and not to limit access due to security reasons). It is mainly to keep little and / or naughty children from climbing up the tower and so forth.

Consider making a water intake tubes lot (placed underwater only).

I think, in all honesty, seeing as I am not a NPP expert or even a BATter for that matter, that this technicality can be left to the End-User who favours realism and can as such then modify it to their heart's desire in the LE. I took up this project with the hope of relotting the beautiful plant for my personal use, and then sharing it with the community purely as a secondary intention.

Other bits you may want to add:
- An electric substation (there are several released, I can recall jestarr's and fukuda's). It can be inside the main lot, next to the generators). There is also a technique for somehow "Transit-Enabling" a lot for connecting electric wires, but I haven't experimented with this.
- Some taller lightpoles. Try those by great chozo. I have made some for my own plant, but I don't know how they will look with yours, plus you will have to attach (or even remake) the lightcones.

I think adding sub-stations and powerlines will limit the freedom of the End-User, and would also inevitably add to the dependency burden. Yet again, I believe that if the End-User's circumstances necessitate the addition of sub-stations and powerlines, that can very easily be done via the LE with their choice of sub-station and line.

Power output (and subsequently plop and maintenance costs) are way too high. I had released a set of NPPs on the STEX in the past and tried to make convert power output to SC4 units. Checked real world power stats, and concluded that an a 1000MW PP would power some 1,000,000 of people (both residences and workplaces). A quite good conversion factor would be times 100, eg a 1000MW PP corresponds roughly to 100.000MWh/month in SC4 (don't try to do the math, SC4 is completely off-scale). The biggest NPP in the world is (will be) Areva's EPR (currently under construction), a 1600MWe PP (it should be some 160,000MWh/mo in SC4). Also, price for electricity should be slightly more than coal (not 0.18), and Plop-Cost/MW even higher than SC4's NPP).

And I don't agree with RippleJet, the auxiliary/optional lots (towers, water intake etc) should not be NPPs themselves (only the main lot should be), these can be power plants so that they appear in the power menu (and next to the main lot's button) but have some a very low output, 1-2MWh (if it can't be 0), an almost infinite lifespan and zero plop/bulldoze and maintenance costs (this won't harm the game at all, they are considered only "decorative").

I have reconfigured the stats for the plant since posting the original values and can't remember them off the top of my head. I will take your concerns into account, but also know that this was modded primarily by the PIM-X and its values that have been correlated with the CAM. As we all know the CAM makes immense cities possible and as such an upward surge in output capacity for CAMeLOT power plants is, at least in my opinion, justified. I'll have the other modders using PIM-X comment on this. To this end, I used a 0.025 fill degree for the reactor and it gave me, I think, in excess of 200 000MWh/mo. I also don't think that a plop cost of less than 200 000 is justifiable. I'll talk to RJ et al about this.

Furthermore, I agree that the auxiliary buildings should be adjusted to have little or no output capacity and will take into account your suggestions in terms of that.

Thank you very much for your feedback, I really appreciate it and it has added to my perspective and understanding. 

Now, with most of the technicalities aside, I need to know what you (pl.) think of the lot(s)! 

[RippleJet]

I have reconfigured the stats for the plant since posting the original values and can't remember them off the top of my head. I will take your concerns into account, but also know that this was modded primarily by the PIM-X and its values that have been correlated with the CAM. As we all know the CAM makes immense cities possible and as such an upward surge in output capacity for CAMeLOT power plants is, at least in my opinion, justified. I'll have the other modders using PIM-X comment on this. To this end, I used a 0.025 fill degree for the reactor and it gave me, I think, in excess of 200 000MWh/mo. I also don't think that a plop cost of less than 200 000 is justifiable. I'll talk to RJ et al about this.

This discussion may very well lead to adjusting the values in PIM-X.

Currently they are directly based off the in-game plants,
where nuclear power is produced at 0.1875 § per MWh.
The in-game coal plant's production cost is 0.0417 § per MWh.

I think the production cost per MWh should be lower, the bigger the plant is, especially for nuclear plants...

[Pat]

Marius hmm I am still not to fond of the parking lot but its looking good, the over all lotting is simply yummies!!!

[cogeo]

Maybe these models are not the most suitable for use with the "automated" features of PIM-X. They are immense (check the pin in the previous page, for a comparison with SC4's model). They must be amongst the biggest ever made. PIM-X will return extreme results. Players won't like having the power at steps of 600.000MWh (200.000MWh is a bit much as well, but much more manageable). Also check the turbine building on my lot. It's for the biggest NPP on earth, and it's "only" about 95m (ca 6 tiles) - I have used real scale. Compare it with El-Burro's models and you can see how immense they are.

As for decoration, I can see you are using Maxis' nuclear steam effect. This is actually designed for a the SC4 model, and doesn't look realistic either. I would suggest that you use the natural gas plant smoke one. You must put a lot of them though, to achieve a more realistic effect. This dissapears very fast, but if you put some (many) of these together, you can get a good effect. Also you can make a timed prop (eg December to August) using this effect (see how this is implemented by Maxis), to have the tower not steaming for some months. It would also be nice to make another (similar) timed prop, visible during a different period of the year - the "idle" ranges can partially overlap. Then you can have two Cooling Tower lots (say A and B), each using only one of the above props (effects). That is you will have both towers steaming for most of the year, but for some few months only one will be steaming (for a short time, both towers would be idle). If you want to make something even more advanced, you can make another two timed props, with ranges non-overlapping with the above. These can be used for emulating a "reduced power" effect (this can be done by just putting fewer effects). Eg for tower A, you can have December to May running at full power, June to August at reduced power, and September to November non-functional. Just an idea.

[M4346]

Due to technical difficulties the Pelindaba Nuclear Power Plant Complex is currently on hold.

BUT... to celebrate my straight A's this semester,  as well as my two year and two months anniversary / 26 monthiversary , I have thought it necessary to create:

The MME Schoeman College

A tertiary education institution named after the Head of Department of Political Science at the University of Pretoria, South Africa, Prof MME (Maxi) Schoeman. The institution specialises in Political Science, International Relations, as well as Public Administration and Management.

Now, as you can see it is not finished yet, and I have merely represented you with a visualisation of the lot layout and the building of choice. In this case, it is Bandito's Lufthansa Building. It has the BSC Parks Base Texture and can tie in with the BSC Parks system.

It is currently a normal College (with a rather large capacity), but I will also create a CO$$7 growable version with the exact lot texture and prop layout. 



Furthermore, just to assure some of you that I am still playing the game, here's a shot of my latest region (the first one I've actually started playing on in over a year). It is called uKahlamba, which is the Zulu word for the Drakensberg (Afrikaans for "Dragon's Mountain") mountain range. I thought uKahlamba, which means "barrier of spears", is quite fitting for the NHP Sleeping Giant Map that I'm using. 

The city (hastily titled 14) is a rural community with 909 IR jobs, 269 Commercial jobs, and 2 928 residents. Most of those residents live in low wealth residential areas (and particularly in the township to the east of the town), working predominantly on the surrounding farms. The farms include vineyards, sugar cane, wheat, corn, bananas and lots of equestrian estates.

I was wondering if someone had a more creative name for the little settlement, other than 14?



Additionally, as most of you know by now I'm sure, I am leaving for a two weak "educational" trip on July 1st as one of eight youth ambassadors selected by the US Diplomatic Mission in South Africa to experience and engage in US cultural, historical and other activities.

For the Americans (and other interested parties out there), here's an itinerary of my trip:

Tuesday, July 1, 2008         
Pre-departure Orientation in Pretoria, leave for the U.S. late in the evening, to Washington via Amsterdam-Schippol

Wednesday, July 2, 2008
Group travels to Washington, DC

July, 3 – 5, 2008
Group activities in Washington, DC

July 3 State Department Visit, afternoon at South African Embassy (still tentative), possible visit to US legislators after embassy.
July 4, Tour of the National Mall, Memorials, Folk-life Festival, fireworks
July 5, wrap up and flight home.

Saturday, July 5, 2008     
Group travels to Des Moines, IA, dinner on the way home.
Transport to host families, arrive at 9PM

Sunday, July 6, 2008
Church with families in the morning.
Group orientation session (technical training) in Ames City Hall with IRIS staff

Monday, July 7, 2008 
Group activities in Des Moines, IA

• Tour of the Capitol and welcome by Iowa legislator;
• Tour of the Iowa Governor's mansion;
• Visit to Science Center of Iowa;
• Visit to Creative Visions – urban youth facility;

Tuesday, July 8, 2008 
Tour of the University of Iowa in Iowa City and meetings with university-level volunteer groups and others doing service work in Africa

Wednesday, July 9, 2008
Tour of Iowa State University in Ames and meetings with university-level volunteer groups
African Forum Dinner in Ames 7PM-9PM

Thursday, July 10, 2008
Tour of Central College, a private liberal arts college in Iowa: morning.
Possible visit to Neal Smith National Wildlife Refuge in the afternoon.

Friday, July 11, 2008              
Group takes part in a community volunteer project
Presentations at reception dinner, 5PM in Ames City Hall Council Chambers.

Saturday, July 12, 2008         
Group travels to Atlanta, Georgia, via Memphis

July 12 - 14, 2008     
Group activities in Atlanta, Georgia

• Tour of the Martin Luther King Center;
• Visit to Jimmy Carter Presidential Library;
• Tour of Cable News Network (CNN);
• Tour of Emory University;
• Visits to other places of interest

As I'm sure you can imagine, I am quite excited and it seems like I'll be kept quite busy! I'm looking forward to visiting the National Mall, Emory University and Atlanta the most! 

I'll be in DC on Independence Day as well!