choco's attempts at BATing bridges

[choco]

@Meastro: not sure if i can get away with that.....but i may try.  the real Saltash Bridge is made of wrought iron and stone, so its really plain grey all and all.  have to see what some community members think, but i tend to agree with ya. 

@ sim-al2: thanks for the kind words.


while searching for more photos of that bridge, i realized i modeled the central pillar incorrectly.  i only saw it from N-S, but an E-W picture shows a compound pylon with 4 octagonal members, not 2    so long as i dont have to remodel the truss', i can deal. 

edit: got the LOD issue fixed with the GHSR truss bridge.  ready to go.....

[choco]

and another.....put together in about an hour.....nothing special, but i was bored......again.....



way too much time on my hands this weekend...

[choco]

i should clarify...these are simply mockups and may resemble a finished bridge, but they are hardly finished....

[rooker1]

Fantastic work on these bridges.  I am so glad to see more bridges in the works again.
Three posts above, I like the over head truss, (is that correct  )
and the last bridge, I like the base, especially the part that is going into the water.

Robin 

[threestooges]

You and your bridges are keeping me busy. I like it. I have a few projects I'm working on today, but I'll get some IDs your way pretty soon here. Your models continue to improve.
-Matt

[choco]

thanks again robin.....appreciate the feedback.  that was a quick model, but its hard to make a nice bridge only using a single piece.  may have to expand my modding capabilites to compensate.

@TS:i almost feel bad matt....

i keep taking time away from your stuff.....you should have seen the .xls.....so you realize the scope of what im trying to accomplish.  kinda hard to do all the BATing, modding, and packaging.  i think i took a dip in the deep end without learning to swim first....

but, this adventure has been fun nonetheless.  once i get the 3-piecers outta the way....then the fun(pain) begins....

[choco]

didn't get much done this weekend....

started retexturing this one......still needs work, but gettin there.

[Andreas]

It is a bit funny to see a modern high speed rail line using an old bridge, but nevertheless, it looks very promising so far.

[rooker1]

I agree with Andreas, maybe you can save that base for something that looks a little more older and try a more modern concrete base for this one.
I really like your work. 
Robin 

[choco]

thinkin about it....i concur.  thanks for the feedback.

the good thing, its not hard to change the network....some small model changes on this one....

[art128]

this bridge is splendid my friend, I like the mix of old with these bricks and modern with the EL-train or HSRP 

[cogeo]

Hmmm, the old/new mix is a bit odd I have to admit. This bridge would only look OK with common rail tracks, I think.

Btw something that makes rail bridges unrealistic is the rail texture, which does include the gravel part. I can't recall a single example of a rail bridge with ballast. Old rail bridges usually had wooden or metal sleepers, and supports (along the bridge) if no other "track bed" is provided; in many cases you can see the river under the bridge! New bridges tend to have metal or concrete sleepers, or (sleeperless) concrete slabs or blocks. Maxis bridges utilise the latter technique (only I can't remember if it's indeed sleeperless, I don't currently have a SC4 installation, you know  ).

Now that you have made special road/track models for nearly any kind of SC4 network, I think it's bloody time for some more serious work with rail tracks. And I think you understand that this is basically Photoshopping, requiring many repeated and exhaustive tests and reviews for optimisation. But as you are making some sort of "essentials" for these, I think it's absolutely worth. So a minimum set should contain:
- At least one texture/prop per track type ie with wooden sleepers, with metal sleepers, with concrete slabs (preferably two or three types), etc and probably one looking like Maxis. A useful texture/prop could be one with the rails only (the slabs or whatever can be modelled instead, so one would need a rails-only good-looking prop to superimpose on the modelled slabs/trackbed). A problem with the SC4 track textures is that the rails aren't all the same, and while this is OK for draggable networks, it causes problems with bridges, as pieces are rotated (I mean basically the end piece) so it's impossible to have a texture that will look OK at both ends of the bridge  ). I think that the best that can be done is... open SC4's rail track texture, pick the most average-looking (neither the brightest/darkest nor the sharpest/blurriest one) track (it will have to be combined with both tracks). Also the alpha mask for these must be carefully-made, I think the rail part should be 100% opaque, and there must be a 1-2 pixels-wide black margin at less opacity. It the margin is 1-pixel wide try setting opacity to 50%, otherwise to 67% for the first pixel and 33% for the second one. This would make the rails clearly visible with any texture (dark, light or mixed) under it.
- Maybe consider making some "transition" textures (for use in the end-piece T21s). The gravel may "enter" a few pixels within the bridge's track and be ended gradually, not abruptly. I'm not sure if this is needed, or it will improve things considerably (if any), but maybe it's worth giving it a try. Also check Maxis bridges carefully and see if it's really good-looking or needs any improvement(s).
- GLR track for bridges should not have ballast either, and please also note that in the last NAM versions it doesn't have ballast at all, except for the rural tracks.

As for the bridge model, there are some issues with the textures:
- The part under the bricks has unrealistically enlarged "details".
- The truss colour changes abruptly from dark to light. What's this? An uneven or non-seamless texture, or a lighting problem?
- The bricks (?) at the narrow part of the support look quite strange.
But as you said, it still needs work.

I think that with the above proposed improvements your bridge will look excellent! 

PS: I had a HD crash recently, and much of my work on SC4 custom content was lost, incl the rail bridge I had started making. Now that this isn't going to be done, I think it would be appropriate to return the IDs that had been reserved for me to the NAM Team. But as you are one of the few still making bridges, it would best to hand them over directly to you instead of bothering jeronij (he will have to assign them anew), unless for some reason he needs them.

[choco]

sorry to hear about the HD crash.....   i know that hurts....i learned from my last scare, and bought a 16GB flash drive to store all my SC4 stuff on.  .....  i remember that rail bridge....'twas the one that got me involved in the modding game.  as far as the ID's, i'm sure i could find a use for them.    i'll let Matt know if you choose to release them to my care.

i'll post the rest of my thoughts once i get home.  just checked the clock, and it almost quittin' time!!

i think what you have proposed here may be a worthy idea; unfortunately, ive never used photoshop.  this is one reason im having problems with textures.....im basically constrained to only using premade textures, and i have used up most of what i have.  from a technical perspective, i understand what you mean, and think it would be a great way to simplify bridge building for others.  i was thinking about this for GLR tracks (not so much rail), as the maxis ELR track model doesn't look good with the GLR textures.  hence my reluctance to submit the GLR bridge thus far.....

i'll get together some tie props in wood, concrete, metal and composite and add them into the common file.....i can use the bridge above to test them.  hopefully, MS paint will be enough.....

wrt the textures above, i tend to use several to see how they look in game, and re-evaluate....most turn out bad like this one.....

thanks for the feedback and suggestions cogeo! 

     

[cogeo]

Making good-looking network textures isn't hard at all, but requires a somewhat more featured image-processing program. It doen't need to be Photoshop (Gimp or PaintShop Pro would also do), but it can't be sth like MS-Paint. For example, you may need to combine the rails (taken from the SC4 dats) with, say, metal sleepers (ties). You may find the the metal texture is too bright or too saturated. Then you have to fix this, but the changes should affect the sleepers part of the texture only (the rails should be left unchanged, so as to match with the network textures). This is not possible in MS-Paint. I think it would be better to ask for help from some community members here. There are many who know how to use the above tools very well - some are professionals. But the best would to leaen some basic image editing; you will have to make many trials, tests and revisions, and this is not easily done via the board or PMs.

[choco]

retouching some of the above....

GHSR


HSR


and a first set of textures on the STR bridge....this is just a preview.

[FrankU]

WOW, the bridge looks great!

About the real bridge: I am really curious what exactly the meaning or purpose of this construction is. It is a quite exceptional bridge, with this very large tube. Is there something interesting inside the tube, or is it just for construction?

[choco]

muchas gracias, FrankU....

the real bridge is the Saltash Bridge (Royal Albert, or Brunel Bridge) over the river Tamar.  finished in 1859 by Islambard Kingdom Brunel, its basically a lenticular truss bridge that was a pioneer in bridge design.  the central arch is a complex truss member encased in wrought iron panels that are riveted together, which is in compression from the force created by the downward pull of the deck below it.  thus, the arch resists the inward pull on the towers.  you can check the wiki, which has a good write-up on the bridge, to for more info.  it really was an engineering marvel in its time, especially considering the arches were built on land, floated on the river, and raised into place.  im considering another of Brunel's bridges later, the predecessor to this bridge. 




im again re-touching the textures on the GHSR bridge above, and correcting a glitch in the model. 

[Pat]

Choco those bridges are simply stunning good job here wow!!! I cant wait to get ahold of them and use them!!!!

[choco]

thanks Pat!  7 down, 13 to go....   first set should be ready soon......need to talk with Matt to work out the details, so stay tuned. 


@cogeo:  i BAT'd some ties; 2 wooden sets, 2 metal, 2 concrete, and 2 composite.  im going to do some testing to see how they look, and ill post some pics once i get a test bridge built.  the rail texture i made looks pretty bad, so unless someone who is photoshop literate wants to lend a hand, the learning curve of texture editing will greatly delay any work for removing ballast from rail bridges.....

i think i'll also BAT some various railing props as well.....

[rooker1]

Hey choco,

This bridge is incredilbe looking, I can't wait to play with it.




Robin