Slightly Off Topic: CITIES XL & Custom Content

[callagrafx]

No ones been sued so far...and there are literally hundreds of trademarks being used both on LEX and STEX for years.  As long as the trademark is not abused or altered then it comes under "acceptable use".  Oh, and a photo is as much a "creation" as a BAT is 

[zero7]

I'm just saying that it's just that you are not allowed to use a trademark without getting their agreement otherwise you would expose yourself to a potential legal issue. 

The reason for raising the realism issue is that people will inevitably want real world brands in the game and whilst trademarks may be an issue for a company - if CXL is successful you make yourself a target for litigious companies - but it is far less of an issue if 100s or 1000s of individuals are producing content - as with the SC4 content it isn't worth pursuing.  Another reason to provide us with the tools to create game objects.

Also a potential legal issue is not the same as a real one.  Better to put the content out there and wait for a cease and desist (that has never come in the case of SC4) than self censor.

[Andreas]

Actually, I'm surprised that companies didn't pick up this idea in order to make money. They basically get advertising for free, and the players would accept it without even thinking about it! If you'd ask a player "Would you accept ads in your game?", the initial reaction is probably "No, of course not! Heck, I paid for the game, and now you want to pave it with ads?", but for us city builders, it just contributes to the realism.

[XiahouDun]

Actually, I'm surprised that companies didn't pick up this idea in order to make money. They basically get advertising for free, and the players would accept it without even thinking about it! If you'd ask a player "Would you accept ads in your game?", the initial reaction is probably "No, of course not! Heck, I paid for the game, and now you want to pave it with ads?", but for us city builders, it just contributes to the realism.

And thus the wonders of product placement advertising. The issue comes up on if the downloads have to be paid for though. If they are making a financial gain on selling a product (the downloads), then it could become a huge issue with other companies. Fan made, free distributed buildings though, like seen in SC4, really don't stand to hurt a company so it would be seen as a low priority. There have been BATers that have recieved attention from local newspapers for recreating landmarks of the city, and to my knowledge nobody has ever recieved a complaint about modeling a companies building with logos included. I obviously can't say it would never happen, but I can see these major companies having bigger fish to fry than someone providing them free positive exposure.

[zero7]

Away from the subject of limitations.  As far as online play is concerned I'm presuming that as well as allowing us to view each other's cities you are planning an economic aspect - such as trade between cities, economic alliances and tourism.

On the last point if your city can make money from tourism - based on real visits from other players - then building a city with a unique architectural style would be a huge attraction.  So, even if MC do insist on converting all models to game objects, will content creators still be able to make buildings for exclusive use in their own cities?

[Zaphod]

You know it's common sense guys.

I don't think a "well we probably won't get caught so it's okay" attitude works for a business that wants to avoid being sued and losing money.

[vil]

Obviously if theres an online persistent world it will have custom content limitations in some form. Functional gameplay will be more of an issue than content.

However if it will not be possible to freely add content to offline games (and probably also "mod" them) I will personaly be very disapointed. Content is more important than gameplay offline.

The pipeline as described above is not great for external "designers". Its much more fun to be allowed to finish the product and then have it "checked" and possibly its "stats" tweaked for online usage, than to have to weave in and out of a pipeline. Cooperation with the game developer is a cool new feature in any case.

So anything involving a trademark is not going to be possible online? Like real vehicles/billboards/trademarked landmarks/etc. - not tragic but definitely sad, this lowers the immersion level by a magnitude.   

[rushman5]

Something I've been wondering for about the past hour is the fact about this whole approval system.  Who is to say that the next "X-tool" won't be produced, giving the bypass to MC's approval system.  I know it'll happen, and it would be most unfortunate if our SimCity community has to go into "underground mode" to avoid problems.  Free and open would eliminate any stemming problems and divides.

A easy program would work.  Say MC makes a program "filterer" that determines building parameters based on size, shape and quality.  If this program was released to the public, every CC creator could filter his/her work through this program and end up with an approved and accurate building.  Yay for everyone.

With the corporate system, either ask McDonald's for permission, they give it to every other yahoo who doesn't bash them (which all the corporate BATs include a long, praising paragraph about the company) or just lightly alter it lke GTA4 has done.  (3 arches instead of 2, McYummy's as a brand name whatev).

As a personal lotter, I am wondering if when these buildings are lotted, will there be certain parameters that fit with the non-grid system?  One idea I had was having a list of prameters, such as

Fence: wood
Enclosed: true
Trees: 3
Biome: temperate
Grass: poor
auto: poor
etc for each prop added to the lot.

This would be like an XML type of formatting, would make us have control over parameters, make variable lots as well as conforming to this non-grid thing.  This would also make lotting much easier and more customizable.  One building could have 3 wealth types, terrain types, whatever is wanted.  Barby may be out of a job, but she could create these distributions, and therefore have a job.

If this doesn't make sense, I think I could re-word it if you don't understand. 

(happy thanksgiving)
-sean

[BarbyW]

As I understood it from the conversation we had, there will be no lots as such. Everything will be part of the major structure of the finished article and so I will be very much out of a job where CitiesXL is concerned

[callagrafx]

As any content would be taken out of our hands by MC for inclusion, I fear that CXL custom content will certainly not be as widespread as with SC4...indeed the process outlined by Philippe would mean only 10-20 people who are making content at present would have the necessary software and knowledge to create the content.

Your LOTing days are certainly far from over....

[Cubbies09]

Maybe Cities XL doesn't need custom content?

We are approaching this game as if it is going to replace "SimCity 4", and therefore we are acting as though it needs everything we know and love, such as Custom Content, in order to be successful. But, we will never replace SimCity 4, it has transcended the boundaries of video games and become something more. For those of you who are extremely active in the community, like teams like BSC HKBAT NHP TG etc., or CJs/MDs [unfortuantly, no nice little 3-4 letter abbreviations here  ] SimCity is no longer just another video game, but rather a legitimate hobby all on its own. In fact, when someone asks what game im playing, i feel inclined to say "not playing a game, im doing somthing in simcity". Its become that great.

So, in order to enjoy CXL, or any city game for that matter, don't compare it to SC4, and don't expect anything similar to SC4, and then you will be able to enjoy it.

[anandus]

I just read the chat, and although I appreciate MC trying to help modders, I don't think they are doing the right stuff.

First off, it's a tedious process, secondly, the lack of actual modding will keep CXL small and limited and thirdly the fact that they choose what is kosher and what is not is quite disturbing. What about Goober's naughty pack? 

So, the only conclusion I can make is that one of the first mods for CXL will be something to add buildings to the game without going through MC.
It's very sad that they don't differentiate online and offline gaming.
I don't see me doing an online game actually, I'm probably and offline gamer mostly, and I won't be the only one.

But to be honest, I haven't read this thread fully, nor the thread at CXL, and these threads are 4 months old, already, so maybe MC is already rethinking their strategy?

[Ennedi]

Maybe we shouldn't judge too early  . There were many thoughtful comments here and as we see, opinions are very different. But Monte Cristo has also some good reasons to go their way. Let's wait for the first release of the new game and we will see it in practice - both the game itself and the development of it's custom content 

Adam

[anandus]

True that, Ennedi.
First see what will happen with the game, then judge it.

I am just fearful about the censorship, lack of control and such.
But we mustn't be too hasty.

On the other hand, MC is really coming forward to the community, and I very much appreciate that!