No residential growth

[RippleJet]

so far I have develop a lot of low density zones. but mostly between stage 1 -3 and some four. So I shoud go to medium density?

Yes, most stage 4 and all stage 5 residential houses require medium density zones to grow.

And by zoning medium density only in certain centrally located places,
you can pretty well determine where to get your first midrises.

[z]

The eternal commuters are unfortunately permanently saved in the saved game files.
Thus, even if you bulldoze all border connections, they would still be there.

They don't even have to be seen as people actually commuting over the border.
The Simulator only sees them as residential capacity available elsewhere (not specifically where) in the region.

Due to this there is also very little chance of recovering a region that has built up a huge amount of eternal commuters.
Even without the CAM you would at some point have experienced the same sooner or later (later than with the CAM in play though).

The only chance of getting some sort of recovery is to substantially increase the number of industrial and commercial jobs in your region.

But if you eliminate the eternal commuter problem from each city in the region and then save that city, won't that fix the problem?

[RippleJet]

But if you eliminate the eternal commuter problem from each city in the region and then save that city, won't that fix the problem?

Unfortunately no. Removing the border connections won't reduce the residential capacity the city believes it has already seen in its neighbours. The capacity will always be there and taken into account by the simulator when counting the balance between workforce (residential capacity) and jobs (industrial and commercial capacity), even if no residents would actually physically be crossing the border.

[z]

But certainly each city has to recalculate its neighbors' residential capacity from time to time - that's how it got the erroneous figures in the first place.  I'm not doubting what you say, I just don't understand why there can't be some way of bringing these capacity numbers back closer to reality.  For example, if the residential population of a neighbor city grows substantially after an eternal commuter connection has been cut, wouldn't this have the desired effect (at least with that one city)?

[RippleJet]

Unfortunately I don't know exactly how the game computes and takes neighbours into consideration.
However, my experience is that the capacity seen through neighbour connections can only increase, not decrease

[gallard0_inc]

Hey guys,,
I got a question..
I start a new city.
It has high residential demand and it already connected with other city.
The region population about 100k.
And i already place the high density residential,
but it won't develop into an apartment, it just a small house.
Can someone help me?

[MandelSoft]

I think your region population is just too low to make highrises to grow. They start to grow at 500k region pop. (I think)

[z]

Unfortunately I don't know exactly how the game computes and takes neighbours into consideration.
However, my experience is that the capacity seen through neighbour connections can only increase, not decrease

Yes, after all you people have done, it's sometimes easy to forget that you've never even seen the original source code.

Right now, I'm just having the problem that the bigger my region grows, the more sluggish it becomes.  I'm hoping that the RCI demand fix will cure a lot of this problem.  (BTW, I'd be a very willing beta tester for that fix.)  There's one more solution that has occurred to me, and that seems a lot less drastic than blowing up an entire region.

We know that all the demand data is saved in the city files, because those are the only data files there are.  Suppose I were to copy my whole region to another folder, and then delete every city in the original region.  At this point, one would think (one would hope!) that there would be no intercity demand anywhere, and that all populations would be zero.  (If this were not the case, as you implied might be possible in your last message, you could always start with a fresh map.)  At this point, you could import the cities from your saved region into your original region, one by one.  One would think (or again, at least hope!) that Maxis would be smart enough not to import external demand along with city data.  If this is true, you'd be starting with actual demand figures once you start your cities up again, assuming you had the RCI demand fix installed.  How does that sound?

[gallard0_inc]

No, mrtrin
In other city I already have stage 8 residential building.
I create 5 cities, but only one citiy don't have stage 8 building.
The residential demand very high.
Am I doing something wrong?

[MandelSoft]

Does your city has enough jobs? That is also a limit factor.

[RippleJet]

At this point, you could import the cities from your saved region into your original region, one by one.  One would think (or again, at least hope!) that Maxis would be smart enough not to import external demand along with city data.  If this is true, you'd be starting with actual demand figures once you start your cities up again, assuming you had the RCI demand fix installed.  How does that sound?

I don't think that has been tested, so I'd love to see you make some experimenting.

The fact is however, that the regional demand and capacity numbers are saved independently with each city, and they never match each other completely.
Importing such a city would most probably import the saved regional capacity data as well.

The saved regional demand and capacities are part of the extrapolation that the game does.
While playing a city, it is assumed that the neighbouring cities continue to grow at the same time (although not being played at the same time).

That is handled by the extrapolated demand.
In order not to loose such an extrapolated demand you should e.g. always play a city till it has grown about 10%.
Otherwise you'd loose some of the demand extrapolated to this city from around it.

It has high residential demand and it already connected with other city.
The region population about 100k.
And i already place the high density residential,
but it won't develop into an apartment, it just a small house.
Can someone help me?

I'd suggest that you continue to play. Sooner or later highrises will start to appear.
Also make sure some of your residential zones are in fact high density.

With a regional residential capacity of 100,000 you still only have a 6-13% chance of growing stage 8 or 9:

Residential Stage Limits

The threshold values are in all cases the total regional residential capacity (not population): R§ + R§§ + R§§§.

Specifically for the CAM, the threshold values are set higher for R§§§ than for R§§, and higher for R§§ than for R§.

R§	R§§	R§§§	Stage	Stage	Stage	Stage	Stage	Stage	Stage	Stage	Stage
			1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
69469	78124	86836	2 %	4 %	6 %	19 %	22 %	25 %	16 %	6 %
86836	97655	108545	1 %	3 %	5 %	16 %	19 %	23 %	20 %	11 %	2 %

[z]

I don't think that has been tested, so I'd love to see you make some experimenting.

I think I'll wait for wouanagaine's demand patch, and see how much of my problem that fixes.  If I still have noticeable problems after that, I'll try experimenting with importing, and I'll be sure to let you know of the results.

[gallard0_inc]

Yeah my city got alot of jobs and they all highrise building.
Ok, maybe I should try your advice RippleJet.
Thanks for the advice everyone .

[fantnet]

Yes, most stage 4 and all stage 5 residential houses require medium density zones to grow.

And by zoning medium density only in certain centrally located places,
you can pretty well determine where to get your first midrises.

Thanks for all of your help thus far. how big can I expect my suburbs to grow before I get to more urban areas? I hav 4-5 medium sized city tiles surroung my expected more urban area? right I am growing on low density and low stages.

[RippleJet]

Thanks for all of your help thus far. how big can I expect my suburbs to grow before I get to more urban areas? I hav 4-5 medium sized city tiles surroung my expected more urban area? right I am growing on low density and low stages.

That is a good question, and I would love to see how high a regional residential capacity you would be able to achieve using only low density zoning.
At some stage the growth should stop when the simulator needs to build higher growth stages, but cannot due to the lack of medium density zones.

[z]

My Chicago simulation is having more and more difficulties with demand, especially as I move away from the downtown area, with its huge skyscrapers, and out into the more residential areas of the city, where residences significantly outnumber businesses and industry in a given tile.  It is clear by now that RippleJet's and xxdita's analysis is completely correct, and that it is the CAM demand bug that is causing most of my problems.  It sounds like wouanagaine's fix will take care of that nicely, but I'd like to do something until then (especially since he's established that the basic idea behind the fix seems to work).  If someone could point me to the relevant CAM data, I'd be happy to use SC4Tool to edit the relevant values into my copy of SimCity_1.dat directly, and to remove the CAM version.  Would someone be willing to do so?