Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

[thingfishs]

Legend 
Worked perfectly...

[Orange_o_]

For your graphic bug, install the TextureFix in the path: C:\Program Files\gmax\gamepack\bat\scripts\

[thingfishs]

Thanks for that orange (is that what I call you? it just feels weird addressing someone as a piece of fruit, even with all the bizarre usernames people have ) It's now installed.
And thanks again joel

Well a couple days away at my Mum's as well as a visit to the winery itself have paid off. It may seem there's too many tanks now, but this still isn't all of them. In my mind this is looking a lot more accurate now. I have also added quite a few things, both BATted myself and from prop packs, to help add detail, but hopefully not too much. It's clear that there's a delicate balance when "decorating", too much and it starts to feel cluttered pretty quickly. The main area left to do is the gravel area, with various things against the back of the shed as well as the weighbridge.

I'm still trying to understand how best to deal with traffic. The gravel area has to be connected to a road as well as the front area, but needing to make two connecting roads will limit people's ability to place it. Should I just extend the BAT one row to the left and include a purely graphical gravel road that will meet back up to the same road as the front of the winery? Does that make any sense?

   

   

any thoughts?

(I just realised after I posted this that I forgot to change the main building in the LE, so this is still with the super white tanks, however they have been changed.)

[gottago]

Amazing improvement since I last checked in!

Only a few minor things I can see: the brick texture of the plaza is too pink and you could drop the saturation and darken/grey it out a bit. Also the gravel could use some tracks and muddy spots--it's too uniform right now, and it takes up a lot of space. And there's a long red something by the tanks that just looks strange--you don't know what it is, but it really pops out because of its color.

I wouldn't transit-enable the lot personally, as too many TE lots ingame will mess up the traffic sim; people like to do it for the eyecandy effects, but it has a real downside if used too much.

[thingfishs]

Thanks gottago,
any better? (the tracks are clearly too far apart for starters, I'll fix them)
I've added the weighbridge and removed those red "hoses"
Is adding a carpark the same thing as transit enabling?

 

[xxdita]

Is adding a carpark the same thing as transit enabling?

Only if you want it to be functional. 
Have a look at this thread for info on Transit Enabling.

[thingfishs]

Thanks for that xxdita, I have decided to just add car props, that seems like the best way to go.

But as far as the carpark goes I have a dilemma. I want there to be a carpark, but there isn't enough room, so it means having to add another row which results in too much gravel.
Hmmm...

I've also added some various bits & pieces behind the shed.
I'm tempted to say it's just about done, except for timed props (which hooha is helping me with) and the carpark issue.
Any thoughts anyone?

Also I've been building this on a landmark LOT... am I going to have to entirely reLOT this on an agriculture LOT? I want it to be a farming reward.



  

 

[dobdriver]

Very swoopy things, that is just coming along great. I see you've upped production a bit by the look of all them extra tanks. Let's hope the vintage doesn't drop off.

And just because there's extra don't be getting yourself too plastered

take it easy
dobs

[gottago]

Hmmm, that's a heck of a lot of gravel on that lot--it's taking over, and the lot is fast approaching the size usually used for a minor-league stadium. Personally I'd remove the all the gravel strips: at the entrance, beside the line of trees, and just a small access strip at the back, and consolidate all the parking on the side of the lot with the tanks.

May not be exactly as it is in RL but that way, the parking and the pedestrian entrance can both be accessed from one road along the front of the lot, and the green areas will blend nicely with the surrounding terrain. As you've got it laid out now, two sides of the lot would theoretically require road frontage and it's looking a bit strangled by pavement.

[thingfishs]

Thanks for your comments guys

dobs: I favour the port myself, but as it's solely matured in barrels, the increase in wine tanks doesn't affect me too greatly. Actually this still isn't all the tanks that are actually there in RL, here's the google earth shot:



There's 6 full rows of tanks, but I think we've got enough.

gottago: I value your comments and have agonised a bit over how to lay it out. Ultimately I'd really prefer that it's layout is as it is in the real world.
So I've had a go at softening the whole thing down a bit. Have I succeeded enough? Ignore the extra row on the LOT, it's just there because of how I started laying this LOT out, but soon it will be transferred to a new reward one anyway. (thanks to Barby)







The green strips on the perimeter of the gravel are blank and are showing through the base texture. I noticed I wasn't able to put plants on it in game, how would I make it so someone playing could add their own flora if they wanted, or just leave it blank. Are these green strip the way to go?
I have added one of our rainwater tanks and the small shed that accompanies it. It really is that rusty...

My intention is for this to be a farming reward, when enough vineyards grow (which will accompany the winery download) you will get Shottesbrooke. I'm hoping at a later date I can add a local bottle shop as a continuation of the reward chain. Is this doable? (meaning can I release this, have it functioning as a reward, and then in a months time add the bottle shop, or do they all have to be released together?)
Thanks for any and all thoughts and assistance.

[tag_one]

Wow great work I love the model and especially the lot  This will surely make it to my plugins folder.
As for the reward, great idea to add this to a chain! Of course it's possible to extend your reward chain in the future with a bottle shop. It's up to you if you want to upload them together or separately to the LEX.

[gottago]

It's really come an enormous way since you started, great work!

The grass edging goes a long way to soften the gravel and shape the lot. Since it's part of the lot, the only way a user will be able to add greenery is in the LE, so if you think there should be more, put it in now.

Great idea making it a reward, too. 

[Couchpotato]

This looks quite good and like the idea of it being a reward.   Also like the grass edging to soften the gravel.
Really like all the trees and flowers

Not sure about the green tank in the corner.   It looks a bit out of place and not sure of it's purpose.  The
remaining structures look very modern and that looks like someone should be in there stomping on the grapes.
The saturation of the textures causes it to stand out compared to all the gray, silver and soft greens.   

[cogeo]

I like this BAT, however there are some few apparent problems:
- First and foremost, the severe moire effect on the roof. Many BATters have this problem, and I'm not sure how you can get rid of it. It must be a combination of the roof slope, the texture "step" and possibly the material's (image's) resolution and resampling and/or filtering method. Maybe you should ask some experienced BATters on how to overcome this. There must be some methodologies or guidelines here. For example, I haven't seen this problem in ANY of SimGoober's BATs. Ask him (and let us know  ). I think increasing the step a little can help.
- The whole BAT apperars to use the same (or a very slightly modified) texture. For example, the roof and the walls are all of the same metal (or not?). This isn't very pleasant to the eye, I would say provide some little differentiation here, eg some little dust or grit on the roof.
- The texture on the tanks (silos) looks rather badly fitted. It's blurred, and this can be the result of extremely high texture resolution (or high U value in the material), or instead wrong map type. Try using a cylindrical type map, and check the "Caps" check-box (also click the "Fit" button). If this doesn't help with the blurring, reduce resolution (resize) the image outside gmax (in photoshop). Also the tanks look all the same (quite expected  ) you can differentiate them a little by rotating the cylinder (or the map) around the Z-axis (each by a different angle of course).

With these small changes, your BAT could be improved considerably, I believe.

[Couchpotato]

Sometimes trying to duplicate a picture's texture exactly in BAT doesn't work.   Textures can look unreal if they're too pristine. 
Some additional problems: 
#1  The textures don't match on the roof and one side appears to not be mapped correctly.
      Also, is that supposed to be a window at the back of the building? 
#2   The low wall & white tanks appear to not have any texture
#3   The in-ground object has texture problems in one view
#4   There are little greenies growing in your gravel.  Is this on purpose?
You might consider a nice sign out front
Here are some textures you might try... don't know if they'll work or not

[thingfishs]

Thanks everyone for your responses

I'm glad the reward idea has gone down well. But no good rewards come easy and I've sure been finding that out with the main building textures. Despite finding it easier with everything else once I stopped trying to use tiling textures and made full size ones, the reverse has been true with the corrugated iron. The texture I've been using on (yes you're right cogeo ) all of the buildings is a small tileable one. I've made a number of large non-tiling ones but they always come out worse with the corrugated iron, for a reason that I haven't been able to figure out. Here's an example of one of my better! preview renders today using a large texture. (it looks more like a tiling texture than the tiling one!?!) I will, as cogeo suggested, seek some specific help in regards to this "moire" effect (so that's the word, thanks)



Thanks couchpotato & cogeo for your suggestions, I've given them a go. First in regards to the green tank in the corner.

looks like someone should be in there stomping on the grapes. 

This tank really exists, it's just with the regular runoff of water on it's roof, it has developed a rust coating second to none!



I agree that it's colours were way too saturated and I believe the green sides still are too monotone. I also agree that it looks a bit odd off in the corner like that but it is in it's approximate position. Is there a way to make it blend in better?

   

I have also had a go with a new texture for the tanks, instead of the default maxis chrome4 I had been using. You're right about the blurriness of the tanks, I had never noticed that. Although I think I know now why it was happening. They are still blurry now, but to my eyes the third row back isn't blurry. If so then it's because the sphere slices which make the rounded tops of the tanks have been lifted slightly clear of the cylinders of the tanks below. (hmm, they are all looking blurry to me now, it's late I can't tell )



-Just as I'm about to post couchpotato beats me to it, thankyou very much for your effort there, textures and all!, let's see:

1 - yeah the textures are driving me nuts. FWIW the main building is all one piece, so I've been applying one texture to the whole thing and then via mapping and the gizmo tool have tried to make it look as good as I could, but one side or more always pays the price. What is the best way to isolate the seperate sides of a single object for texturing? And yeah, it's a window, I keep forgetting about it... (I haven't done any night lights yet either)

2 - guilty as charged, you've got a keen eye, I will fix them.

3 - Yeah I know, I had lifted the weighbridge 0.1 but now have 0.2 and it seems to be sorted. However there are a couple of new patches of it on the main ground texture (in front of the tanks), which is already lifted to 0.2m which I believe is the maximum I can lift it and still place props on it

4 - Yeah the "greenies" are on purpose, but I may be taking realism a little too far. They are representing the weeds that inevitably pop up here and there, even through the gravel. But if they look wrong then maybe I'll pull a few up.

Thanks again for those textures, I'm keen to have a go. A sign, of course!, great idea!

Thanks everyone for their input, you only have to check page one of this thread to see what this building would have looked like without your help.

 

[Couchpotato]

Corrugated textures can be a challenge under the best of circumstances but when you try and do a solid building it just won't work.
You can either remodel the building using a spline method, or one where the roof is separate from the walls, or use a multi-subobject
texture method.   



Possible texture for the green tank

Edit:  after looking at your building reference on the first page, I'd leave the green tank out.
It's not part of the main building section, just a tank off to the side.   Just a suggestion 

[jmyers2043]

Hello Thingfish

This is a nice concept. I once tried to do some winery buildings but they didn't turn out too good so they never left my HD. But I'm tempted again seeing how yours is turning out.

I think it's easy to make dirty rusty metal textures. Clean metal textures are harder to do and make look right. I've avoided them in the past. Until I got this one. It is tile-able. You should be able to repeat it without too much difficulty. It would not be a good roof texture. I'll hunt around and see what I can come up with.



BTW - What Paint program do you have? Many here at SC4D have the more expensive Photoshop. I use the moderately priced Paint Shop Pro. I only ask because it's easier giving advise if I know your capabilities.

<edit>

I've had a second look at one of the pictures. I think the side of this building looks pretty darn good. And I'd not use the above texture on it. Maybe on one of the other smaller structures.

[thingfishs]

thank you very much to couchpotato and jmyers for your input and in particular the textures .

Well I weighed up my options and it seemed easier just to make the building again as separate walls etc so that's what I have done, although the roof on the main building is a little sunken which I will fix (which is making the gutters protrude). I think the building textures are now looking a lot better, and I have a lot more control over them so it's much easier swapping things around. I have mainly used your third corrugated texture couchpotato, as well as the first one on the walls of the smaller building. However I think the smaller building particularly still needs work, there's too obvious a line between light and dark. Any thoughts?

I have also included a shot I took recently of the winery wall.


 



jmyers: I use photoshop. I for one would love to see more wineries, I can't have a wine region with 2 wineries.
So certainly I encourage you to dust it off one day, but not before your fruit trees
BTW if anyone knows of any wineries other than my one and this one http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=178 could you please let me know.

couchpotato: In regards to the green tank, it looks better with the texture you supplied but... I hear what you're saying about it being out of place, it's basically only there to fill up some space. I just need to think of something else to go there.

[thingfishs]

Hi,
I've played around some more with the textures of both buildings, it's getting there. Also I've played around more with the tank textures which I think are looking a lot better, thanks cogeo.

   

Also I've started to learn how to night light, but haven't got anything to show for it yet. I am very much trying to do a re-creation here, but am willing to stretch the truth a little for the game. As far as night lights go there aren't many. Certainly there are no inside lights on at night, and most of the outside lights are motion controlled. I've added a light fixture where it is in RL (just next to the chimney) but then realised the problem. The smaller building where the light is, is separate to the ground prop that I want it to shine onto. Can this be done, and if so how? Also what form of light, omni, target spot etc, would you recommend?

(edit) I will add that for two months of every year (harvest time, or as it's known in wineries, vintage) the whole complex is lit up like a christmas tree, however I know that can't be replicated (well at least I'm pretty sure I've been told it either can't or is not worth the trouble) But maybe it's better to do the lit up version rather than having just a spotlight or two?