BSC Re-Creations - Dita's Repair Shop

[rickmastfan67]

This is a really interesting thread.

I know of some lots that grow and show up with nothing.  I'll just have to play around in SC4 to see if I can get them to re-grow.  Once I do that, I'll mention them here.

[RippleJet]

I know of some lots that grow and show up with nothing.  I'll just have to play around in SC4 to see if I can get them to re-grow.  Once I do that, I'll mention them here.

Or mention them here: Growing Empty Lots and how to Correct them,
where you can also check if the ones you have might already be listed.

[xxdita]

And we'll need to add that BriPizza's Industrial to the list as well.
Off to work now, but I'll have an update tonight. Glenni, any thoughts on making your school Private?

[dragonshardz]

@rippleJet: The reason some people use invisible buildings is that they have no BAT skills and do not have the original model of the building. That's the situation I'm in, but Glenni, I don't know.

[RippleJet]

@rippleJet: The reason some people use invisible buildings is that they have no BAT skills and do not have the original model of the building. That's the situation I'm in, but Glenni, I don't know.

That's if you only want to use Maxis props, and cannot find a model someone else has used and that you could reuse.
If that's the case, then you should be prepared to create only eyecandy lots (perfect for MD's, but not for public release).



There seems to be a huge misunderstanding about why and when "invisible buildings" can and should be used.

First of all, each lot MUST have one reference to a building exemplar.
A building exemplar is a simple file (descriptor) containing a few properties giving all needed stats for the building (such as capacity, plop cost, consumption, pollution, etc.).

The building exemplar also contains a property called Resource Key Type, which is a reference (pointer) to the actual model.
This model can be in any file in your plugins folder, e.g. in a prop pack or a SC4Model file.

If this file isn't a bat you've created yourself, it will be a dependency that you will have to link your downloaders to.
Note also that a rendered SC4Model is not the same as the original bat, being a gmax or 3dmax file.

The building exemplar is created in the PluginManager, when a model (SC4Model) is dragged into the category you select.
The size of the model (actually the size of its LOD box) determines the values of all properties in the building exemplar that's created (SC4Desc file).

If the Resource Key Type points to a non-existent model or a model that doesn't contain any rendered parts, then we have an "invisble building".
Maxis used this for most parks, where there are no buildings or anything else that needs to be a real model.
This is quite acceptable, since the properties for parks are not dependent on the building (LOD) volume.

However, problems occur when certain batters use invisible buildings on lots having a real building, batted by themselves.
The building would in that case be made into a prop in PluginManager.
But a prop exemplar doesn't contain any properties setting the stats for the building. A prop is only eyecandy.

Thus, the properties still need to be included in the building exemplar, which in this case obviously is copied from another lot.
All property values thus have to be edited manually in Reader afterwards (or be left unedited).

Very few people have the knowledge on how the property values are calculated in Maxis' PluginManager.
Thus, most values would in that case have to be guessed/estimated and based on earlier buildings made by the same person or by Maxis.

When creating the lot in LotEditor, the growth stage is selected based on the values in the building exemplar.
If these haven't been edited fully and correctly before creating the lot, your lot might get the wrong growth stage.
Once you've created the lot, the LE won't change the growth stage, even if you edit the values afterwards.

The extreme result of this is a skyscraper growing on a stage 1 lot.
And yes, Glenni knows a lot about these...

[RebaLynnTS]

I mostly use invisible buildings on my modular sets, but I always make the desc file for them, as well as the base model. As for any stand alone lots, I see no real benefit to invisible buildings, so I guess what I am saying is I completely agree with you.

[rickmastfan67]

Or mention them here: Growing Empty Lots and how to Correct them,
where you can also check if the ones you have might already be listed.

Thanks for the link.  I was just able to grow again the two I knew about for sure and I didn't see them on that list.  I'll go mention them in that thread right now.

[xxdita]

Using invisible buildings is just never a good idea. It can cause problems such as inaccurate stats, and sometimes even worse, the Immortal Lot Syndrome. One of the more experienced lotters seems to be using them lately, not to mention any names, but he's not on the LEX, so no worries. 

So, somebody ordered a BriPizza? 

The original Plop was indeed made with the RCI Blank lot set, to create a "functional" landmark. All of the lots used something called NullBox as the main building, instead of the actual building. This is pretty much the same as using an invisible building, as the stats cannot be accurately figured for the lot.
Of course, RippleJet has gone to the trouble of writing a tutorial on how to fix the Empty Lots, but whenever possible, I cheat. 

Seems a lot easier to use XTool to create a proper building desc.


Next step: fire up Lot Editor, delete the prop building, and replace the NullBox with the actual building.
I was lucky enough to catch one of them growing as I tested out Callagrafx's new prison. 


A nice Stage 8 ID, or a Stage 10 IM lot, and now truly, a functional landmark.
Anyone that has BriPizza's original lot, hang on to the models, except of course NullBox.
Now for a ReadMe, Installer, Cleanitol, and a few tests by the scrutineers, as soon as I wrangle a couple up at least. 

[jmyers2043]

...let me fill you in...

Wow! what a great response. I didn't know any of that stuff and the scary thing is that it all made sense when Ripplej explained it. 

[JoeST]

Interesting technique u have there

some might say its cheating, others would go for initiative...

whatever it is, your doing a good job 

Joe

[Pat]

Nate wonderful job there and at making this function properly!!!  Good luck in getting some of them scrutineers lol

[xxdita]

Jamison Steel Mill is now on the LEX.

[Pat]

woooooohoooooo Congrats Nate!!!

[JoeST]

I love what ur doing here Dita, and I cant wait for more stuff from you, but a suggestion: you should think about including a table of what you intend to do on your first post just for easy reference for people that might want to join in the fun and maybe help you  LOL

Oh and giving your monkey a badge would be great too 

Joe

[jeronij]

The next off topic post in this thread will mean inmediate ban without further advertisement.



Now, please, back to topic. Thanks

jeronij

[dragonshardz]

I echo star.torturer's sentiments. You are most likely one of the few people that could do this. Keep it up my monkey friend!

~~Dragonshardz~~

[xxdita]

BriPizza's Kougyouteki is fixed, and up on the LEX now. http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1573

While checking around his site, getting the link for the Cleanitol, I found a few more RCI Blank lots used for functional landmarks. So that's the next project.

[Pat]

sweeetness thank you Nate for your hard work that you do!!!!   I cant wait to see what you pull out with next into the garage!!!

[CasperVg]

"One of the more experienced lotters seems to be using them lately, not to mention any names"
Except for the 'experienced' part, that seems to be me. Sorry, won't do it again 

Anyways, you're doing a splendid job here, in remodding and repackaging those lots. It was a shame not to have them function correctly.

[xxdita]

Nah, wasn't speaking about you, Casper.
I wouldn't expect anyone to have a perfectly modded lot with their first few tries. Luckily, here, there are plenty of people that can help get any problems sorted out, hopefully before the lot is released to the public. Sometimes even the smallest modding detail, or rushing an upload, can lead to something more serious in-game. A lot either works, or it doesn't.
Most of us here can spot people with talent, and will at least try to guide them in the right direction, and give them our full support, just to be able to get their projects in our game. 
Did I mention it's good to be back home? I could've used the night off to mod something, but nah. Instead, I found more monkeys. Shhh... don't tell Barby.