Hello dear SC4D members ;D
I know its been a while since my last custom content release, but I can tell you that I am seriously involved in many group SC4 related projects ;D
But this time I will go for a personal one.... a long time wished, and hopefully finally true ::) . The lack of surface water has always been one of the biggests lacks of the game. We made some attemps to bypass this limitation creating the plopable water, which has been proven to be really helpful and flexible for many users.
However, the biggest complaint about this water was always the unrealistic look. It gives you the idea that there is water there, but it is not realistic.
So I always wanted to create something more nice :P . And yesterday, thanks to a profitable conversation with Cogeo ( A BIG THANKS from here :thumbsup: ) , he teached me how to make my idea a reality ()stsfd()
This is the old known plopable water. There are several version of this, but I choosed this one for the example. You will see that the colour of the water is irrelevant at the moment.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test01.jpg)
The idea is that you see how the plopable items fit with that water.... You can also not see the bottom of the water.... &mmm
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test02.jpg)
But, what if we try another approach ?¿
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test03.jpg)
I show the grid here just to give you an idea about the terrain used.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test04.jpg)
The closer we go, the more noticeable the difference is....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test05.jpg)
This is a test city, and the idea is to see how the existing plopable flora fits with this water....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test06.jpg)
The water comes in lots. Due to the semi-transparent nature of the water, we can not make it plopable, due to graphical glitches when the props overlap. Using lots, this will not happen, but this will also limit the flexibility of the streams and rivers.... ::)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test07.jpg)
I think most of the plopable items do fit properly, and the look is nice...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test08.jpg)
Many pieces will be needed for such a set, something like a canal set.....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test09.jpg)
But I think the effort will be worth it....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test10.jpg)
You will have to excuse the poor test pieces... they dont fit properly, but are enough to test the idea ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test11.jpg)
So, what do you dear members think about this ?¿, can be it called an improvement, or a step backwards ( going back to lots ::) )
Feel free to share your feedback :thumbsup:
I have extracted some rules you should keep in mind when using the plopable ( transparent ) water :
1) DONT USE IT IN AN UNREALISTIC WAY $%Grinno$% . Specially when it comes to the slopes. The real water does not stay quiet on the slopes. It drains the terrain and creates rapids, waterfalls, canyons and such naturall accidents, which you also should try to re-create when you plan your rivers, streams and humid zones. The real water stays quiet only in mainly flat terrain.
2) Use anything to cover the water shores. Natural flora props ( trees, bushes, rocks...) or man made props/lots like walls, parks and such. Combine them. In the reallity, again, the water bodies are always surrounded by something. Usually flora, but also human constructions.
3) Use the smaller pieces posible, specially on slopes, to avoid graphic glitches, and the limit the number of pieces to the minimum. If you can draw a stream with ten (10) pieces, dont use 15 or 20 . It will increase the chance for graphic glitches to occur.
4) At the furthermost zoom levels, the LODs are not controllable, and the water looks like squares. If you followed the rules above, this should not be that much visible, but if you make a big open water body, it will probably look ugly from these zoom levels ( 1 and 2).
5) Accept the limitations of the plopable water. In fact, to simulate water in a realistic way in this game, we would need a whole engine for it. It is perfectly understable ( perhaps not so forgiveable ::) ) the reasons why Maxis discarted this option.
And with these rules in mind, I think you can enjoy the plopable water in a reasonable way ;)
You sneaky old fox :o IMO this is better than previous ploppable water because I hated when they didn't go as I wanted and created irregular shapes and such things. Keep doing this jeronij, you got my support :thumbsup:
:shocked2:
God, just when I thought it couldn't get any better! &apls &apls &apls
jeronij, is it possible to create a variety of lots of varying transparency to transition from shallow to deeper water? Also would it be possible to create lots with partial water and partial total transparency so we get a more natural edge to our waterways? &idea Perhaps the edges could have the quality (whatever it's called) that bridge abutments have in the game where the edges disappear into higher terrain thus giving us irregular shorelines.
what you have shown shows great promise. As always your work amazes me. &apls
Keep up the great work. I will be following your progress closely. This may enable me to create the region of the Pontiac where I need to have several different levels of the Ottawa River including falls and rapids. Existing water plops are too dead looking for my purposes.
This could be the major breakthrough many of us have been dreaming of. Awesome! :thumbsup:
This water is an excellent idea! &apls
But in my opinion two things will be absolutely necessary:
1. more diversified stuff to create sides (irregular, but looking as you want). You can say we have some stones and flora yet. Yes, but it is very little collection. In addition, most of this stuff doesn't match with many terrain mods and with other flora. But I think it isn't a problem - there are a lot of talented people here (sorry I will be able to help if I will learn it ;))
2. Making these pieces ploppable in water. Every of us know how important are transitions from canals to the ingame water for many players. I am sure there will be the same situation with the new water.
I am sure this idea is worth of developing. But i am also sure the old ploppable water can be improved (Bengt said about an important problem, from this point of view Jeronij's/DT water is much better than Scorchin's water) and I think the old water still has a big potential :)
If you will need some help with testing, I can do it
Good luck!
Excelente trabajo amigo, me gusta mucho tu idea &apls :thumbsup:
Jeroni, you and cogeo have done it again. This looks absolutely fantastic.
-Alex (Tarkus)
It does look Fantastic...
I appreciate all the work you guys do in creating content for the community.
I'm not sure if its a step forward or backward..
As I think this will be a great asset for creating canals and long straight rivers that split many cities.
But.
I love the ploppable water far much more for creating winding rivers and streams in my cities, even without the transperancy of those plops.
Hello and thanks to all for the feedback ;D
All this sample was done with a single 16x16 squared piece ::) , I mentioned above that more pieces would be needed to give it more flexibility when it comes to irregular shapes ;)
I will work some more with this and post some pictures soon :thumbsup:
that really does look like something else jeroni :thumbsup: great work and i cant wait to use it
Wow, that looks great, transparent ploppable water. :thumbsup:
The fact that I stopped using ploppable water was that it stands out to much in regional view, looking to unnatural.
If it's possible could you give us a taste how it looks from region view? :)
This looks very promising, Jeroni, and I like the transparency in particular. I look forward to seeing the progress on this.
This does look very promising.
I can't believe after all these years we are still learning new thing about the game everyday.
I think this will be a super improvement over waht we have now. But I do echo some of the concerns the others have. I sure you will figure them all out.
&apls &apls &apls
Robin :thumbsup:
&apls
This does look very intriguing and I think it could be a very valuable addition to the game. The only thing that I'm thinking is that we can no longer use the plop flora to hide imperfections and "create" the river bank. However, I think the entire concept is a good one and should be looked into further. Great idea.
I'm out here and will be commenting at length. I'm having a serious RL week, and need to attend to that first.
Watch this space.
David
uuuh, not really, i'm not to sure if it would look that good, because with that method, it would look too linear, and i don't think any iregular end pieces would make it any less linear. &mmm
Jeroni, hmmm I have a mix of emotions on this... One is OMG great and the other is OK now what? I understand this is still in the devolpment phase of it but.... Even when all pieces are said and done its a lot. Would this be in the mayor god menu or would it be in the mayor parks menu? Im a little wearry of it honestly but some stuff that has me excited it does look like real water with the transperancy that you cant get with PW... Jeroni this does hold promisses and a good devolpment i will be certain to follow here.....
OK, some initial thoughts as I wait for my next appointment to arrive. Jeroni, I presume that what you have is a lot that is transparent and the "water" is a building or a prop BATted in such a way as to give the illusion of depth. The work, btw, is beautiful- you don't need to take that end of things much further...
I'm assuming that the footprint of the water prop (I'll call it a prop for the sake of simplicity) is very tiny, which allows other ploppables to be placed on the lot more or less at will. That effect, btw, is also beautiful.
The prop "overhangs" its base all the way out to the edges of the lot. When the lot is perfectly flat this works perfectly, except for the completely linear shore, which is the big drawback as things are currently conceived. When the lot is inclined on a hill, the top of the prop, which remains "level," draws back from the edges of the lot, leaving the margins seen in several of the pics. I see that as being addressable with careful terraforming, although it would appear to limit the ability to make water flow "downhill" unless special lots were developed, such as ones that incorporated rapids or waterfalls.
My initial idea is to make the water prop overhang the lot on both sides with an irregular shoreline on both sides in one axis. I don't have the easy ability to draw or scan a diagram of what I mean here at work, but basically you could make three or four variations of these, all with the overhangs coming out so that when you strung the lots together, they would form a continuous shoreline. The lots, when placed abutting each other, could be varied and also flipped end-for-end so as to avoid have the irregularities in the shoreline become repetitive. Careful creation of the stream's bed, with rising banks on each side, might also be used to add some variation. This would work well for long straight streams, I think, but, alas, such straightness is not usual in the real world. Curves and diagonal lots would also be necessary- like you said, this effort would involve a bunch of lots.
...note that I didn't say a lot of lots- thought about it, though...
A second idea would be to leave the lots as is and somehow create "shoreline" ploppables that would, when placed, allow creation of the irregular shoreline by virtue of which one and where each would be plopped. These would have to be done to match a number of different game environments- CP's various terrains and the "game terrain" would be a good place to start. Again, I can't create a graphic here, but will do that on getting home. This approach would have the additional benefit of allowing streams to be created that would be less than 50 feet/16 meters (the width of a gridsquare) in width. One of my biggest issues with the current PW stuff is that the ploppables themselves are too big and clumsy.
Either one of these approaches would allow a nice margin of trees and shore flora to be placed in a way that would create a much more realistic looking bank.
Or, I could be all wet (oooh!) about this stuff, and be guessing wrong from the get-go.
In any event, Jeronij, hats off to you! This would be a project well worth exploring, and I will add to what I've said here in a few hours.
David
Hello again and thanks to all ( specially David) for your feedback and suggestions :thumbsup:
I spent last night making a second lot for the set. A "shore" one, which rotates 11 different shore sections. You can see the idea on the left side of this picture:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg258.imageshack.us%2Fimg258%2F4149%2Fjrjplopwaterv2test12we2.jpg&hash=3a356e74348b623f0fd939605ae2b604ce349255)
All these single shorelines have been placed with a single lot.
In this other picture you can see how the new lot joins the original one, with the idea of make it irregular....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F5019%2Fjrjplopwaterv2test13jpgyn7.jpg&hash=158d4366645257148c635b8b1ca2a8d38c8552ff)
However, due to the transparency, the models do not fit nicely.... if I make them bigger, the crossings between the tiles are more visible.... if I make them smaller, the terrain can be seen under the pieces... if I leave it this way, it does not look right, and the more I zoom out, the worst ::)
I will carefully read and try your suggestions, and I will keep you informed about the result of the testing... ;)
Btw, David, you are right in most of your assumptions... good eye :thumbsup:
Jeroni,
Definitely the transparent effect is beautiful. What ever direction this project is going, it will be something useful.
Another question that comes up: I have been looking for plopable flora, but could only find trees and rocks (a lot of them), but on your pictures I see shrubs and waterlillies.... Can you tell me where to find them?
Quote from: FrankU on October 05, 2007, 08:17:40 AM
Jeroni,
Definitely the transparent effect is beautiful. What ever direction this project is going, it will be something useful.
Another question that comes up: I have been looking for plopable flora, but could only find trees and rocks (a lot of them), but on your pictures I see shrubs and waterlillies.... Can you tell me where to find them?
Some of them can be found at Gizmo's home (http://gizmo.lunarpages.com/index.php) ;)
Wow, I love the concept! It reminds me of something I experimented on recently....more on that later.
Are the pieces actually transparent, or are those just "specialized" pre-rendered items? If they are truly transparent, I'd hope that you'd make a tutorial or something of the like in the future. ;)
Anyway, here's a picture of my experimental pieces, with a STRONG emphasis on the word "experimental". There are indeed eyecandy only, but I could probably make even more extensive and realistic pieces if Jeronij would spill the magic beans regarding this new trick. ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg234.imageshack.us%2Fimg234%2F9210%2Fdtwaterexp001gw4.jpg&hash=5798b53ec1432466984a0f05eee634bba596f8a0)
DT those rocks are totaly wicked wow... Also your PW is something else sweeeet...
Oh my goodness. This would be a fantastic addition to the game.
I really must congratulate everyone who creates new and exciting things for the game, unfortunately I cannot and I am therefor confined to displaying them in a suitably glorious fashion.
I await further news on this and look forward to using it, a very long overdue addition to the game.
At this moment DT's proposition looks much more promising (although the water surface is still "dead"), but the problem isn't easy and I must think about it much more. (Edit: I must say I was really excited seeing DT's picture :D)
I would like to suggest you to make a few steps back, to the first Jeronij's question: what to do to make the water surface more realistic?
So, what water features decide about it's realistic (or unrealistic) look?
Is it transparency?
Or wavy texture (different from the sea surface of course!)?
Or light and shade?
I suggest to open Google, choose "Graphics" and write "lake" and then "river". You will see a lot of water surfaces. How many pictures shows the transparent water? And under wchich conditions?
I downloaded some pictures from Google this way, but I don't want to waste the space in Jeronij's thread. Do it yourself ;)
At this moment I don't want to formulate any definitive opinions. Questions are better now ;D
That's why I posted here; I want to perhaps work with Jeronij a bit to see what we can come up with regarding this project. ;)
As stated beforehand, the image I showed contains experimental pieces only. However, if one were to attempt to make the surface of the water more alive, some difficulties may arise, such as tiling, etc. Many other issues also are present; both known and unknown Alas, such are the shortcomings of SC4, and BAT...
OK, here's variant 1 of the ideas I threw out here yesterday [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2581.msg77872#msg77872).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg230.imageshack.us%2Fimg230%2F309%2Fidea01vb0.png&hash=0b89153606be07bfbf481b2a05c567601caf0135)
...that's pretty rough, eh?
I can see from Jeroni's subsequent post that he is taking the approach of having gridsquare size "center stream" tiles and gridsquare size "bank" tiles for each side. What I've done above is do one stream width prop per running gridsquare. His approach would be more flexible from the standpoint of making streams of various widths (ignoring the substantial problem of how to transition from wider to more narrow, and vice versa), whereas mine would involve fewer lots at the cost of that flexibility.
As for curves, it would seem to me that 3x3 or 4x4 (or even larger) gridsquare lots with one big "curve" prop on it would work. Using the larger lot would provide for the precise positioning that would be necessary and allow for more gentle and irregular curves.
A few thoughts and questions.
I can see that unless the streambed is absolutely flat, neither Jeroni's approach or mine will work because of artifacting where the props overlap or gaps where they don't. This plays heck with rivers and streams, but I don't see why right now that we couldn't be doing lot-based small irregular ponds and lakes. Just terraform a nice flat area, plop in your 7x4 pond and, bingo, you are ready to go. Jeroni?
I don't know enough about what Jeroni is doing to figure out whether his props could be made ploppable without using a lot as a base. If so, the more meticulous among us might be willing to expend the time and patience to make these props line up just so. Again, lots of stuff for no reason apparent to me can be made ploppable, so this just might not be possible.
What about making long stretches of linear lot-based streams, say 10x2 or 10x3, and then trying to come up with something to address the far fewer number of gaps (thinking about it, it is unlikely overlap is a problem, as a horizontal prop centered on an inclined gridsquare, the way the game works, will not reach either two or four of the edges)? I'll draw another diagram when I have some time.
I'll come back, too, with a diagram of the second variant- ploppable banks.
Later.
David
Quote from: Ennedi on October 05, 2007, 09:07:26 AM
I suggest to open Google, choose "Graphics" and write "lake" and then "river". You will see a lot of water surfaces. How many pictures shows the transparent water? And under wchich conditions?
I downloaded some pictures from Google this way, but I don't want to waste the space in Jeronij's thread. Do it yourself ;)
I don't think the purpose is to create rivers or canals [we have them allready] but more for small/shallow streams, small ponds etc.
Like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bijbart.com%2Fimages%2Fstroomje1.JPG&hash=c079aca4be7166b4a7beaf8223e99352081da7ae)
defenetly transparent. ;)
Quote from: LoneRanger on October 05, 2007, 10:10:36 AM
I don't think the purpose is to create rivers or canals [we have them allready] but more for small/shallow streams, small ponds etc.
Like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bijbart.com%2Fimages%2Fstroomje1.JPG&hash=c079aca4be7166b4a7beaf8223e99352081da7ae)
defenetly transparent. ;)
As for small streams/ponds you are absolutely right. But even if it would be the only purpose of making new water pieces, it wouldn't be such easy.
Look at your picture. In the terms of SC4 you are in the closest zoom, aren't you? And now think how will it look from bigger distance - you definitely will not see the rocky stream bottom. You will see something completely different.
As for the purpose of this work: Yes, we have canals, but we haven't rivers (above the sea level) and lakes. These are large surfaces and this is a real challenge :)
wow. looks really promising.
A one liner i have to say " gentlemen start your engines " This idea is really flying off... Now only if Jeroni, DT, and David would work together i bet you all my membership that they would make this work and do a darn good justice at it as well....
Quote from: patfirefghtr on October 05, 2007, 01:26:28 PM
A one liner i have to say " gentlemen start your engines " This idea is really flying off... Now only if Jeroni, DT, and David would work together i bet you all my membership that they would make this work and do a darn good justice at it as well....
Yes Pat, and you and me will have to rebuild all our lakes, rivers and waterfalls... :D But with he new good stuff I will do it with pleasure, and you too, I suppose ;)
I love this idea. This is what ploppable water was missing. I think David is on to something as to how the pieces could be made. All you guys amaze me with the talent you have.
---Gaston
The amount of awesome new things I discover here daily is astounding - and I'm once again crawing around on the floor, searching for my jaw that has dropped once again. The transparent ploppable water looks very promising, and (needless to say) a hundred times better than the previous attempt. DuskTrooper's pic looks very promising, too, and those trees have caught my eye (are those available anywhere?) as well.
Hello to all and sorry for the late reply :-[ , but investigating and managing things to work takes some time ;D
DT, your experiment is really looking nice. The combination of the water and the rocksbed is really realistic :thumbsup: . I learnt the tricks to make this possible from Cogeo ( THANKS again :thumbsup: ), but the original technique does not work properly with this idea, so I am in the process of polishing this technique. I will PM you some info about the process, so you can also experiment with it. Once we understand how it works, we will post a tutorial with the permission of Cogeo of course ;)
David, I hope the following picture saves you some more hi-res graphics ;D :D :D
I understand all your comments and concerns.... "We dont want anything new. We want the same, but better" ... I have been working several hours searching the way to fix some issues... fortunately the game is complicated enough to allow you to figure out an alternative way to mod it ::) , I finally went into this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg172.imageshack.us%2Fimg172%2F3969%2Fjrjplopwaterv3test01xl4.jpg&hash=0f4ab7a60c1405cb78c3f4255e3646c89ba5e058)
I hope you can excuse the poor quality of the scene, and you can see the potential of the plopable transparent water . Did I say plopable ?¿. Yes I DID &dance %BUd% :party: ¡¡¡
He he he, I know the crappy picture above does not give a good idea of the situation .... ::)
Now, let me introduce you the transparent plopable water, in a more elaborated scenario. It took me less than 15 minutes to create this.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test02.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test03.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test04.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test05.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test06.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test07.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test08.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test09.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test10.jpg)
No terraforming at all. Plain terrain. I hope you like it now, and you find it an improvement ;D
Jeroni, if that's what it looks like, today will rate right up there with the day they released the first NAM, and CAM day.
WOOT!
On my way home.
David
Words don't express how amazing that is.
I'm definitely one of those plopable water fanatics, and this will revolutionize the way I play.
I second David on this:
Quote from: dedgren on October 05, 2007, 05:45:32 PM
WOOT!
Great work, Jeroni. :)
Das Uberwoot, I say!
I tested the tutorial you gave me, and it worked! There are a few kinks I have to work out regarding the modeling itself (location above grade, etc...) but this is a major breakthrough! This plop water sure has come a long way since when we came up with it over 2 yrs ago (if anyone can remember ;))...
Quote from: dedgren on October 05, 2007, 05:45:32 PM
WOOT!
This is beyond just Woot, this is Jeroni winning 1 internet :D
Fantastic work, not much more I can say other than that.
Quote from: DuskTrooper on October 05, 2007, 05:55:21 PM
Das Uberwoot, I say!
I tested the tutorial you gave me, and it worked! There are a few kinks I have to work out regarding the modeling itself (location above grade, etc...) but this is a major breakthrough! This plop water sure has come a long way since when we came up with it over 2 yrs ago (if anyone can remember ;))...
Of course we can remember... but... 2 years ago already ??? ¡¡¡
I am glad the tuto worked fine. I placed the models 4 meters up (z axis) before to render them. If you use the same height, the possible future waters will be compatible ;)
I am glad you like how it looks like now David, Travis and XiahouDun :thumbsup: . I used two plop mods for the pictures, one 1x1 and on2 2x2, I hope you can notice the different widths ;) .I plan to make a 3x3 and a 1/2x1/2 additional plop mods in the same colour to finish the set. However, I still have to test how the transparent lots behave in slopes and with the in game water ::) ... I will keep you informed ;)
Awesomeness! This is worthy of an award! Hello EA?
Until next time...
Joan
think i just made uh oh in my pants after seeing those pics Jeroni :-[ whats never after this waterfalls? ;) looking forward for what you got for us next! :thumbsup:
Quite incredible, definitely worthy of the title "One of the Best Projects EVER"
;D &apls Sticky this thread, cause this stuff is, is, I can't describe it because it's so good! ;D &apls
WOOT!
Thanks,
sc4luv2
%%Order?/ %%Order?/ %%Order?/ I'm so happy.
Brilliant. Simply Brilliant. I don't know what else I can say, but thank you for your hard work on this.
Okay this stuff is
IN - FREAK"N - CREDIBLE !!!!!!
You guys ROCK !!!!!!!
---Gaston
ooorales, muy bien hecho... i really like this new plopable water, even more with that transparency &apls &apls
This. Is. AMAZING!
Great work, Jeroni. My recreation of Jackson becomes more feasible every day...
Cheers,
Kevin
Jeroni, you've really outdone yourself this time. Words cannot describe how awesome this is. :thumbsup:
-Alex
I've never been a big fan of the solid ploppable water but this is something else... &apls
Quote from: jeronij on October 05, 2007, 04:59:03 PM
Now, let me introduce you the transparent plopable water, in a more elaborated scenario. It took me less than 15 minutes to create this.
*Packs his bags and starts walking* I've seen it all now! $%Grinno$% $%Grinno$%
OMG Jeroni! You do not KNOW or begin to UNDERSTAND or GRASP what this means to me! :shocked2: It is simply AMAZING! ;D :thumbsup:
&apls &apls &apls
I've never used ploppable water as it always looked dead but this really is something else.
Well done, Jeroni. &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
It's a very good direction, it can be an excellent tool &apls &apls &apls
I think placing models 4 meters up is very important, could you explain what is a purpose of it?
There isn't anything I can add in superlatives that hasn't already been expressed. I will just give one very large thumbs up.
:thumbsup:
Everything I disliked about the plopable water is being solved by your new water. Thanks, you should be able to guess what I wanted to say... the same as everyone else here. Simply amazing.
Thanks for your link to Gizmo about the plopable flora. I found it.
Whooooooa, now that is something!!!!! :thumbsup:
It certainly is looking great!
A question, is the color (tint) of the water, built into the ploppable water itself,
or does it take attributes from whatever water mod is installed?
&apls Congratulations. That solves a huge problem for many CJers. Very goodl, indeed. &hlp
Hello to all and thanks for the encouragement :thumbsup:
Of course this will not be the so desired surface water ( that one that Maxis should have provided ::) ), but I think it will be a nice and useful set for medium/advanced players.
Someone asked about a regional view, so before I forget....
In this picture you can see a regional view showing streams made with the four different PW sizes included in the mod.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_00.jpg)
I have been testing the mod with sloped terrain ( some adjustements were necessary, but even so the mod is not as terrain conforming as I would desire ::) ). I have also tested how it fits with the water, but due to the way it is rendered, as soon as it goes under the water, it suddenly dissapears.... the water is there but it can not be seen.....I cant figure out a solution for that, because other worse graphical glitches would happen if I change the actual settings &mmm . I think we will have to live with it, unless someone figures out a solution ;)
I started another test, this time in a more hilly terrain. There are the pics of the first steps....
Some terraforming the river bed, and placing the water tiles. I also used one of the water effects I released some time ago to make the waves show. I have to say that a picture does not make justice to the sensation that this really gives you when you see it "alive" $%Grinno$%
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_01.jpg)
After some trees I started to add a grass shoreline. Only this extra step gives the water much more deepness and 3D sensation.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_02.jpg)
This is a small test waterfall I made... the result is not great, but better that with the previous water ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_03.jpg)
A river junction. Again I say that you have to see this in your cities. The waves give it a great sensation of movement ()stsfd() ¡¡¡¡
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_04.jpg)
However, if you abuse of this effect, and you dont have a powerful computer, your city may start to lag.... :D :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_05.jpg)
A rear shoot on the waterfal....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_06.jpg)
And a final one, wher you can hopefuly notice the terrain slope ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V3_Test2_07.jpg)
After the first hours playing with this water I have to say that it will not be so easy to place as the original one, but nothing that can not be managed with a bit of practice :thumbsup:
Oh, I forgot to mention, the water colour does not change depending on the water mod you use, but depending on the terrain mod. The darker the terrain, the darker the water. I will also try to release another two neutral colours, brownish and greenish, to give more variety.
Quote from: Ennedi on October 06, 2007, 02:50:41 AM
It's a very good direction, it can be an excellent tool &apls &apls &apls
I think placing models 4 meters up is very important, could you explain what is a purpose of it?
I know this firsthand; you need the water to be 4 M up, or else it will be below any props you place; they won't be below the surface of the water.
I can't wait for more progress! :thumbsup:
This is just another reason that we shouldn't quit SC4 yet!
I love this! &apls
/me being the one that asked for a regional picture is more than pleased. :)
It seems that it doesn't stand out so much as before but I allready guessed, especialy after your previous pictures.
Besides, it looks excelent on "city-view" so even if it standed out a little on region-view I still would use it. :)
I'm verry curious about the ingame water-effect you mentioned.
Even I might be plopping some water in the future... this is looking very good, Jeronij! &apls
Hey Jeronij,
Is this still a Ploppable LOT? If so, and the this water plane is a prop on the lot, try playing with the Slope Property in the Prop Exemplar, it should allow the prop to conform to slope. Im sure you knew this, but I thought Id throw out this idea in case you forgot.
BTW it looks AWESOME!! Keep up the good work.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg370.imageshack.us%2Fimg370%2F2369%2Fjawdroplg8.png&hash=ef16c7938e4de42f89623672a5ab027a2ea6a861)
Words fail me...
David
^^ amen...
This is simply awesome beyond belief. :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagecache2.allposters.com%2Fimages%2Fpic%2F54%2F039_20147%7EChuck-Norris-Posters.jpg&hash=151ba07a8918699a7b07038f37044b0826e5cf6f)
^ Jeronij's real identity has finally been uncovered. Only Chuck Norris could have conceived of something this amazing.
Fred
Quote from: douwe on October 03, 2007, 04:19:56 PM
jeronij, is it possible to create a variety of lots of varying transparency to transition from shallow to deeper water? Also would it be possible to create lots with partial water and partial total transparency so we get a more natural edge to our waterways? &idea Perhaps the edges could have the quality (whatever it's called) that bridge abutments have in the game where the edges disappear into higher terrain thus giving us irregular shorelines.
Could this be done using a simple (or somewhat more sophisticated) opacity map for the alpha, ie a gradient from black to white (or preferably darker gray to lighter gray)? If this works it would make a great difference I think.
Incredible !!
i have no words..
this is awesome &apls &apls
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Ennedi on October 05, 2007, 01:49:29 PM
Yes Pat, and you and me will have to rebuild all our lakes, rivers and waterfalls... :D But with he new good stuff I will do it with pleasure, and you too, I suppose ;)
Adam after seeing whats been done since you posted OMG... There is no supposing about cause yes i am willing to start fresh and rebuilding with the new stuff.....
jeroni you cease to amaze me wow my hats are laid down to you sir...............................................................................
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg370.imageshack.us%2Fimg370%2F2369%2Fjawdroplg8.png&hash=ef16c7938e4de42f89623672a5ab027a2ea6a861)
Oh what amazing skills you have Jeroni &apls &apls
Have to give you a (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg152.imageshack.us%2Fimg152%2F2651%2Fkaffe06ut5.gif&hash=b712f75428e987c8f6b0e93298c7ff4cbdaf43f8) for such amazing work :thumbsup:
This is going to change the look of the game forever - Thank you
:satisfied:
TTC
Quote from: freedo50 on October 06, 2007, 11:43:48 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagecache2.allposters.com%2Fimages%2Fpic%2F54%2F039_20147%7EChuck-Norris-Posters.jpg&hash=151ba07a8918699a7b07038f37044b0826e5cf6f)
^ Jeronij's real identity has finally been uncovered. Only Chuck Norris could have conceived of something this amazing.
Fred
Now Al Gore claims that he invented the Internet, Chuck Norris, and Jeronij. :P
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg530.imageshack.us%2Fimg530%2F2648%2Fgorethumbsupam1.jpg&hash=65e35f17a1c11defbdc22864e4ec93349f031b8c)
EDIT: And, DT, wouanagaine [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=238.0) invented Al Gore. -DE
ummm soo not right lol
A little different approach than Jeroni's. I was interested in the transition from game to PW, and in stream junctions.
These are extremely quick and dirty. I note that I was not able to use my lot-based PW effects in the limited amount of time I had to try. The terrain is "vanilla" Columbus.
#1
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg210.imageshack.us%2Fimg210%2F2043%2Fjrpw01ig0.jpg&hash=7bfb57e915b5f3bbfcb1430fdebd46e94eaa6775)
Notice the shore of the lake developed square artifacting at this zoom level. Jeroni mentioned an issue with that.
#2
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg233.imageshack.us%2Fimg233%2F3205%2Fjrpw02xd9.jpg&hash=959332d03fc932da4aaa3dbea4326e628ccbcfad)
Upstream into game water. That's PEG's "Brigantine" surface effect and Timotheus4's Edmonton color.
#3
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg237.imageshack.us%2Fimg237%2F2540%2Fjrpw03hq1.jpg&hash=59bad6b6ea17122baf3ff523b54c06ebc4f322b4)
Out a zoom level. The transition from downstream.
#5
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg266.imageshack.us%2Fimg266%2F3466%2Fjrpw06cv0.jpg&hash=d52238d60e8b51b5970c865209f8cf82863bcb28)
Back to upstream view.
#6
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg524.imageshack.us%2Fimg524%2F4613%2Fjrpw04uf2.jpg&hash=7e0dc1c0494d99e438c34a7b229c0ded9151c1cd)
From one side.
#6
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg235.imageshack.us%2Fimg235%2F1985%2Fjrpw05lu3.jpg&hash=f3ec9a56137ce8b8d66b33fea9472fd2d983f3e3)
Zooming in. It's hard (so far) to get the trees to plop uniformly as close to the PW pieces as I would like.
#7
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg401.imageshack.us%2Fimg401%2F4733%2Fjrpw07tj3.jpg&hash=8bcef52817f32258ab7a212dbbcec9dd4f5051f0)
Closer in again. Looks pretty good for 2-3 minutes of detailing.
#8
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg520.imageshack.us%2Fimg520%2F5610%2Fjrpw08vf4.jpg&hash=9f762a07aaa461ffafb83bf25cc69a931bfa35f6)
From the other side. This stuff is good!
#9
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg266.imageshack.us%2Fimg266%2F6920%2Fjrpw09cs8.jpg&hash=4884e57295b340e1b63d0622acdf45a0c056c84f)
I'm almost ashamed to show this upstream terraforming...
#10
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg235.imageshack.us%2Fimg235%2F5519%2Fjrpw10gu8.jpg&hash=d5e995c23f6602f358bb7fd990b1630be204cb6f)
Here's a small stream entering a larger one.
#11
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg530.imageshack.us%2Fimg530%2F8827%2Fjrpw11ym9.jpg&hash=7b8ec9c0a19c21c1f1f12bedc238ee79f43c8b52)
The test for me is, "can you look at it close up?" I'd say the answer is yes.
#12
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg526.imageshack.us%2Fimg526%2F9849%2Fjrpw12ho3.jpg&hash=e8ce26edb820b7093c35f7f3e4afc092d1891459)
A last view. This'll be 2:00 a.m. stuff for me for a while until I can master it.
Thanks again, Jeroni!
David
ooooooh wow daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauum david that is wonderful.... The one thing that has now really lost all skeptisum from me is the fact that the transition from PW to Game is almost darn near perfect.... Anther thing i love is that the fact is the props are now underwater so to say instead of sitting on the water...
This is a great day to mark on the calendar.
Until next time...
Joan
un-friggin-believable, im at a loss of words &apls &apls &apls
Quote from: LoneRanger on October 06, 2007, 11:14:52 AM
/me being the one that asked for a regional picture is more than pleased. :)
So, you were the one .... ::) :D :D , you know, I am so short of time that I couldnt repage to look for your name. My apologizes ;)
David, glad to see that it works fine in your system, and that it reaches your expectations :thumbsup: . One quick hint: keep the number of tiles as low as possible. Dont abuse of them $%Grinno$% . The less pieces you use, the less "artifacts" ;)
Quote from: freedo50 on October 06, 2007, 11:43:48 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagecache2.allposters.com%2Fimages%2Fpic%2F54%2F039_20147%7EChuck-Norris-Posters.jpg&hash=151ba07a8918699a7b07038f37044b0826e5cf6f)
^ Jeronij's real identity has finally been uncovered. Only Chuck Norris could have conceived of something this amazing.
Fred
::) $%Grinno$%
Now that the basis of the mod seem to be enough to get a nice effect in the game, it is time to try to improve the water itself. Now it looks like pool water. Very clean and quiet. I have been making some testing with the original model, to give it a more "alive" sensation. The problem comes when I try to give the just amount of "life". If I give it too much, it looks like plastic. If I give it not enouhg, the changes are too subtile to be visible.
Finally I found a neutral solution. The water should look like if it was moving ( the best I can do using fixed models) and I have reduced the visibility / transparency a little bit to give the impression of running water ( which would reduce the visibility).
Before I continue this way, I would like to hear your comments on this enchacement?¿ ;)
On the bottom of the picture you can see the water, simply the water, placed on flat terrain. On the upper side you can see a test stream I made to test this new posibility.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test01.jpg)
And some close-ups on the test stream
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test02.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test03.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test04.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test05.jpg)
The further you zoom, the less visible the effect.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test06.jpg)
So, please, tell me if this is the way to go :thumbsup:
Quote from: cogeo on October 06, 2007, 12:19:38 PM
Could this be done using a simple (or somewhat more sophisticated) opacity map for the alpha, ie a gradient from black to white (or preferably darker gray to lighter gray)? If this works it would make a great difference I think.
Nice to see you around this thread, father of the creature ;D . Since we use plopable items ( like trees ) we are not able to control the orientation when the water is placed, so this makes your idea not valid for this case &mmm . It would be valid for a lots set, but this will not be the case... for this project ;)
Btw, the water effect I used in the previous post's pictures is included in this release: JRJ Rural Culverts And Water Effects (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=125)
Jeronij- The new effect looks great- it really gives that appearance of movement. I am in absolute awe over what you have done here. Finally I can have some water in my dry stream beds!
It's even better than the water that amazed us all.
For my games it would be niceto havethe edges quite straight. I usually don't use streams and rivers but canals. In the Netherlands there are no small rivers and streams. But in return we have an awful lot of canals. But I understand that your water will not be an answer to every question. So I will be perfectly happy with what we can see here.
In fact you make me hoping again that I will be able to make a region that resembles my country.
I had some experiments with the available plopable water and/or trying to make the canals with the in game water, but they were not really succeeding.
Jeronij,
The texture and transparency level are very good, I don't know if it would be wise to improve anything here :thumbsup:
But I would ask you to look at two things:
1. Shadow. Find a steep slope and make the stream at the foot of it. Look how water looks in the shadow.
Your/DT old water: a bit strange (but from bigger distance it is enough good)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg73.imageshack.us%2Fimg73%2F4003%2Fimg0874impmo6.jpg&hash=bbb8a310677d4ea529149abd3e5e117523126eef)
Scorchin's sparkling water: Hmm...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg73.imageshack.us%2Fimg73%2F5605%2Fimg0870impzh3.jpg&hash=8824f5267ee563541a8e445e6f52f6b6edd8f158)
Scorchin's green "dead" water: very bad
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg73.imageshack.us%2Fimg73%2F8043%2Fimg0888impeu2.jpg&hash=c07958613f53961987909843a4d47ec48b9aaa8d)
And what about your water (closeup and general view?)
2. I think the shape of your pieces is not very comfortable. It is a bit too squared and some fragments of it's edge are very characteristic. It gives a repetitive effect.
Again some examples of existing water: Your/DT water is much more comfortable for player and enables to customize the river/lakeside as you want (almost ;)). Scorchin's water is squared, and you can't plop it as you want. The edge looks unnatural and usually you must hide it.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg73.imageshack.us%2Fimg73%2F8602%2Fimg0882imppn1.jpg&hash=26e3ea1a72ed61d9e4c192ef0e5b26a599185192)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg73.imageshack.us%2Fimg73%2F861%2Fimg0893imp1zc4.jpg&hash=309174c361c9d82dfc6efb574ad6ecee9f209c65)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg73.imageshack.us%2Fimg73%2F8470%2Fimg0880impql1.jpg&hash=ec694f52d80eba9ee342cf5950ec08be9dd2a7e4)
Sorry for my comments, but if I see one of the best ideas last time, I want to help to make it even better :D
wow!! this is amazing! sooo realistic :satisfied: &apls
Quote from: jeronij on October 07, 2007, 03:04:18 AM
Since we use plopable items ( like trees ) we are not able to control the orientation when the water is placed
I don't understand, don't these items already have an "orientation"? I mean if you want to make a stream in the North-South direction, shouldn't you plop a set of straight pieces, placed in the NS direction?
Also can we download (or get via email) a test/evaluation version to see what the real thing is? If not then please provide a link to the mod this is about to replace (assuming that exactly the same technology is being used).
i like it.
it's very realistic and looks really nice on your test stream.
Fantastic progress, it looks wonderful, the new texture works very well and I LOVE the banks. &apls
Wow - that is AMAZING! &apls
When will we be able to d/l this work of art??
Jeronij, the technical discussion is way over my head, but I do wish to express my interest in this project and my gratitude to you for undertaking it.
Until next time...
Joan
Hello to all and thanks for the feedback :thumbsup:
Special thanks to ennedi for his constructive suggestions and comments ;)
Before I forget it "$Deal"$
Please, tell me which water texture do you prefere the best. The original, clean one, or the new, blurry one ?¿. It is important for me to know your feedback about it before I release anything ;D
I have been making some "serious" testing with the water.
I have extracted some rules you should keep in mind when using the plopable ( transparent ) water :
1) DONT USE IT IN AN UNREALISTIC WAY $%Grinno$% . Specially when it comes to the slopes. The real water does not stay quiet on the slopes. It drains the terrain and creates rapids, waterfalls, canyons and such naturall accidents, which you also should try to re-create when you plan your rivers, streams and humid zones. The real water stays quiet only in mainly flat terrain.
2) Use anything to cover the water shores. Natural flora props ( trees, bushes, rocks...) or man made props/lots like walls, parks and such. Combine them. In the reallity, again, the water bodies are always surrounded by something. Usually flora, but also human constructions.
3) Use the smaller pieces posible, specially on slopes, to avoid graphic glitches, and the limit the number of pieces to the minimum. If you can draw a stream with ten (10) pieces, dont use 15 or 20 . It will increase the chance for graphic glitches to occur.
4) At the furthermost zoom levels, the LODs are not controllable, and the water looks like squares. If you followed the rules above, this should not be that much visible, but if you make a big open water body, it will probably look ugly from these zoom levels ( 1 and 2).
5) Accept the limitations of the plopable water. In fact, to simulate water in a realistic way in this game, we would need a whole engine for it. It is perfectly understable ( perhaps not so forgiveable ::) ) the reasons why Maxis discarted this option.
And with these rules in mind, I think you can enjoy the plopable water in a reasonable way ;)
Now, back to testing. I decided to make a hard test with the water in the slopes. I decided to break the first rule, and place it in a really steep ( and unrealistic) slope. I used 1x1 tiles for this task, and the result is not that bad.... for such a slope ::) I turned the grid on so you can notice the height change in that mountain.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_01.jpg)
As you can notice, and mentioned above, some "steps" can be seen across the water. The higher the slope, the most noticeable the graphic glitch.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_02.jpg)
In this picture I mixed the original water ( to the bottom) and the new water ( the rest). I hope this may help you to decide which one should be the first to be released ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_03.jpg)
Now the "shadow test". A really weird test imo, ennedi ::) , but since you requested it, I though it was worht it. I hope you like the results ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_04.jpg)
One zoom level more far....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_05.jpg)
And now the mentioned squared LOD at zoom level 2....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_06.jpg)
... and zoom level 1
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_07.jpg)
Fortunately, at regional view leve, the graphic glitches are gone ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_TranspWater_Test_BIG_08.jpg)
So, this is all the true about the transparent water in the actual state of development ( which is 100% of modding, and pending to decide the models to use for the first release)
Please, share your feedback ;)
Best regards to all :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test05.jpg)
Jeroni this is by the best water right there in that pic and i guess you can say that is my vote - pat
Great work on this jeronij! Will there be rapids/waterfall lots?
Jeronij,
Thank you very much for your nice words, I'm glad if my comments were useful :)
My opinion:
1. Your rules are obvious. But in some cases it is impossible to keep to them. I made some experiments with the ploppable water in my MD (Shosaloza):
- Experiment 1: Is it possible to make a lake without the flora/stones along the lakeside?
The answer: yes, you can see how it looks in my MD (Page 3, update 3 - look at the lake, and page 4 update 4, look at the stream on closeups at the Zen Garden).
Why I checked it? The first reason is I use red-brown rock mod. There are no ploppable rocks wchich harmonize with this rock. So I had an idea to use textures from Italia Terrain mod, and I tried to force these textures to appear in particular places. The second reason is when I make a stream/lake on high elevation, above the upper border of the vegetation, it would be very strange if I would plant trees and bushes around my water :) It would be especially strange on snow.
Look at the stream in the update 3 (two views to the North). You will see I have some snow at the riverside, and I used only a few stones. And I must say I'm quite satisfied of the result.
- Experiment 2: is it possible to put a ploppable water on slope (of course very soft slope ;))
The answer: yes. Look again at the stream in my update 3. It is made on the soft slope. I didn't want to make rapids there (I think there is still a lot work to do with rapids) and it would be impossible to make the river bed as on my pictures without the slope tolerant water.
Also, in the update 1 (the Dam) I lowered 2 tiles on the lake by 0,5 m to put the boat from Oppie Canal set. So I made very soft slope around these 2 tiles. It would be impossible without slope tolerant water.
My intention of this explanation was to show some specific (but not such rare) situations. I saw the old ploppable water was enough flexible. The new water should be equal or better ;)
And it is, as can be seen on your pictures :thumbsup:
2. "The shadow experiment" :D The result is excellent! &apls
(Don't be surprised I asked about it, if you have a lake at the foot of the mountain, it is important. Look at my first update - the picture of the lake above the dam)
3. Wchich water?
I agree with Pat, water on this picture is fantastic. But in fact I can see your new (blurry) water only in zoom 1 and 2. I suppose it can be better than the first (clear) version, but I will be sure if I will see the closeup :)
Your work is fantastic, and this cooperation gives me a great satisfaction :thumbsup:
PS: I was just working on my new update, and at one moment my computer crashed to desktop. I looked at the site and saw your post ;D
Jeronij, didn't you use any paranormal abilities? :D
From your most recent post, my vote woul dbe for the outer version (the old one I believe), but I would like to see both options available. The reason for tha is that it seems to be a way to create the perception of depth (the less clear water being deeper). But as for the first release, I think I would prefer the clearer one. Great work on all of this.
Personally I'd prefer the "animated" water to the still water for making realistic-looking streams, but I think they'd both have their uses. ()stsfd()
i think the new one is better, but both are nice :thumbsup:
I like the "animated" version as well. But with all due respect, your slope test doesn't seem fair. My understanding is that the transparent plopable water is intended for use as a shallow and narrow stream, not as a huge lake on an impossibly-steep slope.
I offer this opinion in the spirit that feedback from a simple player with no technical or programming skills might be helpful. If I'm out of line, however, feel free to ignore me! :D
Once again, thank you for undertaking this project. Whatever the end result, it will be a giant step towards heretofore unimagined realism in game play.
Until next time...
Joan
Hi my master Jeronij :)
Wow!! It's really ?? Unbilievable !!
Nice !! It's really very nice project !!
( :o I can't t stop surprising words from my mind!! :o)
Thanks for your invitation to this topic Jeronij. ;)
A lot of people expected this, but is it the method that a lot of people gave up? :-[
Of course I looked for this method, too long times !!
There is not the word of "the impossibility" in the dictionary of Jeronij and god of members BSC !! ;D
I'm looking foward to completion this great project very much !!
Thank you Jeronij and Cogeo !!
- Mas'71
hehe, gravity defying water.. Nice job though jeronij, this looks really, good , think you can make some variations too? like brown water, water which looks like it's covered by ice, and a version with a slight bit less blue colour? ;D
I would have to join Glenni on this one and suggest some other color...
I see problem with it as with many bats and mods little by little a moving the entire SC4 univers into more and more cartoony realm, with more prime colors, oversize and oversimplified shapes oversugary "sweet" props etc, etc. it all turns into barby-world (no offense to our Barby that is). Much of custom flora is of unbearable plastic green, and so is (I know I already got my bucket to collect vegetables past due date that will fly at me now) Colombia River mod.
I would say color scheme should be more in tune with either glenni's sewage works (which btw are WAY to clean (water-wise) for such an establishment, or more silvery grey as a reflection of the sky. Water wouldn't be blue in most cases not as long as you look at it at the angle and there is something else in sight. Reflection of the sky will be quite bright, rivers don't have (normally ) depth to generate rich bluish-greens of the seas, and water has much more of a sediment suspended and lining the bottom. To put long story short it just can not possibly be of such color, or better shouldn't be of such colour.
I must say I agree with Simfox's analysis. But making another colors described by him can be very difficult - how to make the reflection silver, not dirty-grey? I think Sorchin tried to make something similar, and in my opinion it wasn't success.
So I think Glenni's proposition (to make some variants) is very good. However, I can imagine the amount of work with the one basic variant ;) and maybe it would be good to think about it after finishing the basic version?
Quotehow to make the reflection silver, not dirty-grey?
It might require a lot of experimentation with opacity maps and colours. It should be possible to create a silvery sort of texture. But it would be very difficult.
QuoteMuch of custom flora is of unbearable plastic green, and so is (I know I already got my bucket to collect vegetables past due date that will fly at me now) Colombia River mod.
The problem's with the game in that sense. If you've tried to render a plant with 'realistic' textures, you'd most likely find that it'll not come out right in game (most probably, it'd come out an unpleasant brownish-green)... it's more Maxis's fault because of the nature of the rendering in the BAT.
As for the Columbia River mod, Cycledogg's done the best he can do considering the limitations of the game. It turned out quite well, though, wouldn't you agree?
But here's a tomato for your bucket. :P
Once the technique is perfectioned, a tutorial will be posted so you can build your own water version, with the colour, textures and effects that you desire ;)
SF, SC4 is not a graphically realistic game in any way, and it looked like a barby-world right from the vanilla version. It is not my purpose to change this. Forget about reflexions for this model. The game engine wont handle reflections, as far as we actually know. It will be better to use some lots with sparkles, like the ones that badsim created recently, to give this impression of reflexions. If you want to enjoy this game, accept its limitations and play with it and not against it ;)
Ennedi, I did not say that you can`t do it $%Grinno$% , I said you shouldn't do it ::) . Read my last sentence to SF in this post ;D
I will probably release both versions of the fake water for the initial release.
Well i would say games brownish green is much more natural looking that of Colombia River mod the grass there is of absolutely unrealistic hue and saturation and so is much of the flora. I wouldn't want to even talk of various flower mods...
But that is a matter of taste. I myself made one move in that direction with CandyGarden that was suppose to be two things to show a bit different approach to flora models ( not RPC type, but high poly models) and in away tribute to outlandish candy colors of most of the peer stuff. BTW I would say that water then was pretty close to silver. And to hoot it was transparent (or to be more precise translucent) as well although that isn't too obvious but if you look at the rim of the pond can notice it.
To the point of HOW to make something. Well first of all it is of PARAMOUNT importance to clearly understand what is that you are trying to make. When say Silver - you should be able to describe the that silver in a considerable detail and no uncertain terms IN WORDS! many consider it pointless step. But then tend to get lost trying to recreate basic materials that surround us in daily life and that seem so familiar. And it isn't a problem with tool - first of all toll it totally adjustable (that is about complain of bat doing this or that). Te key is to know what and how to adjust. And I don't mean how in terms of knowledge of the software, but in terms of the knowledge of object/material you are trying to make. It is not as simple as many think. So verbalizing it will help you to spot those black spots of unknown or undetermined that you should research more.
So to make something realistic (or NOT realistic doesn't make difference) you should be able to talk it first. If you can't then you wouldn't be able to make it.
that watter is as far as I understand is an overlay texture with particular alpha blending mode. so as such it probably could be totally independent from BAT altogether, right? it is just a 2 d bitmap after all why would you need a 3d modeling software for that??
I think the key in that development was Transparency. Although it is a buzz word in a community (along with reflections) but it is exactly something that makes it unrealistic. So the point is does it have to be transparet?? Even at the cost of losing realism?
SA:
tomato is accepted $%Grinno$%
All that said it is JUST my opinion, based on MY vision of the game world and it could and most probably IS different that vision of many others.
One thing that is independent from these personal preferences is verbalization part.
DESCRIBE with precision and no ambiguity what EXACTLY you want to achieve. This is a KEY
Quote from: SimFox on October 09, 2007, 04:59:32 AM
Well i would say games brownish green is much more natural looking that of Colombia River mod the grass there is of absolutely unrealistic hue and saturation and so is much of the flora. I wouldn't want to even talk of various flower mods...
But that is a matter of taste. I myself made one move in that direction with CandyGarden that was suppose to be two things to show a bit different approach to flora models ( not RPC type, but high poly models) and in away tribute to outlandish candy colors of most of the peer stuff. BTW I would say that water then was pretty close to silver. And to hoot it was transparent (or to be more precise translucent) as well although that isn't too obvious but if you look at the rim of the pond can notice it.
To the point of HOW to make something. Well first of all it is of PARAMOUNT importance to clearly understand what is that you are trying to make. When say Silver - you should be able to describe the that silver in a considerable detail and no uncertain terms IN WORDS! many consider it pointless step. But then tend to get lost trying to recreate basic materials that surround us in daily life and that seem so familiar. And it isn't a problem with tool - first of all toll it totally adjustable (that is about complain of bat doing this or that). Te key is to know what and how to adjust. And I don't mean how in terms of knowledge of the software, but in terms of the knowledge of object/material you are trying to make. It is not as simple as many think. So verbalizing it will help you to spot those black spots of unknown or undetermined that you should research more.
So to make something realistic (or NOT realistic doesn't make difference) you should be able to talk it first. If you can't then you wouldn't be able to make it.
that watter is as far as I understand is an overlay texture with particular alpha blending mode. so as such it probably could be totally independent from BAT altogether, right? it is just a 2 d bitmap after all why would you need a 3d modeling software for that??
I think the key in that development was Transparency. Although it is a buzz word in a community (along with reflections) but it is exactly something that makes it unrealistic. So the point is does it have to be transparet?? Even at the cost of losing realism?
SA:
tomato is accepted $%Grinno$%
All that said it is JUST my opinion, based on MY vision of the game world and it could and most probably IS different that vision of many others.
One thing that is independent from these personal preferences is verbalization part.
DESCRIBE with precision and no ambiguity what EXACTLY you want to achieve. This is a KEY
::) .... the question is very simple.
What do you prefere?
a) No surface water. ( The original game) . Dont keep reading this thread. This is not for you $%Grinno$%
b) Original Plopable water. Totally plain colours. Looks like stains of painting. It gives the sensation of water from far. The closer you go, the more unrealistic. You can also follow your way. This thread is not for you either.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V2_Test01.jpg)
c) Transparent plopable water. Allows a pseudo-3d feeling if you use it properly. In the closest zoom levels looks more credible that the previous plop water. If that is what you like, this is the thread to post you suggestions to improve this.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test05.jpg)
d) Other options. You can make your own proposals and experiments if you want. If you want to learn the technique, simply PM and I will tell you how to make that BAT transparent.
I always appreciate constructive criticism and ideas to help improve my projects, but I cant find this in your comments &mmm . This project is not about discussing how the real water is or looks like, and what does transparency or translucency really means. Sorry ;D . It is about making the fake water look more credible ( perhaps this is a better word that realistic) in game.
Quote from: jeronij on October 09, 2007, 04:02:50 AM
If you want to enjoy this game, accept its limitations and play with it and not against it ;)
I'm very glad you said it. My way of playing SC4 is in most part to check it's characteristic features and limitations, and then
use them, not fight with them ;) I am trying to do all the time (with any success or not - it's another question :D)
SimFox: It is very good you started such discussion. I don't know if we achieve any conclusion now, but maybe some of us will change the way of thinking about SC4 itself and about creating visual effects.
QuoteQuote
Much of custom flora is of unbearable plastic green, and so is (I know I already got my bucket to collect vegetables past due date that will fly at me now) Colombia River mod.
The problem's with the game in that sense. If you've tried to render a plant with 'realistic' textures, you'd most likely find that it'll not come out right in game (most probably, it'd come out an unpleasant brownish-green)... it's more Maxis's fault because of the nature of the rendering in the BAT.
As for the Columbia River mod, Cycledogg's done the best he can do considering the limitations of the game. It turned out quite well, though, wouldn't you agree?
I agree with SA. Simfox, I understand your opinion about unrealistic green color in Columbia and some other terrain mods. But:
1. Of course, the neon green color of some trees is too much for me too :D, but remembering some mountain trips I know how vivid colors can have a meadow or forest - sometimes if you would look at the landscape as at the picture, you could say it is completely unrealistic ;D
2. I am sure it is possible to make many interesting things with Cycledogg's mods, only slightly changing color adjustments of particular texrures. I was playing with some of these mods and after very subtle changes of hue etc. these textures look different - and interesting in my opinion. I want to start a side theme in my MD next week, it will be called "Terrain Mods Gallery" ;). I want to show how different mods (including Maxis one) look on the same terrain without any photoshopping, and this discussion motivate me to show some modifications. And if I can modify the color in Photoshop, why couldn't I change textures in the same (or similar) way?
Edit: I just read your last post, Jeronij.
The water you made is good - both first and second version. It will be useful for many people, and it will look fantastic. I want it! :D
And what to do in future and what is better for whom - it's another problem ;)
I really like the look of the water with waves, jeroni.
And as for the terrain hue discussion, the green of Columbia River is pretty close to the temperate rain forests of the North American Pacific Northwest. I'm not from there like Tarkus, but I've visited a few times and it looks pretty close to me.
Now the lack of a good sub-tropical and tropical terrain mod gets me thinking but I don't even come close to understand what c.p. does.
My only suggestion is that some better ground cover would look great. The dark green in c. from Jeroni's reply looks like dark green paint on the river bank..
Just my two cents.
Have a good day everyone!
Cheers,
Kevin
Many times I think we all forget we are playing a 4 year old game with a lot of limitations. We CANNOT and SHOULD not try to replicate real life fully as the game will not allow it. The best work is done within the limitations of the game working with them and not against them. We all also need to remember that we do not all see colours exactly the same. My view of a colour can be quite different to someone else's. The dark green in Jeroni's image c) looks fine to me and not at all like green paint but to Kevin it does. Why is right and who wrong? Neither as both see things differently.
I like this water even though water isn't blue but you cannot have real life stream colours as they would look very bad in SC4. We KNOW water isn't that colour but we can believe it is for the purpose of SC4.
"We must go forwards, not backwards. Upwards, not forwards. And always twirling, twirling towards freedom." - Bill Clinton, The Simpons
This is an awesome step upwards within the limitations of our amazing game of customization.
With that said, we all have differing opinions on how things should be or shouldnt be. Everyone wants their city to be different, unique, beautiful. We all know that there are many, many shortcomings and areas that needed improvement from the Vanilla game. Thats what was so good about this game, if there weren't differing opinions, shortfalls or so called "bugs" in the game, we wouldnt have a community. Noone would have been creating custom content, noone would be making mods to fix the so called "bugs". If noone was making any of these cool new things in the game, this game would have died a year or so after it was released. But it hasnt died and it still has alot of life in it. We have to realize though that there are many limitations of a game that is 4 years old, computers today are stronger, faster and better, meaning they can handle more complex simulators, but our game wasnt designed yesturday, it was designed for computers 4 years ago, even for then it was desgined for the computer of tomorrow. Physically our computers, even today cannot handle the complex simulators the would be required for everything that we want introduced into our game. It will be 10 years before we get a computer with the complexity of full 3D-Rendering and the Simulator capabilities of SC4, you cannot have both right now.
Thank you everyone who creates something for our game... I appreciate everything that is created, especially those like Jeronij and a few others who are pushing the limits of our game to make the boundaries a little more broad and give us a little more wiggle room to deal with what we have.
It seems like I say this about every six months in response to something I see.
...the name of the game, after all, is Sim City...
I can't take credit for that- I read it somewhere over at ST a long time ago, but it strikes me that few truer words were ever spoken. Maxis developed a city simulator that was never intended, as best I can tell, to provide much of anything beyond the rudimentary ability to model the natural world. Oh sure, you could create mountains, you could dig rivers and lakes (after a fashion), and you could plant swathes of trees. But these things never struck me as anything other than being intended as "space fillers" between those areas that were the object of the game- the cities.
That's where we stood in 2003. The release of Rush Hour didn't change anything in that regard.
Fast-forward almost 5 years. During that time, SC4 gods and geniuses like Pegasus, jeronij, Cycledogg and Sorchin, and more recently Chrisadams3997, have given us an increasing array of tools, techniques and things that provided for a vast expansion in our ability to create natural environments. Assuredly, as SimFox here and others elsewhere have noted, this increased ability continues to have significant limitations. Colors are a particular issue, and so is fine detail. At some point, though, like our friend Ennedi says- one has to accept those limitations and play with them, and not fight with them.
A huge unspoken point here in dealing with the natural environment is that presented by the fundamental unit of the game's graphic presentation- the pixel. Assuming most modern screen resolutions provide for around a hundred pixels per inch/2.5 cm, and assuming that most folks spend most of their time in the game at the middle zoom level, and taking into account that a game gridsquare measures 50 feet/16 meters on a side, a single pixel represents an object about two square feet/60 cm² in size. It goes without saying that this is why folks find blades of grass and individual flowers so hard to mimic effectively in SC4. Just about everyone would agree that an area covered in rocks of that size would not properly be described as an area of gravel. When one complains about blockiness and simplification at fine levels of detail, the complaint addresses something that we cannot do anything about no matter how hard we would try. It's like the speed of light or absolute zero. It's a limitation that isn't going to change, no matter what we might do.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Electronic Arts headed off in the direction of Sim City: Societies based at least in part on reasoning along these lines. Most people who enjoy computer games don't play them on a $15,000 workstation. The sorts of expectations that many in the community had for SC5, if even achievable, would have likely put the game outside of the limits of today's mass-market computers. That's because, in addition to all those graphics, there's a complicated simulation running all the time at the game's core. And then there's those darned absolute limits, as described above. The more I think about this, the more it seems to me that SC5 was destined to be a huge letdown, no matter what direction it took. It would've truly been a gift to the Sim City fanbase for EA to have simply released an expansion pack, even in 2007, that would have addressed and corrected what we considered to be a number of the game's major deficiencies. But EA, like other businesses, isn't in the habit of giving gifts. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we would be unreasonable if that's what we expected a company that's in business to make a profit for its shareholders to do.
I've wandered very far afield here from the intention of jeronij's posts in this thread. I couldn't read the recent comments, however, and not take a minute to say these things. When we tamper with the game in such an extraordinary manner as to create things like ploppable water, we have to set our own definition of what we're willing to consider realistic. There's no way around that- something I do not say in sadness or resignation, but in recognition of the fact that what we do have with what we have made this game become is a wonderful thing, and focusing on exactly how wonderful or lamenting that wonderful does not equal perfect is just simply a waste of time.
My two cents, jeronij, is that what you have here, while not perfect, is entirely worthy of release. I'd recommend you do that, and then let the huge development lab that is the user community go to work. As hundreds of people incorporate ploppable water into their gameplay, ways to improve it that might not come to mind today will become apparent. Further delay of even a day serves no real purpose. Thanks for your hard work on this.
David
You really are a lawyer to the core aren't you. :P
That is looking wonderful! :thumbsup: Looking forward to the release of it...
QuoteMy two cents, jeronij, is that what you have here, while not perfect, is entirely worthy of release. I'd recommend you do that, and then let the huge development lab that is the user community go to work. As hundreds of people incorporate ploppable water into their gameplay, ways to improve it that might not come to mind today will become apparent. Further delay of even a day serves no real purpose. Thanks for your hard work on this.
David first and foremost that last paragraph is what the community is about.... I for one cant wait to get ahold of the new PW and rework some stuff or make new.... Either way Jeroni I know you will make the best selection for us and give us nothing but great stuff to work with.... Thank you - pat
Quote from: BarbyW on October 09, 2007, 08:00:10 AM
but you cannot have real life stream colours as they would look very bad in SC4.
This is true, and this is one of crucial points. It's true - not only for water, and not only for colors.
A few words about realism (without conclusion ;))
1. If I will go to any place, choose an object and start to make photos - at various time, weather conditions etc. - I will have a collection of different pictures. Wchich is realistic?
2. A photo image is something different than we see. But most of us will say the unedited picture is realistic, and never thought what exactly they have seen through their eyes - did they see such clear colors, such sharp forms?
3. If I'm staying at the rock wall and can touch it, I see it's colors, texture and form. When I will go away - let's say 500 m - I will not see "the same but less sharp and smaller". I will see
something different - new colors, new forms. None of these views is more realistic than another one. They are simply different.
4. NASA publishes amazing images of galaxies. Are they realistic? Their colors are achieved because of very long time of exposition, you couldn't see them through your eyes.
I had to wear glasses first time when I was 4,5 years old. When I haven't glasses, I see unsharp forms and a radiance around every light source. Wchich view is realistic? With glasses or without them?
So, where is the standard? To be honest I think it exist, but it is not visual. It is in mind.
Personally, when I build something in SC4, I don't want to imitate the real world.
I want to move a viewer's imagination. This "real" picture is in his/her mind. Or not :D - if not, I must try again
And I think this water moves an imagination of many people - read comments please :D
I don't know if it is important and useful in this topic. Just my opinion.
Adam i think you summed it up better in this one sentence right here.... "So, where is the standard? To be honest I think it exist, but it is not visual. It is in mind." What more can be said other then " We see what We want to see"
First I just want to say I love the new ploppable water - let's see it released and then the inevitable colour variations can follow.
Second, I'll leave you to contemplate these images and the wisdom of debating the colour of water ...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atitlan.org.uk%2FOtherpics%2FWaterColours.jpg&hash=dd14ebe4986c1ad8fda1d6b1de4294e852e055cf)
I thought I'd add my customary $3.80 for what it's worth.
Being a custom content creator and running an MD myself, the issues of scale and realism are two things I am constantly thinking about. We all know there are various inadequacies in the game on this front, things that are out of scale (some quite dramatically). So, on one hand, it's a game. But the name also implies that it is a simulator. As I see it, it is a game that is attempting to recreate something from the real physical world. The question is, how accurate do you want to be, and perhaps more importantly, how accurate can you be within the game's limitations? I can say with almost complete certainty that no two people are going to see eye-to-eye on how to create this balance between "game" and the "simulator". As Pat put it, "We see what we want to see". A very accurate way of putting it. Some sort of compromise has to be struck.
Personally, I think that what Jeroni has done here with his new ploppable water is a remarkably accurate representation of real-world phenomena within the limits of the game, and I commend him. In all honesty, I never used ploppable water before because the "flatness" of it bothered me, but once this gets released, I'll be plopping water like a madman. Thanks, Jeroni, for this excellent new creation. :thumbsup:
-Alex (Tarkus)
zero7, so... in spain the water is blue and in finland is green ..... ::) :D :D :D
Many trues have been said here, some of them really proof ::) , and since I agree with most of them, I will keep making some more variated textures for the first release ;) . Thanks to all for sharing your feedback :thumbsup:
Quote from: jeronij on October 09, 2007, 12:20:56 PM
zero7, so... in spain the water is blue and in finland is green ..... ::) :D :D :D
I wasn't expecting such a dramatic contrast when I went to look :) :D
And if I'd picked London, the Thames would have been a browny grey and if I'd picked somewhere else the colour would have been different again. That's the point really. At any given angle water colour is a combination of what is suspended in it and (mostly) what is reflected in it - the range of possible colours is so large that for daytime as long as you are somewhere on the blue-green spectrum you are likely to have a colour that represents water somewhere in the world.
(And that's coming from someone who sits firmly in the 'realist' camp of content creators)
WOW! you are master, this looks beyond excellent &apls &apls
It seems that my poor proofreading caused an uproar. I apologize. I think the new ploppable water is great and would love to see it released, I was actually referring to the
grass on the river bank.
Quote from: BigSlark on October 09, 2007, 06:17:44 AM
My only suggestion is that some better ground cover would look great. The dark green grass in c. from Jeroni's reply looks like dark green paint on the river bank..
I was following the logic that c.p.'s newer trees look really real as do his terrain mod textures and why couldn't 4 ft. (1m) grass besides a river have a similar look?
And I have to agree with David, he has hit the mark again, as usual.
So, once I again, I apologize and hope to see this on the LEX soon.
A humbled and embarrassed cheers,
Kevin
Kevin, I don't think you are personally responsible for causing any uproar here in this topic. Many calm and wise voices have spoken already about what we might and might not expect from either the game and or modifications.
-edited. unnecessary comments - jeronij
These are looking superb Jeroni...another barrier torn down &apls
Oh and btw everyone, water is colourless :P :thumbsup:
Exactly, it's only the particles mixed with the water that give it its colour. The reason why water appears, say, blue, is because it's deep. :P
Oh, and it reflects light in the blue part of the visible light spectrum, too.
Quote from: Serkanner on October 09, 2007, 03:23:47 PM
Kevin, I don't think you are personally responsible for causing any uproar here in this topic. Many calm and wise voices have spoken already about what we might and might not expect from either the game and or modifications.
I agree also with you Serkanner that Kevin had no cause in the Uproar..... The second part of your statement is too funnie, i cant stop laughing about it....
Lee, good point and also to add that it sure aint oderless either lol....
Personally, I think these comments sum it up pretty well:
"We see what we want to see." - Pat
"I want to move a viewer's imagination." Ennedi
SC4 is a simulation, so the "reality" of it exists only in our own individual perception of reality.
This new version of plopable water is now first in a VERY long line of contributions from the gifted and talented. As a devoted player, I just do the best I can with what I have and cover up the little glitches with trees!
Until next time...
Joan
I'll defer to the experts on the criticisms, but from my layman's eye, I like it! It gives another dimension to the ploppable water and I can't wait to play with it! Great job!
Hello again and thanks to all for your support in this project :thumbsup:
I want to include three different water colours in the first release, and I have been working with a greenish ( perhaps too green ::) ) and a dirty ( perhaps not too dirty ::) :D ) versions for this transparent water.
I have decided to test both waters before I complete all the models. This is the result.
I wanted to simulate an small agricultural area, with one of these illegal wastelands, and even thinking that I should have worked the details a bit more, I also think that the pictures are worth posting them.
First four aerial views on the whole area:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test01.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test02.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test03.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test04.jpg)
I also wanted to see how these new different waters would fit in the game. This is the first test. Really plain. Blue water to green water. I post some views from different zoom levels
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test05.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test06.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test07.jpg)
With a little more work it would look even better ::)
Now lets have a look to the new waters .... green and brown....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test08.jpg)
Here is where the relative clean green water mixes with the dirty brown water. For a first try is not that bad ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test09.jpg)
In this second attemp, the brown water mixes with the green .... a bit more elaborated perhaps....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test10.jpg)
Why are we, humans, able to do such things ? &mmm
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test11.jpg)
The wasteland soils the water for a strecht..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test12.jpg)
Fortunately the clear water from the other stream helps the situation ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test13.jpg)
Now a new attemp to a rapids area and a mix with real water. Unfortunately, this last point is the main drawback actually with this type of water ()sad()
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test14.jpg)
The rapids/small waterfalls do not look that bad, but the transition to the real water is poor....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test15.jpg)
What do you think about the new waters ;) ?¿
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V5_Test16.jpg)
I hope you like the whole set. I have also experinced with the MAX material that I used, so you may notice some differences between the water textures.... tell me if you particularly like any of them ;D
I like all of them, Jeroni! &apls
And I can imagine how people will be using the brown water in industrial areas... ::)
First of all: I can't wait for this to be released. This is truly amazing stuff! &apls
Second: textures and transparancy... I really don't know which is the best. The blue water is probably more alround then the others, I think that for usability the transparancy of the green and "dirty" textured water is probably a little low. I would like a "plainer" surface for those two aswell.
QuoteWhat do you think about the new waters.
I was allready sold after seeing the first pictures you posted but it even gets better &apls
The colors look fine to me [well ok maybe a little to green :D] but it prolly depends on wich
surface texture you play/build.
Again, excelent stuff. :thumbsup:
I like them exactly as they are.
I can see myself using them all over "Teton".
Great work Jeronij, and Thanks!
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm WOW Jeroni you have truly pushed this bar higher and higher...
I really am left speechless here.... WOW WOW WOW
The Brown Color water is stunning looking great and how well it mixes with the green water dang its
just soo good... I love the pollution shot, its soooooooooo realistic..................
&apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
And not all brown water is polluted ;), around where I live most creeks and rivers are muddy and so they are all brown, something that always annoyed me concerning the blue ploppable waters before. Thanks Jeronij for all your work on this, it's really turned out great :thumbsup:.
Chris
Jeronij, I understand you can be tired of some of my ideas :D, but would you like to show this water (especially the brown one) on the green background? It can be of course without these riverside decorations, I know they need much work :)
BTW, I love this wasteland!!! :D
PS. DuskTrooper showed something interesting on the first (edit: sorry, second) page. Isn't any chance do make something like it?
This work is very incrdible. I for one like waht you have come up with and can't wait for it's release. These three new colours are perfect for now. Others will modify for thier own likings.
&apls &apls &apls
Robin :thumbsup:
That is looking very beautiful, jeronij! Wonderful work! :thumbsup:
The muddy water is nice. Actually, the whole thing is amazing.
As far as real water transition goes, couldn't a water-based lot with an slope-sensitive overhang help with the water transition? I know slope sensitive is possible, not sure about when its overhanging, tho.
The blue and green versions are spot on IMO, but the brown is too brown really..if it were less saturated it'd probably work better, but I am but one voice....
Quote from: callagrafx on October 10, 2007, 11:13:22 AM
The blue and green versions are spot on IMO, but the brown is too brown really..if it were less saturated it'd probably work better, but I am but one voice....
Make that two :D
I think the brown is a little too brown as well, but to my eye, it looked like little mud patches when mixed with the green water, which could be very useful. I think the set is perfect as-is. :thumbsup:
I have a rather large lake 100 yards from my front door (a watershed built by the state), and during this discussion, I have looked at it often and with different eyes. At the moment, the water is a grayish brown on the far bank and kind of a silvery color in the middle with a glittery surface. Most notably, the colors change with the time of day and the weather, so no one color or combination of colors could replicate the water under all conditions.
Nevertheless, as a simple player with barely medium skills, I think all the colors you've created have a place. I believe the talented members here will take this innovation and do wonderful things with it, so any necessary improvements will come naturally with time and patience.
Until next time...
Joan
For me, the blue looks fine; the green is also OK, but for my taste could use a little bit less saturation and the brown needs work*, though where you've mixed it with the green makes a good case for ploppable earth!
* Not sure quite what it needs, but it doesn't have the same sense of being water as the other two have.
Awesome work jeronij. Very realistic water effect &apls &apls
I like this wasteland looks great in the game, but very awful in real life :thumbsdown:
btw, Great job! &apls
Again a beautiful update and again one step closer to the perfect game.
Okay here is my opinion. All three are great. The blue is just about perfect. You can see thru it but not too much. I love the brown though it might be a tiny bit less saturated. A tiny bit more transparent. The green seems to be a bit too green. If it to were a bit more transparent and less saturated, I think they would be perfect. Even with the previous comments, I would not hesitate to use them as is in my cities right now. This is truely monumental work.
---Gaston
Quote from: Gaston on October 10, 2007, 03:27:39 PM
Okay here is my opinion. All three are great. The blue is just about perfect. You can see thru it but not too much. I love the brown though it might be a tiny bit less saturated. A tiny bit more transparent. The green seems to be a bit too green. If it to were a bit more transparent and less saturated, I think they would be perfect. Even with the previous comments, I would not hesitate to use them as is in my cities right now. This is truely monumental work.
---Gaston
I agree with our good friend here. A bit more tweaking would make it perfect, but you're already pretty close! Great work!
The only change I would make would be to make the green and brown water slightly more transparent, if at all possible (the brown does look a little bit like mud). Apart from that, fantastic work!
Quote* Not sure quite what it needs, but it doesn't have the same sense of being water as the other two have.
Well, then, that brown would be quite suitable for recreating the river that runs through Ankh-Morpork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork). After all, that river is so polluted with silt you can literally walk on it. People who are familiar with the Discworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld) series know what I'm talking about.
WOW! That is simply amazing! The green and blue water looks really good, but IMO the brown water should be sort of cloudy underwater because the brown is only on the surface and you can see blue or green water under it. Other than that though it looks really good! &apls
Generally speaking I agree with most opinions about these three colors: the blue one is OK, the green could be a bit less saturated (but only a bit), and the brown one... I don't know ;D, maybe it could be a bit more transparent.
The surface is perfect in all three cases.
It would be good to have much more transparent version (like DT's picture).
A note for those who think about shining and silvery color:
The shining appears on water when you are looking on it having a sun at the front of you. And what is the sun position in SC4? on the left side, and slightly behind you. Always, no matter what is your viewing direction. In addition, if we would have shining water, it would look very strange in the shadow ;). Sparkles are another case, they appear on the little waves, when a small part of water surface is positioned at the proper angle to the sun and your eye.
All three kinds of water look very good on closeups, and it is the most important. As for bigger distances - compare their look rather with Google Earth views than with landscape photographs. Why? Looking at the landscape we usually look at the little angle (like Joan looking at the lake in the front of her door), and in SC4 we are looking at the big angle (more similar to the satelite view). Every color used by Jeronij (including the brown one) can be seen in Google Earth.
This is one of the most exciting projects Ive seen in a long time! Thanks for all the work youre doing on it jeronij! :thumbsup:
I do have one quick question...
Are there any plans for a deeper looking water plop to match these new streams? So the new streams can flow into a large lake. Or perhaps there is some type of plop that we can put under this new transparent water that would make it look deeper, similar to putting flora under it in the streams.
In any case, thanks again for creating such a wonderful addition!
Quote from: Sim_Idiot on October 11, 2007, 10:19:46 AM
I do have one quick question...
Are there any plans for a deeper looking water plop to match these new streams? So the new streams can flow into a large lake. Or perhaps there is some type of plop that we can put under this new transparent water that would make it look deeper, similar to putting flora under it in the streams.
I'm just guessing but I'll bet you could plop some other plopable water like edmonton ploppable "under" this and it would look darker but still transparent. So you could plop edmonton then rocks , plants, boulders etc, and then this to get a multiple dimentional look. Like I said, that is just a guess.
---Gaston
Quote from: Gaston on October 11, 2007, 01:39:02 PM
I'm just guessing but I'll bet you could plop some other plopable water like edmonton ploppable "under" this and it would look darker but still transparent. So you could plop edmonton then rocks , plants, boulders etc, and then this to get a multiple dimentional look. Like I said, that is just a guess.
---Gaston
Of course I will do it immediately after releasing and we will see... :)
Haven't seen something so real since PEG's stream pack - well done guys.
First look at this thread since the Initial Posts... And OMG OMG OMG WOOOT.
Jeronij, My Hat Goes Off To You Sir !!!!! :thumbsup: &apls :thumbsup:
My love for the PW is even stronger with the this TPW. It is definately a Big step forward.
I do like the colors. The Blue especially. The green and brown might need some tweaking like said by others, but still great.
I like the effects in the water you placed, along with the the Clean versiojn as well. They will pour into my cities at a flooding rate.
I hope I can scour up some bank items, as my selection is still minimal.
I forsee more coming soon.. I hope.
Again, Thank you for this wonderful addition to the game.
:)
Hello again and thanks for your feedback :thumbsup:
Quote
Quote from: Sim_Idiot on October 11, 2007, 10:19:46 AM
I do have one quick question...
Are there any plans for a deeper looking water plop to match these new streams? So the new streams can flow into a large lake. Or perhaps there is some type of plop that we can put under this new transparent water that would make it look deeper, similar to putting flora under it in the streams.
I'm just guessing but I'll bet you could plop some other plopable water like edmonton ploppable "under" this and it would look darker but still transparent. So you could plop edmonton then rocks , plants, boulders etc, and then this to get a multiple dimentional look. Like I said, that is just a guess.
---Gaston
The idea is good, but hard to put it in practice. Unless you use some of the smallest new TPW pieces, the other existing pieces wont allow you to place the TPW on it properly... but I am sure that the user will surprise us with their testing :thumbsup:
I have been working with the brown water. I have reduced the mud feeling, andI think I will leave it this way. It is still a bit transparent, but if I make it more opaque, it looks like traditional PW ::) . I will fin¡sh the two reamining pieces for the dirty water, pack it all, and release it asap. I spent many hours trying to get a less saturated green water without success. I am sure someone will make some more variated green waters in the future ;)
This is the dirty water actually:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/Trans_Water_V6_01.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/Trans_Water_V6_02.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/Trans_Water_V6_03.jpg)
I know you are impatient to play with this water, so I wont delay the project any longer and release it asap ;D
That dirty water is looking "very nice"! :thumbsup:
Much better Jeronij, I think you've got the exact transparency it should be there. Well done! Can't wait to play now.
Fred
The brown one is really better, blue and green are OK too :thumbsup:
&apls &apls &apls
these ones are excellent :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Wow, nice work on the dirty water.
That is looking real good.
I cross a river on the way to work everyday, that looks a lot like your dirty water!
Thanks again for the nice compliments :thumbsup: I am glad you like the final colours/shapes . I have just release the PTW to the LEX right now ;)
Transparent Plopable Water (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1227)
Feel free to post your suggestions and pictures here ;) . I do really hope that you enjoy this one ¡¡¡
Jeronij,
Where did you get that lovely ploppable garbage from? I was looking for something that looked like trash dumped by a lot of people over time for some of my main thru-ways.
Fantastic work on the ploppable water my rural areas will look great as well as some of my sparse industrial zones.
This is great, thank you so much for all your hard work. My Daughter and I have so many of your creations in our games. Thanks again! ;D
OMG OMG OMG OMG jeroni do i read and see right that TPW is up OMG OMG OMG
im soo excited.... gone to play now hehehehehee........................ See you all in a few days ;)
Great idea. It looks so realistic. I'm looking forward to using this set.. :)
SimNation: JRJ Ploppable Garbage (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=64)
Thanks, Jeroni. I may actually try ploppable water now.
Quote from: SimNation on October 12, 2007, 08:49:30 AM
Jeronij,
Where did you get that lovely ploppable garbage from? I was looking for something that looked like trash dumped by a lot of people over time for some of my main thru-ways.
Fantastic work on the ploppable water my rural areas will look great as well as some of my sparse industrial zones.
The plopable garbagge can be found here: http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=64
I hope you enjoy it ;) It seems Barby won me for a minute :D :D
Again thanks to all for the feedback :thumbsup: . I hope you enjoy this set ;D
Congratulations on this fantastic creation, Jeroni! It's a great day for SC4 and for SC4D.
EDIT: Heh! Ploppable cowflop [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16210), garbage...
Sheesh, what's next?
David
Thanks jeronij, this is awesome! I will start testing it right away. ;D
Quote from: dedgren on October 12, 2007, 09:33:07 AM
EDIT: Heh! Ploppable cowflop [linkie] (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16210), garbage...
Sheesh, what's next?
David
But to see any details it should be at least 1x1 and it means a diameter about 16 meters :D
Cowflops Props Mega Pack ?...
Thanks BarbyW didnt know how I had missed those since I rake through the Download section on a daily basis. The Cow Pats mentioned will actually be great for the Rural Renewal Project that I cant wait to try.
Ennedi...lol!
MOO!
David
Quote from: Ennedi on October 12, 2007, 10:07:52 AM
But to see any details it should be at least 1x1 and it means a diameter about 16 meters :D
Cowflops Props Mega Pack ?...
I guess I should start working on them right now. $%Grinno$% But yes, they will complement the Rural Renewal Project just fine - I just need some time to upload the cow pat at the LEX as well. ;)
That said, let me say the ploppable transparent water looks awesome - so much better than the previous version! My mayor mode tree menu will burst soon as well...
Now that's really nice jeronij, i especially like the brown water! :thumbsup:
Ohn and just for the heck of it for all us chaos loving people, wanna try this out ? :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi80.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj179%2FGlenni91%2FBAT%2520pics%2Fblah%2Ftoxicsludge.jpg&hash=dc0974845b17c66179772a9658facd3337e0ccd0)
Hehe, toxic sludge. :D
Hi Jeronij and everyone :)
&apls &apls Congratulation to completion this fantastic one Jeroni san !! &apls &apls
and Thank you very much sharing the Result of your great discovery !!
It's realy wonderful !!
and Lonely scenery of my scenery changed very wonderfully. ;)
but I have a little problem with my incompetent PC. :P
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg250.imageshack.us%2Fimg250%2F8553%2Fjrjtransparentplopablewdn4.jpg&hash=21c745726b4e22b8a84b4e2593d748a76f142c95)
There are little problem when it putting on the place where the color of ground is too bright.
I will use it as only this respect noting it. ;)
Thanks again Jeroni san !! :thumbsup:
and I'm looking foward to you open to public about this super technic too ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg181.imageshack.us%2Fimg181%2F2793%2Fhomersimpsonjn3.png&hash=1a1a0d602eeca6a615977d21b2c65ca26e8b4523)
Mmmmmmmmmm... Toxic sludge!
David
I thought id share a picture of my first experiment with transparent plopable water.
As suggested by Gaston, I used transparent water for the bank of a large river, and then used a combination of old plopable water with transparent water over it for a deeper section.
This is what I came up with :
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg405.imageshack.us%2Fimg405%2F6974%2Fnewwaterom7.jpg&hash=0b2419910a0056ecf266a51e0ec96aa1b98cd9c2)
I may experiment a bit more and see if there is a better way to accomplish the transition from shallow to deep.
EDIT
A lighter color plopable water underneath seems to transition a bit better.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F8179%2Fnewwater2dk3.jpg&hash=ac4d1a495ce31544857e9808834be696e32b8a8a)
Great job, jeronij! I'll have to get over to the LEX and start downloading!
Sim_Idiot: That looks pretty good, in my opinion! Using the two waters does give it the illusion of "depth." Great thinking!
Quote from: MAS71 on October 12, 2007, 11:08:25 AM
Hi Jeronij and everyone :)
&apls &apls Congratulation to completion this fantastic one Jeroni san !! &apls &apls
and Thank you very much sharing the Result of your great discovery !!
It's realy wonderful !!
and Lonely scenery of my scenery changed very wonderfully. ;)
but I have a little problem with my incompetent PC. :P
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg250.imageshack.us%2Fimg250%2F8553%2Fjrjtransparentplopablewdn4.jpg&hash=21c745726b4e22b8a84b4e2593d748a76f142c95)
There are little problem when it putting on the place where the color of ground is too bright.
I will use it as only this respect noting it. ;)
Thanks again Jeroni san !! :thumbsup:
and I'm looking foward to you open to public about this super technic too ;D
MAS71 san,
Your PC is more competent than you suppose :) Also, even bright background doesn't cause any problem.
But you must carefully flatten the terrain before plopping water pieces. Of course they are slope tolerant, but even if the slope is very little, there is a risk to appear graphic glitches. In many cases they can be hidden by rocks, flora etc., but sometimes you want to have a clear surface - and in this case your terrain must be 100% flattened. I suggest to use the God Mode flattening tool to do it.
These are my first experiments:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg131.imageshack.us%2Fimg131%2F7502%2Fimg1260impjd0.jpg&hash=58587cafe1ca677e618de2845549dccdd9267eb2)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg131.imageshack.us%2Fimg131%2F8533%2Fimg1261impyv5.jpg&hash=a827e42c0b891a7a6e9462fa172e41e905c9f996)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg131.imageshack.us%2Fimg131%2F795%2Fimg1262impdz8.jpg&hash=b91f8e836b0a20fab5b069638990a2045678c59d)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg131.imageshack.us%2Fimg131%2F6020%2Fimg1263impfn7.jpg&hash=ecba9160f2daebe4f4f1e8aa9cd577ba28c3a466)
I tested it on another backgrounds too, but preparing good examples will need much time.
Jeronij, your water gives unbelievable possibilities. Thank you!
excellent!!
this is what i came 5 mins ago:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg50.imageshack.us%2Fimg50%2F7968%2Fimg0001ih8.jpg&hash=98896d2a1d4db7fde24677e8d7b4afa5162b75f6)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg228.imageshack.us%2Fimg228%2F8025%2Fimg0000rv7.jpg&hash=1ce82fd597da66d98cd1414300a66745a495a28c)
@
Ennedi san
Thanks so much for your polite advice with good examples for me
Ennedi san !! :)
Quote from: Ennedibut sometimes you want to have a clear surface - and in this case your terrain must be 100% flattened.
Oh, I see :thumbsup:
It was certainly plopped on the slope a gradual at my report. :-[
and this note is writen at the first post on top of this thread by
Jeronij san. :-[
It was myself not my PC to be the incompetence. (lol) :newbie:
Thanks again
Ennedi san ;)
Shallow to Deep, the Best Solution
I think Ive finally perfected it.
1.) Use regular Edmonton plopable water on the areas that you want to appear deeper.
2.) Lay down transparent water over the Edmonton water and any shallow areas.
3.) Add Jeronij's grass (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=921) on the edge of the Edmonton water. Use a lot on the edges, and then slightly less the further you go into the shallow areas.
4.) Use other lighter style underwater flora near the edges of the shallow area.
The result should look something like this :
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg229.imageshack.us%2Fimg229%2F4349%2Ffinalwaternb1.jpg&hash=ff1af716719e03201e9fa09e8147f169ab4d01ae)
The grass is an excellent transition item between the darker color of the deeper water, and the lighter color of the shallow areas. It creates a very good looking realistic effect in my opinion.
Thanks again Jeronij for this most excellent creation! ;D
Nice work, that is a great transition. Thanks for sharing it.
Fantastic addition Jeroni! Well done.
If the above pics haven't confirmed it (Sim_Idiot's in particular), this is a really great addition. Thanks Sim_Idiot for the quick tutorial too.
@Sim_Idiot: I like your method very much, and your execution is excellent! :thumbsup:
@figui: Your method (putting separate pieces of ploppable water under TPW) is also very good and gives interesting effect!
Quote from: MAS71 on October 12, 2007, 05:15:35 PM
@Ennedi san
It was certainly plopped on the slope a gradual at my report. :-[
and this note is writen at the first post on top of this thread by Jeronij san. :-[
It was myself not my PC to be the incompetence. (lol) :newbie:
Thanks again Ennedi san ;)
Don't worry, MAS71 san! Now we are all in the stage of an experimental works, and our mistakes are not mistakes in fact, we are learning using trials and errors method :) Showing these trials and errors we make something good for others, because they will not waste their time to do it themselves ;)
And this is what I've done using Sim_Idiot's idea:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg265.imageshack.us%2Fimg265%2F5930%2F0919stymy2.jpg&hash=53a005033f20bdab08f3df2b7e64f01f5ec3c824)
Thank you for that great addition Jeronij! :thumbsup:
I thought I'd have a go using the dirty water....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F6623%2Fploppabletransparentbrosy2.jpg&hash=15a7918f1e4b8e1f06d29a0f6eb1f0808de5f95a)
I also used Sim_idiot's idea but incorporated some ploppable water rapids (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16289) by dedgren, then used another of Jeronij's excellent creations, the dirty water effect from Rural Culverts And Water Effects (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=125), for the transition to game water.
Here's a close-up of the transition.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg153.imageshack.us%2Fimg153%2F4130%2Fbrownwatertransitiongo0.jpg&hash=c01020e9899c07a6c0d9d15c40fcdc47837376c9)
Many, many thanks to Jeronij for all the effort put in. Well worth the wait!
The pics that are showing up here are so far ahead of anything we've ever seen before.
Imagine what using this new PW will be like after we've had some time to get really good at it.
Hats off to jeroni! Hats off to all of you as we take this game to the next level.
David
I think the fact Jeronij invited us to show ingame pictures of his new set in the same thread in wchich his idea was presented and developed, was something very good and it added a new quality to our common work.
I don't know if it is a good idea and if it can become popular, but I think the same can be done every time if the creator finishes and releases a new BAT/LOT/ploppable set. It is not only a great promotion of this object, but it also show wchich are new possibilities and what is in fact added to the game.
AMEN David and Adam you 2 summed it up verry well ;)
so as i said i was off to play and i did for awhile yesterday myself and to show off what i did a little bit... I indeed had already done what Sim_idiot did but before i even knew what he experimented with i did it in more of a lake effect, more or less just playing around with my new toy lol...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg91.imageshack.us%2Fimg91%2F3932%2Flakeeffect2pv7.jpg&hash=035bef1594267f9723019063f7e1822785dbe93b)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F8325%2Flakeeffect1sf9.jpg&hash=868933aca903517ab96c23fc3e92eaaac8c687c1)
yupp i know i few blank spots in that water.... But i reallly love that water wow........
More very impressive results here! Amazing job with the new water, everyone! David put it best above--I couldn't have said it any better myself!
Just wanted to share a few more pictures of what Ive been doing with the new water.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters1.jpg&hash=eea494182d762f510af9d456daa5f03247394f3d)
I tested using the water rapids under the transparent water (a still screenshot doesnt do it justice).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters2.jpg&hash=e166f12f8f888e47fc9ee19ec36a402c780f3e47)
Close up of the shore of the lake.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters3.jpg&hash=69c40d501a28d1d637f715b2e127cb47ca2bf27e)
An island in the lake (black part is unfinished).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters4.jpg&hash=b843d1a72f87644a28ce2143117b1958cf04863a)
Further zoom.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters5.jpg&hash=4b5ba89c2d6268dd6b3a1b127442e7edb61b8ee9)
Even Further zoom.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters6.jpg&hash=c7c39f222868be4423bed5af5528388e92b0fb4c)
Rapids with transparent water running downhill.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters7.jpg&hash=3278a14cf5a3fab2aee0f46248291081273f169e)
Rapids up close.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fspicychipmunk.net%2Fscreenshots%2Fimages%2Fsiwaters8.jpg&hash=3f02bf43278689a8bee22632ec9d1de4ff117a49)
Waterfall up close.
This new water makes me just want to work on natural areas, I cant get myself to actually build a city now lol!
If there is a more appropriate place to post these kind of pictures in the future please let me know.
Im still a bit of a noob around here ;D
all these amazing pics makes me want to brush dust off the SC4 exe and start playing again after being real busy with the plaza mall and having RL stuff :thumbsup:
Sim Idiot: Looks really nice. I have one suggestion though conserning the rapids. I would suggest raising the effect prop a bit in Lot Editor to make it more visible aswell as getting rid of the glitches. :)
Quote from: metasmurf on October 13, 2007, 01:11:57 PM
I have one suggestion though conserning the rapids. I would suggest raising the effect prop a bit in Lot Editor to make it more visible aswell as getting rid of the glitches. :)
I did give that a try, and while it is an excellent idea, I couldnt get it to work.
The prop for the water can be raised, but the water that flows out of the prop seems to flow along the ground at the same level, no matter how far you raise the actual prop where the water originates.
Derbert : I forgot to put it in my last post but I wanted to say how much I liked the dirty water stream you made. Those nasty little dirty industries sure did a good job of polluting it up! :D
Sim_Idiot: What a great idea! I hadn't downloaded the old water because I was waiting for the transparent version. But I'm off to download the old water now... ;D
Hi again every1 ;D
@Sim_Idiot san, szarkoz and Derbert san.
Wow ! :o
What a beatiful pics you uped wich used Jeroni's new one !! &apls
Is your SC4 the same game as SC4 I have (lol)? ;D
Jeroni my friend god, you have created a save-able rain mod.
:thumbsup: I hated plop water. I liiiiiike this.
Oh yeah... rather than try to change the plop water to work with game water. Change the game water to look like the plop water. I think it would be fairly easy
Flame i think ya's might be a tad bit confussed here... this is Tranparent Ploppable Water... there is no mod that saves the rain effect at all yet... ;D
Wow, thanks once more to all for the feedback :thumbsup:
I am really glad to see that the water is working more or less as expected ;D . This is great ;) ¡¡¡¡
Some very nice pictures, and some really interesting techniques have been shown so far :thumbsup:
I have some other projects actually, which were stoped because of the TPW, and which I should take again and complete asap. After this, I will come back into the TPW to see what else can we do for it ;) .
Keep posting some pictures with your ideas. I love to see them ()stsfd()
( Btw, when I made my testing, I noticed that for the rapids you should place the foam effects at 0. It is the best place imo. The wawes can be seen under the water in a really nice and moving way ;) )
Quote from: patfirefghtr on October 14, 2007, 01:11:02 AM
Flame i think ya's might be a tad bit confussed here... this is Tranparent Ploppable Water... there is no mod that saves the rain effect at all yet... ;D
After some experimenting with effects, the problem is not only related to the Rain Water, but to all and any (pure) effect , like the rain, animals, automata, demolish explosions, and some more. The rain water tool places an effect on the ground. Since the effects are not saved, the water is not saved. I created aditional tools for the God Mode Fauna Menu, which allowed me to place a variated collection of effects, like the lava_meets_water , or the money_fountain ones, but I decided to not follow that way because of the mentioned problem ( they are not saved &mmm )
Quote from: patfirefghtr on October 14, 2007, 01:11:02 AM
Flame i think ya's might be a tad bit confussed here... this is Tranparent Ploppable Water... there is no mod that saves the rain effect at all yet... ;D
Nope, I know it isn't a saved effect. I was speaking metaphorically. I know it isn't "real" rain - but this is pretty much equivalent.
I'm aware effects do not save... but lot based ones do (like waterfalls work) so why not make a modular lot system for transitions to water.
Quote from: Derbert on October 13, 2007, 06:21:00 AM
I thought I'd have a go using the dirty water....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F6623%2Fploppabletransparentbrosy2.jpg&hash=15a7918f1e4b8e1f06d29a0f6eb1f0808de5f95a)
I have an information for those who would like to plop the new PW into the ingame water as Derbert showed (it is a very good idea, I am working on it from some time too :), you can see it in my MD in the first update (below the dam))
If you want to see the Jeronij's ploppable water on the bottom of the ingame one, it's depth should be not more than 4 meters. it is connected with the fact that PW pieces are 4 meters high.
I haven't time to make nice pictures and carefully flatten the sea bottom. I want to show the principle.
The sea level is 250 m. Here we have 249,3 m (the depth is 0,7 m). PW is clearly visible.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F9366%2Fimg1266impjf3.jpg&hash=20f576b7cc88f3797e80dbd02da486b383ea2ffd)
Here we have exactly 4 m depth. The PW is still visible.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F6504%2Fimg1267impfu5.jpg&hash=d3c525d7ae75822dae2a5dd94a63d39ddb42ccc5)
And here we have 243,9 m, so the sea depth is 6,1 m. PW pieces are present (as the query says), but invisible.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F4639%2Fimg1270imprt5.jpg&hash=03d30c33fe59a77eb46ec01730172171fa875fb6)
The transition at the 4 m depth is sharp and it doesn't look nice, but there isn't a problem to hide it. Using the same beach mod as Derbert and me (Olympic Beach) I suggest to use Jeronij's green rocks. Using other beach mods you must choose another method :)
Here's an explanation of how I created the transition between TPW and game water.
As Ennedi noted, I Have used th Olympic Beach along with Extended Beach Mod for 13 and Missouri Breaks Muddy Water.
A close-up of the transition:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg90.imageshack.us%2Fimg90%2F7573%2Ftpw1om0.jpg&hash=f272796f5276ebf6f76021a92be9635337130eb2)
...again from a different angle with waves turned off:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg339.imageshack.us%2Fimg339%2F4110%2Ftpw1ank6.jpg&hash=218f88f2b9a3057b3f55ec15a80e72e5ee11ea97)
At night....you can see it more clearly!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F9423%2Ftpw2ox3.jpg&hash=3e3865167f396bf23fa3537c00acda998d885edf)
The transition with most plops removed:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg299.imageshack.us%2Fimg299%2F4136%2Ftpw2avo3.jpg&hash=0e8229d306fe06d6fe1790f0d6122c9afa067933)
First of all I lay down my river using Edmonton ploppable water,
then covered over it using Dirty TPW as suggested by Sim_idiot.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg84.imageshack.us%2Fimg84%2F8761%2Ftpw3ol4.jpg&hash=d4f075d45225d880448ac13942094e797946269c)
I scattered some rocks along the river bead and some ploppable flora along the banks to blend better with the terrain
- and cover any glitches!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg84.imageshack.us%2Fimg84%2F5169%2Ftpw4tc1.jpg&hash=b38dab19f368e018d4c80a8d297b15a623be41c7)
Finally to complete the transition I used Jeronij's dirty water effect from the transition into game water,
out into the river mouth, until I thought the water was dirty enough.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg84.imageshack.us%2Fimg84%2F5169%2Ftpw4tc1.jpg&hash=b38dab19f368e018d4c80a8d297b15a623be41c7)
Just tidied things up a bit and added some more ploppable flora just to complete the effect.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F6623%2Fploppabletransparentbrosy2.jpg&hash=15a7918f1e4b8e1f06d29a0f6eb1f0808de5f95a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg201.imageshack.us%2Fimg201%2F2732%2Fplopwaterbk9.jpg&hash=c67a3dfd0dd0b7b3abc4f3d26999635d02dfbe33)
I kinda figured out independantly that you could place the PW on top of shallow water(just saw Ennedi's post) and used it to make a kind of extended transition that came out pretty good IMHO. You can see at the top of this second pic where I transitioned it to the shallow water, then to the deep at the bottom.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg90.imageshack.us%2Fimg90%2F5154%2Fplopwater3wl0.jpg&hash=efa359462b1073a7aeeb17f2862de07a6032043e)
The water mod is one I modified from Peg's Brigatine water some time ago, it just so happened to work very well with the brown here(not suprising since I made it to look brown :), but still a pleasant suprise.)
the water flora at the transition is actually my ditch prototype from the RRP that turned out to make a good makeshift shoreline overgrown with hydrila(or whatever water grass/weeds you'd like to see it as)
These are all very impressive pictures. I'm really liking the muddy water, I think I'm going to be playing around with this very shortly.
Great job jeronij.
Robin :thumbsup:
Superb work, all of you.
Isn't it time to release "Simcity 5" by ourselves. Considering the NAM, the CAM, all the thousands of LOT's and BAT's, modds and now this TPW?
Why wait for EA or some other commercial business?
Quote from: FrankU on October 15, 2007, 07:46:05 AM
Superb work, all of you.
Isn't it time to release "Simcity 5" by ourselves. Considering the NAM, the CAM, all the thousands of LOT's and BAT's, modds and now this TPW?
Why wait for EA or some other commercial business?
Well, the biggest problem is the copyright stuff. The second problem is that, despite all our addons, its still undeniably the same game/engine, and no matter how much we changed it, the best we could market it as is an expansion pack. Finnally, alot of the stuff, awesome as it is, simply doesn't work right all the time. GLR still crashes my game routinely because of where I hold my cursor. Same with the elevated rail to normal rail transition--that makes it crash once and a while too when i try to plop it.
In regards to the topic at hand, however, I find it fabulous. I've already did one thing with it, and, though I don't have pictures yet (perhaps this afternoon I can show you it), it came out quiet nice. One thing, though--can anyone tell me where to get smaller shrubs and water bushes in a flora pack? all the refferences I've found have been discontinued on the STEX...
Quote from: Toichus Maximus on October 15, 2007, 11:15:51 AM
GLR still crashes my game routinely because of where I hold my cursor. Same with the elevated rail to normal rail transition--that makes it crash once and a while too when i try to plop it.
Please stop using the Ploppable GLR then... There is Draggable GLR and it takes half the time to lay and we have eliminated 99.9% of crashes due to it being a draggable network. Have you tested the SAM projects? Draggable GLR works in the exact same fashion and I wouldnt be surprised if the original Ploppable GLR makes its exit from the NAM in the future.
I meant when i plop the stations, glr-in-avenue, or try to transition between my subterranean or elevated networks. You still have to use the plops then. The actual network placing is fine. :satisfied:
In any event, I have the pictures of my rather mundane experimentation:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FCholkoPond-Jul13091192478600.png&hash=4830bd9c8843971da3ca14ad12069cf4ecd2dd0f)
This was the basic transition I did to water. The waterfall draws attention from the slight change in color.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FCholkoPond-Jul13091192479182.png&hash=f5ede7abfeb7c4561aeaa0fe7c01caa533421c9b)
This is it dressed up further. Its nearly impossible to notice the transition with the rocks lining it.
Next, I worked on how to make the river itself look good. I used alot of sorchin's rocks here:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FCholkoPond-Jul13091192477812.png&hash=f1346340b70ce14763dc59f4fe980a36fb281c26)
I liked the effect it gave of a sort of rapid feel but a gentler type, like in franconia notch, NH:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frosswarner.com%2Fbasin1med.jpg&hash=a1775df25e7abf6c8b0d36e0bccbf4f2b5f1f7a2)
Next, I tried for a swamp using the green water. This came out quiet well, as the bushes and sorchin's mossy rocks seemed to actually be IN the water. This worked especially well with the dead trees:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FSturgesSpring-Jan8001192486362.png&hash=cc223567a4944cb23e65e54336571be4ed166647)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FSturgesSpring-Jan8001192486343.png&hash=5eb2878c0ef6b9e81511086d76266b7becf646e0)
These both actually look much better than any swamp i've ever done before.
Finnally, springs. The sorchin rocks around the spring worked well, I found:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FSturgesSpring-Jan8001192486381.png&hash=a832e2ab478315bdaeefebb38da550c9f85dfd71)
In short, this is the most amazingly versatile waterset i've ever seen. You sir, are a genius!
Quote from: Toichus Maximus on October 15, 2007, 06:48:05 PM
I meant when i plop the stations, glr-in-avenue, or try to transition between my subterranean or elevated networks. You still have to use the plops then. The actual network placing is fine. :satisfied:
Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but the stations and transitions are transit enabled lots, not puzzel pieces so should not cause any crashes. If you are getting them you need to post it in the NAM thread, and alert whoever developed them.
The Springs look great fellas...I redownloaded those rocks just so I could use them with the transparent water plops.
Diggis someone said I should contact you im making all of the mmls you see on this list. They should be out by 10/22/07
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2681.0
All is looking very fantastic @ all!
Quote Toichus Maximus: "Well, the biggest problem is the copyright stuff. The second problem is that, despite all our addons, its still undeniably the same game/engine, and no matter how much we changed it, the best we could market it as is an expansion pack."
Sure, I know this. I didn't mean this litterally, but I am so overwhelmed by the work that is been done here, I feel a bit ashamed that the only thing I can add to this game and this site is look in awe and donate some bucks. Just no time to do some addons myself....
All the stuff from SC4D and Simtropolis made the game so much more interesting that I didn't feel like buying a new game in more than a year, because there is still so much to explore here.....
And about your question: on Gizmo's site (http://gizmo.lunarpages.com/index.php, under Miscellaneous Mods) you can find a download: Waterflora-V2. It contains ploppable waterlillies, cattails, underwater plants... Pity the waterlillies stay underwater with these transparent plops.. Maybe someone could edit this?
Thank you so much Jeroni .... ( and all those who have already experimented & shown the incredible applications ...)
Thank you so much , coming back to the last previews of SCS and CU ... (no comment) .
That's due to people like you that SC4 will rock for years ...if it's not for eternity . I know , eternity that's long , mostly near the end . :D
:thumbsup: &apls &apls &apls
Thanks for the link, FrankU. I've needed this for quite some time.
And I get what you're saying now, and I totally agree with you.
;D
WOW, insane!.... I mean that looks insanely goodliziously breathtakingly nice :D
take care,
very nice :thumbsup: cant wait :P
Two questions:
I see a lot of bridges over the ploppable water. Do you make these by using the rainmod and dragging roads over it, or is there another way? I thought SC4 didn't allow bridges except over ingame water? Or did I overlook ploppable and TE'd bridges?
Second: when using Gizmo's ploppable flora I see that the beautiful waterlillies grow under water, which is pity. Does anyone know how to change which value in the dat-file? Or should I ask Gizmo to do it for me?
I also experimented with canyons, canals, waterfalls, etc. Beautiful, beautiful. They get better every day.
I ask myself: when am I going to play the game again? I'm just terraforming and landscaping now... Big fun.
FrankU, unfortunately the lillies are rendered at height=0 so they will stay always under the TPW unles you create a lot and place them up to 4 meters &mmm
However, the model is freely available somewhere in the web, so it could be re-rendered again.... ::)
About bridges, I usually use the rain mod to place them easily or in more flat positions. However most of the bridges ( Maxis and custom) can be placed in land. But you must find the right position for it, which will not always be the desired one $%Grinno$%
Thanks Jeronij,
re-rendering is above my skilllevel and putting them on a Lot will probably not give a very useful solution. So maybe I have to live with it.. I will be able to succeed in this.
And the bridges: I didn't know this, but now I know enough.
what id like o know is where did you get the water fall water from? Only waterfall water ive seen comes with Pegs pond...unless thats one of the things in JrJ's effects pack on the exchange.
Excellent job !!! The texture, color, and transparency are the best I've seen to date. After playing with the pieces a bit, my only thought for a change would be to try 1 meter raised instead of 4.
Been working some more, came up with a couple of ideas using it, thought you all'd be interested:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FSturgesMound-Nov29011192995034.png&hash=6f14e075162cd7adea975da8774d5c392e720fec)
Made a sort of channel for the water in my industrial zone using the viaduct for one side and the coal mine for the other. The channel needs to be deeper than you'd expect, and you need to carve it twice to be sure it works. Then the water gets a nice diverted effect. I got this idea from a brownfields site near my home.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr190%2Ftrebuchet77%2FSturgesMound-Nov29011192995209.png&hash=e954dc851f8626d00bfd39286895709d915f5bef)
I think this marsh came out better than the last one I did, ne?
Toichus Maximus that lake looks sooo bautiful, make me eager to use this transparent plopable water ;D
Cabal and marsh are beautiful. This weekend I also did some experiments and I am getting the feeling of it. The lots are awfully useful. Jeronij, you don't know how great these plops are....
SimNation, the waterfall lots are, I suppose, Dedgren's waterfalls (downloaded them myself but did not yet use them...). You can find them here:
http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16394
Funny enough not on SC4Devotion.
FrankU,
Thanks a mil I couldnt find waterfalls anywhere, would be nice if it woulda been made to plop below the transparent plop water by the effect stay level with it. Id do it myself but don have a clue how to do that sorta stuff.
Hello. I'm curious. Isn't the TPW supposed to work both on land and in the water? I was under the impression that the "WaterFlora" Property when set to "True" is supposed to get plop's to work in water . For some reason The TPW isn't working in water for me. Can someone help clarify this?
Thanks..
Quote from: dogfight on December 09, 2007, 12:39:25 PM
Hello. I'm curious. Isn't the TPW supposed to work both on land and in the water? I was under the impression that the "WaterFlora" Property when set to "True" is supposed to get plop's to work in water . For some reason The TPW isn't working in water for me. Can someone help clarify this?
Thanks..
Nothing wrong with your installation ;) . You are experiencing one of the actual limitations of the TPW &mmm. It conflicts with the real water, so you must carefully "fake" the transitions ;) .
In fact, the conflict between Jeronij's TPW and the ingame water can happen - exactly as with other ploppable water - only if you use some particular water mods (for example Mayor Bean Ocean River Mod).
I showed Jeronij's TPW placed on the river bed in this thread. You can see it here. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2581.msg80684#msg80684)
As you can read in my message, if you want to see Transparent Ploppable Water placed on the river bed, the water depth should be max 4 m.
I showed also very good Derbert's picture (he also placed TPW into the ingame water). Here is the complete Derbert's message. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2581.msg80353#msg80353)
I use PEG's Brigantine Water Mod and I can place TPW and other ploppable water in the ingame water without any problems (but it need some work to achieve a good effect).
This theme will be discussed in my MD in the near future - I'm very sorry for my absence, it's temporary, i have too much work in RL now :)
Edit: You can see two other interesting messages below my message: Derbert's explanation (how he did it), and Chrisadams' attempt, very good done too.
Thanks all. I'll have to take a look at the threads and see what I can do :thumbsup:
I must add I'm not surprised Jeronij's opinion - he probably has another water mod. Ploppable water was used in connection with an ingame water only by a few people and there were no serious investigation of this problem (in fact it's rather secondary problem for most people ;)).
So if someone tries to put the PW into the ingame water and it doesn't work, he rather don't check what will happen if he will change the water mod, he rather thinks the reason is the PW's behaviour. In fact, I don't know why PW works well with some water mods and doesn't work with others, I would like to check it.
First off I want to say I have been away from Sim City for some time now but now I am back only to see this AMAZING new water texture by Jeronij. The only thing I can say is I admire people like you here in SCD that take so much time off real life just just give us amazing mods. Thank you all very much.
Now I have a quick question. Where can I find this grass?
Quote from: jeronij on October 07, 2007, 03:04:18 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test03.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/JRJ_PlopWater_V4_Test05.jpg)
I looked for it on Gizmo's site but I already have his water flora mod and I still can't find that grass. Could anyone post me a link please?
Thanks in advance and once again congratulations on the fine work!
The Grass is available in Jeronij Prop Pack Vol04 - Trees (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=921)
gmavignier, nice to see you around here again and thanks for the comments. I am glad you like the new TPW :thumbsup:
Derbert, thanks for that useful link :thumbsup:
Quote from: Derbert on December 12, 2007, 08:42:01 AM
The Grass is available in Jeronij Prop Pack Vol04 - Trees (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=921)
[Elvis like voice] Thank you. Thank you very much. [/Elvis like voice] I guess I have some keep up to do with the File Exchance.
Hi! I've just downloaded this amazing piece of work and start on my first ploppable water lake. I'm using the technique the sim_idiot demonstrated (edmonton underneither transparent on top). It's turned out to be very time consuming becuse of all the little spots... maybe a picture would explain better.
Anyways, does anyone have a fast way of working this or is everyone just slowly covering them up one by one.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi254.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh104%2Fmatty604%2FSaqinaw-Nov23001197787062.png&hash=210ad7f600494dd2027266a20c7b5c16cfb1e8dc)
i dont suppose you could recolour and remod your ploppable water so we could have ploppable oil slicks?
Quote from: default on December 16, 2007, 01:51:58 AM
Hi! I've just downloaded this amazing piece of work and start on my first ploppable water lake. I'm using the technique the sim_idiot demonstrated (edmonton underneither transparent on top). It's turned out to be very time consuming becuse of all the little spots... maybe a picture would explain better.
Anyways, does anyone have a fast way of working this or is everyone just slowly covering them up one by one.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi254.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh104%2Fmatty604%2FSaqinaw-Nov23001197787062.png&hash=210ad7f600494dd2027266a20c7b5c16cfb1e8dc)
Quote from: mightygoose on March 30, 2008, 07:28:47 PM
i dont suppose you could recolour and remod your ploppable water so we could have ploppable oil slicks?
I am sorry guys but I dont have the time atm to create more versions of that plop &mmm . However, you can download the original models and textures from the LEX, and create your own versions with the size/shape/colour you prefere ;) . Please, feel free to do it :thumbsup:
I decided to try and make my own using JRJ_TPW_Models_and_textures and Pegs' Brigantine textures so i extracted the FSH files and converted them to BMP.(using FiSHman)
I then opened MAX8 and opened the first MAX scene...TRANSWATER PLOP1X1.max , changed the texture to the brigantine texture , saved the scene as a .max and as a .3DS, and preceded to do the same for the next model. So then I fired up the B.A.T and tried to import the .3DS files....Gmax couldn't render and closed.
I then decided to set up BAT for max from ST and followed the instructions (editing the paths in the .ini )etc. Started MAX back up and saw the ST stuff(export)etc..looked just like the BAT , so I tried to render the first scene , got the dialog box asking if I wanted to render the 20 views ,clicked yes and then I get another dialog box stating that it couldn't because the .SC4 model (JRJ_TransWater_Plop1x1_01-0x5ad0e817_0x734d2b0b_0x30000.SC4Model) couldn't be found in the plugin directory and to be sure to check the plugin path in the BATFORMAX.ini.
Ok , after seeing this , I moved everything out of the C:\Documents and Settings\Jayson\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins folder except for the MAX scenes and the actual SC4 model file JRJ_TransWater_Plop1x1_01-0x5ad0e817_0x734d2b0b_0x30000.SC4Model , tried it again and get the same results.
I really wanted to try to do this myself but since I really don't know much when it comes to MAX or any 3d program I am asking for some help...please.
Thanks in advance...
Jayson
Hello Jayson
I cant help much with those technical issues, sorry. But I can suggest you to go the easy way and make your own model directly in GMAX. You can study the MAX model's geometry and the different modifiers that are applied, you can also study the material maps used (only one in fact) and do the same in the GMAX. Dont forget to add the transparency to the material.
Once you have rendered the model and you can open it with the reader, you will have to manually change some alpha related parameters, but this is the same for MAX made models, so it is unavoidable ::)
You can also try to export the geometry without textures from your MAX as 3ds and import it in GMAX. Re-texture it there and try. Who know ?¿
The only difference (for this model) between MAX and GMAX is the rendering speed, but since the models is not that big, it shouldnt take that long in GMAX ;)
I hope this suggestion helps
Thanks for the suggestions! Unfortunately , I am to much of a novice to even figure out the geometry etc. %confuso I just have to face it , I need much practice ()testing() Thanks again Jeronji . :thumbsup:
Another suggestion that comes to my mind would be to open the model in MAX and check if it is a mesh. If it isnt, then convert it into a mesh (right click on the model and "convert to") before exporting it as a .3ds .
If the models are not editable meshes, it may export wrongly.
Just in case... ;)
Also, the original model was created with MAX7. Perhaps you should save a copy in MAX 8 before making any changes/exports.
I believe the problems Jayson is haveing with MAX are due to the mistake made in editing max.ini
The path to the plugin folder MUST end with "/"
Thank you Jeronij and SimFox for your help and suggestions , however , I still must be doing something wrong! Nothing I have tried is working. :'( I just need to practice with these programs.
Jayson
Sorry to double post but I finally was able to get the files to export correctly (had to use Rhino)...anyway, I looked at the .dat files for the originals and I'm not sure of a few things...I can't quite understand how to get them in-game.I looked at the tut about mayor mode plops and am even more confused.I understand how to get the occupant groups but do I need a unique (to me) ID ?I have other questions but I don't want to ramble about things I don't know! I know that you are busy with R/L stuff , just wondering if there was a tutorial on this or I am just blind?
Thanks again!
Jayson
Hello Jayson,
You have two ways to use the models in game:
You can create props and use them in a transparent park lot (easy way, but very limited when it comes to place determinated water layouts ::) )
or
You can re-read the tutorial and use it as the basis to create your own plop mod. This is the recommended way ;) . You need one ID for your exemplar, and you can use almost anyone you want, except the ranges mentioned in the tutorial. If you are planning to create more plop mods, you can think about reserving your own range.
If you have more questions related to the modding, please, post them in the tutorial thread, so it may be helpful for other interested members as well :thumbsup:
Quote from: Ennedi on October 14, 2007, 10:18:32 AM
If you want to see the Jeronij's ploppable water on the bottom of the ingame one, it's depth should be not more than 4 meters. it is connected with the fact that PW pieces are 4 meters high.
I haven't time to make nice pictures and carefully flatten the sea bottom. I want to show the principle.
The sea level is 250 m. Here we have 249,3 m (the depth is 0,7 m). PW is clearly visible.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F9366%2Fimg1266impjf3.jpg&hash=20f576b7cc88f3797e80dbd02da486b383ea2ffd)
Here we have exactly 4 m depth. The PW is still visible.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F6504%2Fimg1267impfu5.jpg&hash=d3c525d7ae75822dae2a5dd94a63d39ddb42ccc5)
And here we have 243,9 m, so the sea depth is 6,1 m. PW pieces are present (as the query says), but invisible.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F4639%2Fimg1270imprt5.jpg&hash=03d30c33fe59a77eb46ec01730172171fa875fb6)
The transition at the 4 m depth is sharp and it doesn't look nice, but there isn't a problem to hide it. Using the same beach mod as Derbert and me (Olympic Beach) I suggest to use Jeronij's green rocks. Using other beach mods you must choose another method :)
I know it has been a long time this thread to be updated but , please i would like to know how we measure deep and height in game as Ennedi mentioned in this post in page 11 of this threadthanx
QuoteI know it has been a long time this thread to be updated but , please i would like to know how we measure deep and height in game as Ennedi mentioned in this post in page 11 of this thread
thanx
Download this (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18212) then run the game, press Ctrl+X and right-click on the small field on the upper left corner of your screen. A list will appear, somewhere you'll find something like Terrain Query, click on it. Then press the "/" button on your keyboard and then hover the cursor over the place that you want to know it's height. I hope I've helped.
or get the cheats.dll (here (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Plugin:SC4_Extra_Cheats.dll)) and do the same
Joe
I didn't see VeTram's question earlier, but he sent me a PM and I answered. Of course both of you are right, thank you guys for your help! :thumbsup:
Adam
Quote
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/jrj/twater/Trans_Water_V6_02.jpg)
Wow it's looking so realistic! &apls
but i got a question: where do you found these "wonderfull" trash?
that would be on the LEX and search under Jeronij... ;) BTW welcome to Devotions there nas-t!!!
amazing ;)
thx a lot...
I am working on a CJ/MD and would like a re-textured version to look like coal on the ground, if not then could somebody help me out?
looks cool :)
ploppable water is excactly what I am waiting for
I'm sorry if his has already been asked/answered elsewhere, and I am sorry too for awakening a fairly old thread, but I was just wondering if there was some trick to getting these TPW pieces to fill in the space under EL network puzzle pieces? I have tried with the largest pieces (I get the fact that its not possible to plop on the same tile as the puzzle piece) but still I am left with a sliver of open air at the middle of under the road.
You should try to draw with the mouse pointer, instead making single clicks when "plopping" the water. It should help you to place the water pieces closely, thus covering better the space. I hope you didnt know about the trick, and that it helps ;)
When I plop these TPWs and change zoom I lose the visuals. Still get the query. I have just redownloaded and tried with and without datpacking. here's pics to show you.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg39.imageshack.us%2Fimg39%2F2074%2Fsc4tpw1.png&hash=a3d5fb4ea1faa3446e5d6000ac8ba8bfebcea5ef)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg39.imageshack.us%2Fimg39%2F7053%2Fsc4twp2.png&hash=c3f517dd825533d35f019c026905f938d535ec08)
Hope someone can help.
Where can I find the fallen log plops? They, combined with the rocks and flora plops looks so amazing and realistic, but I can't find them anywhere... ()what()
I see this topic has not been used in many a days, however for water ever reason The Transparent Ploppbale water does not appear at all. I plop it in a certain area and after a few second it disapears. If I zoom out or in it will reappear but only for a few seconds, any help?
-Matt
Quote from: MattyFo on August 03, 2010, 07:02:37 PM
I see this topic has not been used in many a days, however for water ever reason The Transparent Ploppbale water does not appear at all. I plop it in a certain area and after a few second it disapears. If I zoom out or in it will reappear but only for a few seconds, any help?
-Matt
I have the same problem but the water's appearance depends on what video driver I'm using. I have a NVidia 295 card and the latest driver doesn't show the water but the driver before this one did.
My operating system is WIN7... didn't have this problem with Windows XP.