Since this seem like a community of people who can handle a little constructive criticism, I decided to start this thread so that people can ONLY post things they
would do different. Please do not post "looks great".
Think what would you do different, what seems odd, what could be made more visually appealing, more effective. If you are afraid of people picking apart your cities this is not the place for you.
oh yeah and as for my pic, it is half of a large tile, i will take your suggestions and post again a full large tile mosaic when i finish the other half. (Sprawl Alert)
My Start (http://www.fileden.com/pview.php?fid=145044&fname=MASSIVECOOL.JPG)
Heh, well since you asked!!
Your road network layout is flawless. The building locations could not be any better for this type of layout. The parkland is very realistic. Building selection is amazing.
It's tough to be critical of this work. But if I had to mention something, there is the matter of the "big dig" lot tunnel entrance. It appears to travel under the river, however it is real close to the seawall. This would make the angle of the roadway a little extreme, especially considering that roadway in the lot piece is on not that significant of an angle...
If the water is only 2m deep, then you can disregard. So that's all I can really see. This was like trying to criticize planet earth! How am I supposed to do that?
Good ideas AK
Hard to find something on your pic that I'm not jealous of , but I tried hard:
Honestly I would not have put that many goldiva marina all arounds. I would have reserved an area for a 'big marina' where I would have put everything marina related
I'm not sure about the walled elrail in the downtown, but that is because I'm accustomed to Paris elevated subway
I do not see much avenues, maybe it is because of the skyscrapper forest, but it looks strange to not have avenues in that kind of city
Hope it is not sound too rude, and enough constructive :p
If I could do it different...
...I would have been born rich!
Good luck, Alek!
Quote from: wouanagaine on January 29, 2007, 06:46:46 AM
Good ideas AK
Hard to find something on your pic that I'm not jealous of , but I tried hard:
Honestly I would not have put that many goldiva marina all arounds. I would have reserved an area for a 'big marina' where I would have put everything marina related
I'm not sure about the walled elrail in the downtown, but that is because I'm accustomed to Paris elevated subway
I do not see much avenues, maybe it is because of the skyscrapper forest, but it looks strange to not have avenues in that kind of city
Hope it is not sound too rude, and enough constructive :p
nope that was perfect all things that i consider great suggestions and what i think we should strive for, and it should really help the community.
In reply yeah I could not agree more about the marinas looking at it not and then comparing to real like, it would look way better in one area or a couple clusters i should get some more BATs for that too. (Good thing i have another side of the canal).
The walled L train is kinda a compromise for me, and i will be the first to admit it is lacking in realism, however the L over road just doesn't seem to work right and is far from flexible and the bright green grass textures that show up underneath the L tracks is way too out of place in an urban city, so I try to fake it. Maybe i should learn how to make a lot with an overhanging prop to go under the tracks?
you are also dead on about the avenues, but the way i see it the commercial zones love to be along
high traffic zones, so if my sims have a quick commute along a highway or rail line and then all deposited in one
place it seems to fit the game engine well, but looks quite fake indeed.
Dedgren ... :D
Alek ... the only thing really bothering me about the picture is the use of the fishing harbours. The entire picture looks realistic enough, except for the repetative fishing harbours.
Wow, Alek King Great downtown. I would have put in more parks, thats just my preference and not really a problem with your city.
Here's my cities CBD. I was wondering what I could do to better it.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atilligonefilms.info%2FSC4CJ%2FNemonos%2Fupdate_11%2Fdowntown.jpg&hash=774f751ee42c196a217d7cfad0ae172780526182)
first off i have to go and get that tower in the middle. ;D
First the big issue i have is that for a city with such large towers, it seems to have very little infrastructure.
I see a rail line but only a handful of small maxis stations, how about a large central station?
It would also be strange to see a city with skyscrapers like that and no highway access (maybe it is off screen?)
The residential zoning seems overly $$$ in just about every large city you have way more $$ and even more $. Obviously $$$ looks nices, however it messes up your demand and you will have issues with abandonement, which are starting to show along the bottom.
The last issue is that the zoning seems a little crazy, $$$ boutiquesm next to industrial parks and rail lines?
oh yeah and way too many repeats, get the SC4 DAT packer and get your download on.
Giligone - Do something with that shoreline. Seawall, park, anything but bare sand and grass in downtown.
-ACE
Okay, I have one.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg252.imageshack.us%2Fimg252%2F2387%2Fanduinsdeltanov12021170pj4.jpg&hash=8779ad65061a068cace8a6d57cc21a899f10ff9d)
-Caleb
I'll just comment on Alek's pic this time around. I'll get back to the rest of it when I have more time, but right now I'm in a bit of a rush.
First off: residential spacing. All in all it looks great, but some of those midrise residential buildings that looks like they have windows on the sides of them has been placed like they were really w2w stuff. That looks a little cluttered.
Second: Marina repeat 2-3 Goldiva marinas I can live with, but isn't 14 a little much? I know there are not many optional BAT:s out there, but that's still to many in my book. Maybe some lot editing would solve the issue. And maybe you don't really need that many marinas?
That being said, I really have to add: &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
That is one majorly INSANE downtown area!
Menotyou => I think the trees are too much repetitive/dense. you may try download sorchin/goldiva rocks and put some instead of trees.
And someone really need to remake goldiva water flora to make it less flashy
This looks like a good idea.
Ok starting with Menotyou:
I think the trees on the right hand river border could be merged better, at the moment there is a very sharp change between the light and dark trees. Mixing them a bit would look better. But I have this problem too.
On the lower left just above the pink script, there are some lots on the cliff. I love the rock texture you are using, but I think the lots could be merged with the rock a bit better here. Sometimes I find it better to only zone where there is some green patches on the neighbouring tiles to improve the merge, or you could add some sea walls, or possible some vegetation.
There is also quite a lot of road there with little or no zoning. While this looks nice, I'm usually careful not to put too much road without zones, as the roads are expensive to maintain, and need the taxes from the built on zones. If it works for you that's fine, I just like to keep my budget in the black, and this is one of the ways I do that.
Its a pretty picture though. Well done, and thanks for putting it up for critique :thumbsup:
Edit 1:
Next up - Giligone
Nice downtown I love the buildings you have there and the trees look great. However I think you could do better with the beach. I think it needs to be made less natural and more commercial. Perhaps a beach mod like the white sand beach and maybe some commercial recreational options that you might see on a city beach, eg people sunbathing, canoes for hire, maybe some piers and high speed ferries or a tourist attraction.
The merge between city and beach could be made a little less sharp, for example near the centre top, right where the tall blue building next to the beach is, there are some very bright green turf squares turning straight into beach sand with square edges. You could put some diagonal garden or wall lots to soften the transition.
Some nice palms would look good, especially some of the lighted ones by N7 (although smaller versions would be great). Perhaps also some commercial fishing and recreational boats? Marker bouys (for shark nets), patrolled beaches, surf skis, sailboards, para-sailing (I don't know if all of these are available but they would look great)
This would also be a great stretch of beach for a massive fireworks show, and a night shot could look spectacular, especially with lighted palms and lighted boats.
AK,
Regarding your pic, I have mainly 2 thing I'd like to point out:
1. I have lurked around your many CJs and failed to distinguish one from the other. All your cities seem the same, with the same buildings, the same network configurations with the same kind of flat land where the only height differences come from either sunken highways, elevated railways or mountains that the development is surrounding. I would suggest that you tried to build your cities using more hills and terrain conforming development, as in my personal opinion quantity does not match quality in SC4.
2. When looking at this particular pic, one thing that really hurts my eyes is the usage of Blahdy's BigDig lots (and underwater tunnels in general). Many, including myself, fall to use them the way you have, putting them next to the shoreline. Why? I see two major drawbacks in this: It isn't very realistic. Cars travelling the tunnel either find out that the road under them descents rather steeply or hit a near vertical wall, depending on their direction. The tunnel literally sinks under the sea floor in a distance under about 96 metres. The other problem I fail to understand is why wouldn't you just place the tunnel portals way away from the shore to release the land for development? That's why they build those underground highways in real life, because highways tend to take a large portion of land.
Hope you don't find this aggressive, as I do realize the amount of work you have put into your cities. But nevertheless I think none of your cities stand out on their own.
Some great suggestions everyone, this has tunred out great and just what i had in mind. I really can't wait to start on some of the great suggestions i got here, man just looking at those marinas is driving me crazy now :D
Also i think this city might be a perfect place to try out some of the new highway bridges :D
as for the flatness........I guess that is the Chicago influence shinging through ::)
ok onto menotyou-what is with the excessive extra roadage, is that i race test track or something?
and i can't really tell what is going on the upper left some sort of lot, looks like it is snow covered. this just really seems like a work in progress to me.
Hey this is a nice and friendly place where I finally get to critic AK.
Hum, let's see...
...hum..
...hummm....
...ah, maybe this... nahhh...
...hum....
...humm.....
...hummm......
:angrymore: .... I hate you, I hate you, I hate you :angrymore: :bomb:
Nothing to critic, I'm gone and never come back $%Grinno$%
Now, seriously, the marinas it's the only weak point, but I'm sure you know that too and if you could bat that would had never happen ;) This also a shout to all you batters out there, there is some good stuff out there for fishing and industrial ports, but hardly nothing to make a decent marina. Some nice props would be just nice to begin ;)
Thanks for the comments.
sam: That is a older shot and I have redone that area, with better matchs of trees, and I'm going to get rid of some of those roads.
Gilgone: While I appreciate that the pic in itself looks great (Match Color adds a nice effect:P) I have a few things to say. First of all, I think some new BATs could pull it up to a whole new level. Using mainly maxis buildings can be a style of building in itself, but as i'm sure many people will agree with, it's getting kind of old. Seeing how your style is very American, I think a few of spa, jasoncw and Don Miguels bats would really help.
Also, A city that can boast 2 skyscrapers is likely to have a highway-system, or atleast an avenue. Creating a coastal highway, or a main avenue would help make things more realistic. Third, I think that creating a main railway-station rather than just using the small, default maxis ones would be a good idea.
Finally, i'd like to see something done with the waterfront. Using one of the many waterfront kits available could really liven things up.
Good luck! :)
Mentoyou: First of all, I want to say that the area is very well terraformed. My main complaint is that I think the road-network is perhaps a bit too "square", if you get what I mean. I think that if you made the roads move a little more organically, perhaps using some diagonals, that would make things alot better. Seccond, while this is a matter of taste, you should replace the maxis trees with cycledoggs trees. I think that the way you've done it now, using cycledoggs shore pines and maxis oaks, you get a very sharp contrast of colors that really doesen't look that good. Also, I think you should remove the "brick-street" mod, since the red color it gives doesen't really, in my opinion fit in with the environment.
Finally, I think that if you just add a little more development, some commercial perhaps, It would be perfect!
You've done a good job so far, and the area doesen't need more than a little work to look really good.
Here's a shot from me. This is a city that I created about a year ago, but I was never completely happy with it.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg486.imageshack.us%2Fimg486%2F8007%2Focencanr1.jpg&hash=ab056669554833bda37764f77f34b922ee2f0e6d)
Fire away!
first off welcome to the site &apls
the first thing i notice is the zoning seems off. the middle third and bottom third look switched up. for a American stlye city you would have your dense CBD (top) then the dense Res and then maybe some IND, midrise and finally small homes. The reason this is so key in the game as well is that if most of your sims are commuting into the CBD as in real life then as you get closer and closer traffic gets worse and worse so you want your most dense develpments not to have to drive along way through sprawl. In the middle you are lacking a lot of density and the dense apartments towards the bottom are showing abandonment.
I would have put the industrial area a little further away, or at least used some large Warehouses to give it sort of a docks kinda feel, instead of those bright yellow maxis HT.
The transportation network, seems to be layed out quite nicely, and the only major issue is the repitition in buildings, but you did say it was an older city.
AK: Well, first of all, Amazing as ever $%Grinno$% great work.
Most of the major problems have already been mentioned (the repetitiveness of the marinas being the main one). I found in some places the repetition of certain buildings close together didn't look quite right. I espically found this look un-realistic where you are using haarlemmergold flats. In real live you would probably have one long building instead of 7 placed exactly next to each other, which all look the same, Of course, there may not be much you can do about this, As i don't think there are housing estates like this available.
Once again, excellent work! &apls
Giligone: It really needs seawalls, You would not have the Buildings just ending like that straight onto sand and water.
You also have high wealth commercial fronting straight onto industry, not realistic. Also you would have a rail corssing a road in that situation, you only really get this in rural areas and small towns, In fact, in the situation the rail would probably almost all be raised, or underground.
Menotyou: The underwater flora around your river looks really weird like that, I would defiantly use some rocks and have some trees growing into the water. Not sure about the use of red brick streets. Also you need to use more variety of trees, The trees in your picture seem to repeat themselves an awful lot.
Mulefisk: First of all i really like your highway where it reaches the downtown, it just look so realistic &apls
In real life you wouldn't get a seaport that close to the downtown, It would be further away and be bigger, same applies for the industry.
Heres my first entry:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg364.imageshack.us%2Fimg364%2F2918%2F02jf8.jpg&hash=1a0d9ee6cd927763e37225a2f1fe4d195f2298c5)
On Alek King:
I would have used Marrast's embankment set since I think it looks better in commerical areas. You have a lot of row house repetiton. I take it that you a row house fan? ;D A bit too many marinas for my taste. That transportation network... I bow in your presence and wish to aquire the knowlegde to put together a network like that.
On Mulefisk: It looks like you have a lot of avenues packed into a small space that might be better served by roads.
mjig_dudy: your picture looks very nice, but I can't see enough of your city to critique it. A more zoomed out shot would be better
Mulefisk: Nice screenshot, you have quite a few large buildings there. Someone mentioned too many avenues, but I don't know about that. I think if I had a city with that many tall buildings I would have a lot of traffic problems, even with the avenues you have there. I find as soon as there are three or four large buildings on the one road the congestion builds up a lot.
My only criticism is the sea walls, the terraforming of the coast line looks a little too square. I know its a game limitation with batted sea walls, though, as its difficult to bat them on angles.
mjig_dudy: I'm searching depseratly for things to compalin about, but it's really hard. :D All things considered the shot is very near perfect. &apls
Let me try anyway:
1. No cars? It doesn't really affect the quality of the building, but the street life looks a little weird with only pedestrians.
2. Heavy industry in such a developed area? It could work, but I would have liked to see more of that industry building to know how it fits the environment.
3. That line of parked cars on the side of the railroad tracks, where are they supposed to drive out?
Bah! I'm really struggling here, I'll just leave it at that and with a big :thumbsup:
mjig_dudy: You sure do make things hard! Only thing I can say about it is that the dark blue building on the left doesn't really match the realism of the rest of the shot. I think it may have something to do with the textures of the lot that it's on. Oh, and that one spot of niceness on that street where the rail goes under it. Don't know if you can change that, though. That's all I got...I'm sorry.
<Edit>:
:angrymore:
Aaaurgh! I've been waiting for someone to post in this thread for half a month so I could post again. So...ahh...I'm going to bump it, because I think it's a really good thread. And also because I have a picture to share:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi17.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb99%2FJetWarrior%2FSimCity%25204%2520Pics%2FRiversideLivingatDusk.jpg&hash=5f88a499a7f308cb3f3a15344da5a8b8bfff492b)
Have at it!...please?
It's a great looking pic. My concern is that a couple of those houses look like they are falling off the cliff! haha. Surely a big storm would cause them to all tumble into the sea?
I would second the cliff remark from Giligone (especially with the house on the 2nd roundabout down, the fence seems off) but I have seen houses in such precarious positions before in rl. What I also notice, from a realism standpoint, is that that seems to be a dangerous place for a playground (being so close to the roads, and surrounded by them for that matter). Otherwise it seems pretty good.
I'm going to bump a thread that hasn't had a post for almost a year and a half because, as so many have said here, this is a really good idea. If you have a pic of something SC4 that you've done that you want honest, straightforward feedback on, post it here. I invite folks who really think about how things can be done better in the game to stay tuned here, and to give us your insight on what you see. I bet we'll all learn something.
So, okay- how about this...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg406.imageshack.us%2Fimg406%2F6950%2Fteasergamewater14080613tb6.jpg&hash=78239b26441ef095a430e9335b53cea32b75a2c6)
What could I have done better? What, if anything, do you really like?
David
You've done a fine job with the rain tool it appears. However, it looks like the top edge of the water shows a bit on the right. I've noticed that plopping rocks (and other such large things) back from the bank a bit helps to ensure they cover the space instead of appearing to sink into the water. I might recommend using more plant life there, but not every part of a pond is bordered by plants. It also looks like you've done a good job of mixing flora varieties too (trees, plants, rocks, etc) it's not just all one type of each.
-Matt
I think its a great idea reviving this thread David, I'll second what Matt has said of the rocks and flora. Perhaps a larger patch of reeds (not too densely packs) will help hide some of the shoreline better as ponds and lakes on gentle slopes are usually dominated by them - I've also been experimenting with Chris's excellent flora and am really surprised at its versatility. Another idea would be to increase the gradient of some of the slopes to create small "cliffs", so that a hard edge against the raised terrain might look a little more natural.
Yes, great shot, and as others commenters, the only thing that can be work more is the straight bank of water, maybe add some patch of TPW and as etherian said, change some slope near the water to avoid the straight line effect
Great idea with this thread! I didn't see it earlier. Thank you David for reviving it! :thumbsup:
1. I have a strange feeling that rain water behaviour is different that "normal" water, never have I seen such straight water edge on irregular coast. It seems that ingame water gives more irregular edge, also without ripples (ripples can additionally mask some straight edges).
So making a nice looking lakeside is more difficult in this case. In addition, we can see straight edges along rocks placed in the shallow water, it looks odd too (and it doesn't happen both in ingame water and in TPW).
What can be done here?
- We should make very soft, almost flat terrain along the projected lakeside, even if we want to have bigger cavity in the centre of the lake.
- We should use more higher plants along the edge (not only cattails, but also Reed and Johnson grass from RRP set, Jeronij's bushes, maybe something from Gizmo Water Flora set). But not too much! We should visually break the straight line in many places and force the viewer to concentrate on other lakeside elements than the straight edge. So we should make groups of plants and rocks.
I would suggest to make an experiment only with rocks but on very soft lakeside, look what will happen, if it will look bad, then use flora first and then place rocks in free spaces.
2. We often arrange only the lake/riverside placing plants and rocks along it and leaving the rest of terrain as is. It looks bad. Everything should look reasonable. For example if you use grass at the lakeside, it would be good to plop some grass (maybe a different kind, with flowers, bushes etc.) away from the lakeside too, between trees etc. If you use rocks along the lakeside, you can also create a little talus field or make a small canyon and use it as a riverbed of a small dry stream putting stones along it.
3. Using the rain tool we must fill the cavity every time when we open the game. It would be good to check if we are able to put exactly the same amount of water and reach exactly the same water level every time. If yes, how to do it?
I have another suggestion to this thread: If we really want to learn something, it would be good to show a picture, read comments and suggestions and then try to follow them, remake the picture and show the result. This way we can see if our suggestions were good or not :)
Adam
Here is an old picture out my City Oceans City (at this time I had no RRP, so i can't use them on this pic)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fc0bbe5121a8c45c406e7a047e8e6d66b.jpg&hash=eeb84936d39c3801a667a34ceaf3d0cdec1f907b)
What could I do better on this Pic ?
Hey Sam Johnson-QuoteWhat could I do better on this Pic ?
Very little, if you ask me.
As a big proponent of the "wide curve" approach, I find your use of one here the only really "out of place" element in the pic, and that's because the catenary poles are discontinuous at the curve, which in turn then makes a jarring contrast with the "game" curve at the lower right. We need to add that to our list of things to ask the transit modding gods to do- add electrified railway support to wide curve and FARR trackage. Jan (swamper77) appears to be the go-to guy here. For right now, I actually might, had I been you, have left the wide curve out in favor of having a continuous line of catenary poles.
I really like the willow trees (at least that's what I'd imagine them to be) on the shores of the ponds. I think that the pond at the center of the pic, is more effective as a result of the more sparse spacing of the trees. I've never seen in RL a willow "thicket." The pond at the lower right also has a not really very natural "ring" of flora in it. Again, this is just a placement issue- I would have use less flora more irregularly.
It's a very fine pic, on the whole. You should rightly be proud of it.
* * *
Thanks to the folks who criticized mine- I'll be back with responses and follow-up over the weekend.
David
I like what you did to hide the puzzle-iness of the NAM curve, and the trees are nice... except the ones on the bottom edge of the bottom pond they look far to regular
Other pictures are good to, David's water is nice but a bit straight ;D
Great idea for a thread, will be keeping upto date with this in the future :)
Joe
Ok apart from the fact it's not finished i'm not sure what would make this city better
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg362.imageshack.us%2Fimg362%2F3361%2Foverview1ea7.jpg&hash=3d3b5e5a7dc1a702067d8938cca83c62efd71983)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg516.imageshack.us%2Fimg516%2F4522%2Foverview4yf5.jpg&hash=fe72545095b8191e277d0efe945665839017d656)
A good terrain mod to start off my help.
One suggestion I would have would be to consider adding parking lot/garages. Even dense areas have a few here and there. I like your inclusion of some smaller buildings too, as opposed to every single building trying to out do the other.A little more development of the surrounding area will help to further define the area (I hope you will show another picture when you have built a bit more). Aside from that, nothing really jumps out at me to improve the pic just yet.
tankmank, hey! Loved your CJing way back when over at ST and I've been keeping an eye on Toright.
Anyway, with a PhotoShopped pic it's always hard for me to separate the P-Shopping issues from the game issues.
I like the overall look a lot- It brought Abu Dhabi (sp?) to mind, as I've never been there but imagine these gleaming towers on an island of irrigation in the desert.
The layout of everything sort of has that "built all at once" almost Stalinist planned city look to it. I like the way you've used repetition to good effect. The walls at the base are nifty, too, in a way I really can't account for. It may be that they visually anchor the city to its surroundings.
I'd hate to guess what the street traffic issues are, but I presume you probably have a Class "A" subway system. A monorail might actually have been worth considering around the perimeter.
Overall, another really nice pic. Thanks for showing it to us.
David
I can't emphasis more on putting some parking / park around
My personnal tastes are not forest skyscrappers, but I think adding green parks will make it great, your choices about which skyscrappers to build are good, and I'd like to see it by night
Anyway I have another thing that is quite strange from my point of view, there is some low/medium buildings in the center of the city, which I found a bit weird, I usually see skyscrappers at centers and low/medium in the outward
Every time I enter the SC4 Picture Competition with an image from one of my cities, I hardly get any votes and I walk away with the impession that people hate my work. I would like to know what I'm doing wrong.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg362.imageshack.us%2Fimg362%2F3641%2Fbvcnnzi9.jpg&hash=d3b477c7f63d65c35e542f33c71c8b7a730b9b9f)
When I consider my vote for the picture competition, I like to see either a pic that well done artistically or is a good reflection of reality. Your pics are quite good and your selection of BATs is pretty neat. One thing I notice about this pic (in particular) is that it is very dense. Massive skyscrapers and very narrow streets would seem to make for an interesting/nightmarish commute (the 405 freeway near my house has several lanes each way and will still become a parking lot). Most large city areas that I have seen usually have some smaller buildings mixed in, or some open spaces to allow light down to the streets. I have noticed that, though a city may look dense from afar, it opens up a bit when you are in it.
In this pic, the canals, cathedral and parks look great. The wall of structures however is a bit busy for the eye. When I look at the city, there is nothing to focus on. I don't wish to influence your playing style (everyone should play the game for their own tastes, that's what makes it fun) but perhaps consider using fewer towers. Pick a few (or a group) that you like and make them the star of the show, and build a pic around them. Or consider a title that would give a reason for such a dense city. Also see my, and wouanagaine's comments on tankmank's pic above, I think they apply to your pic too in some ways.
Trust me, there is little to hate in your work, especially if you enjoy creating it. I hope this helps. If you have any further questions on my comments let me know and I would be happy to explain/expand on them. I hope to see some new pics from you in the competition soon.
Heh, lerist, my butt has gotten kicked every time I have entered the pic contest...
The one thing I note about your pic is the number of repeated buildings. One pair per pic would be "RL-valid." I count six pairs here. It's just not like that there would be that many duplicate tall towers.
The cathedral is looking for a larger plaza around it, too.
My hat's off to you, though- I have no skill at cityscapes. That's tough when you're an urban planner.
David
If I'm not mistaken, and I very well may be, I believe a lot of the duplicate skyscrapers are the Hong Kong BATs, which have multiple towers on the same lot, which may account for the duplicates. Again, there's a good chance I could be wrong about this, but I remember not downloading some of them for this reason.
As for your picture, lerist--I can only echo what Matt and David have said. What I would suggest is this: pick one skyscraper (maybe two at the most) and plop it down, then have smaller and intermediate sized buildings around it. Also, try an avenue instead of road, it will widen the roadway and might help to decrease the "dense" feeling that Matt eluded to earlier. Add in your canals and the cathedral from this picture, and I think you'd have a great picture! Now obviously, my advice won't help if you're trying to build a functioning city or anything like that, but it may help with a picture.
And don't get too down about the Picture Competition, my friend. That's a tough place to cut your teeth, considering some of the magnificent pictures that have come out of there. Not to mention, that over there, in the battle between rural vs. urban, rural will win hands-down, 95% of the time. That's not a slight against the competition or against rural pictures, I just believe that rural pictures are more appealing to the majority of folks here.
Hope this helps! Good luck!
Dustin
QuoteI just believe that rural pictures are more appealing to the majority of folks here
That, and there are some great rural items in production around here recently which helps making a good rural pic easier/more appealing.
Good point, there, Matt! I didn't think of that.
Hey lerist, don't be discouraged too much with how your entries perform in the Picture Competition, the votes are a reflection of the voters' personal taste and sometimes they may not be similar to yours. Let me reiterate the point that the others have made already about playing the game in your own terms and with your own style - there's nothing that kills the fun quicker than trying to please other people instead of yourself, especially for a game like SC.
As for the picture, I am a big fan of all the HKBATs (mainly because I'm from HK) and have been steady working myself towards building a city that can accommodate them properly. And from my experience growing up in the city, it seems a little too dense even for HK. I don't recall seeing so many high-rise estates so close together. They are usually public housing estates of 4-5 major blocks of high rises, separated from each other with walkways and parks. And then separated even further away from major roadways - discounting mass-transit such as subways and el-rail.
My suggestion would be to work out the ratio of green space versus development within your city, anyway between a 1:3 to 1:5 would help in "loosening up" the city and allow us to peek through the holes between the high-rises to see the action on the streets. I like the use of the canals here, its also an example of creating the open space needed in a city.
Good luck with your future SC4 endeavours, and never forget to play how you want to, not how you are told! ;D
Thank you so much for your thoughts, opinions and comments, they have been a pleasure to read. :thumbsup:
I will follow your suggestions during the construction of my next city to see how it will turn out...although it will feel somewhat scary to diverge from my usual "build as much and as dense as possible"-philosophy. ;)
I'm sure you'll do fine if you just remember to play the game for one person: yourself. Stepping out of your comfort zone is always a bit unnerving, but then everyone starts somewhere and without that step, there would be no growth, no learning.
I suppose I will continue a bit of the theme of photo competition entries. I tried the following in the photo comp and, if I recall, it went out in the first round or two. I'm trying to improve my beach/costal town building (I've lived in a few of them) and this is a slightly older pic, but please let me know your thoughts.
The Beachcomber:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg517.imageshack.us%2Fimg517%2F127%2Fsouthcoastaristocatps7.jpg&hash=dab93141cea17d9322cc75a04f1ff61826b87801)
The first thing that strikes me there Matt is that the retaining walls on that house in the center are awefully high. I do like how the ground stays with it until the last tile, then drops off, but change the slopes across there to make the house sit at about half it's present height above the beach.
The second thing is the clashing textures next to those paths going down. Personally when there is no way to fix something like this (easily) in the game, I have no prob with doing some photoshopping to make the transitions look better. Also, it may just be my personal taste, but I have quite the dislike for highwealth textures and substitute medium wealth grass for it where ever I can. They often come out over the top, and I think that's part of what detracts from a mostly well laid out picture here.
The house in the center does give a good focal point, and the beach looks great. Just taking care of a few more details, and a little more subdued textures I think would make it a good photo.
I agree with Chrisadams...the retaining wall is really high. It's not just that fact, though...it's more the fact that it's the only sort of straight edge on the beach. It might help to put up a seawall if you can spare the room...just a suggestion.
Also, while I don't mind the high-wealth grass textures, I do think there needs to be a bit of blending. A picture like this usually does best when every tile is covered with something, so I'd suggest perhaps filling in the entire area with grass textures or paths or something like that. And try and get the hills to ease down as smooth as possible to the beach if you decide to keep it.
If you want to do something with the picture itself, I might suggest giving it a bit of contrast to make the colors a bit more vivid. Nothing too fancy, something you can find on a lot of basic picture editors (or Photobucket), but it might add a bit of flair to it (of course, if you want to keep the picture natural, that should be perfectly fine, as well).
It's a really good picture with nice focus and just enough going on to hold interest. Just needs a bit of tender-love-'n'-care to cap it off.
I remember that Matt (threestoges) don't like to use photo editing. Matt, I saw in many of your comments that you rather appreciate "original" in-game textures. So I'd like to concentrate on these things you can improve in game.
1. It would be good to soften the terrain along paths and street. You can do it using Mayor Mode Lowering tool (the smallest size and strength).
I suppose red textures are a part of your design, they look very good for me and I think you can leave them.
2. You definitely should level the terrain under the parking in the lower right corner.
3. I agree about too high retaining wall of the building in center.
4. This building is very nice and original, but it isn't too vivid and it isn't a good focal point in your picture (and it's a good candidate for it). What to do with it? Personally I would remove BSC Parks pieces with flower beds. You can replace them by High Wealth grass pieces, but in this case you should do it around the building too. Then I would plant some ploppable trees here and there.
5. The building in the top right corner shows some retaining wall (you should level/raise the street there) and all the top right corner doesn't look good. There is too little part of this building showed. Show more or make something else in this place. You should also fill the empty tile to the left of this building, we can see texture edges there.
6. Think about trees. You use three completely different kinds of palms and they don't look good together and especially with dedicious trees along BSC paths. Palms are difficult to use. They doesn't hide anything and they need a contrasting background to look good. It would be excellent if you would find some trees harmonizing with these used on the central lot :)
7. I would suggest to make the street in the left upper corner one tile longer to don't see it's end, it looks unnatural, too SC4 :)
8. The beach is very nice, but it looks a bit empty. There are some small buildings in beach sets (maybe fast food or something?)
9 and last: I understand and appreciate your opinion about photoshopping, but the JPG picture is a bit less contrasting/saturated than we can see in the game. I think that very subtle increasing of one or both these parameters is nothing bad and unnatural.
I was often thinking I created a nice place and then I worked long and hard with all these little details. :)
Of course my advices are subjective, you can take them (and other suggestions) as a start point.
Adam
Thanks everyone for the comments. They are greatly appreciated. To be honest, I hadn't realized that wall was so high. Up until now, I had just based its relative height off the lamp posts, but looking around at the people... well let's just say I hope no one stumbles over. The palm tree thing was another thing. Way back when I first made this pic, I hadn't touched the LE or any other editing program much more than to look at it, so the palm-deciduous blending was unavoidable, but I agree that it doesn't exactly balance well. Lastly, I should probably clarify: I'm not against photoshopping. There are some absolutely stunning pics around here. Masochist has shown a number of them in his MD Condor Bay, and Adam (Ennedi) continually amazes me with his works. When I show a picture around here, I like to show what the game itself can do (mainly when it comes to the picture competition) though I have fiddled with photoshopping a few things. Next time I'm on this tile, I think I'll try a few adjustments, but just applied in general, all of your comments are great all-around advice.
Matt, this wall wouldn't look bad if you would break it visually, for example putting something small (a bit lower than the wall) at the foot of it :)
Adam
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fmain_street_preview.jpg&hash=468e3d3ff920c6cfcf3ea5f715e8e731b60fd5d7)
Maybe I should have something critiqued. What can I improve in this small town's main street?
Shot looks pretty good. The few changes I'd suggest are getting rid of the two offices in the top left, and maybe the office across from the diner, and moving the water tower to across the street from where it is now.
@Shadow Assassin: It's interesting to analyse your picture. Your technical skills are very good and it is hard to find any mistakes or imperfections in it. But two pictures can be technically very good, and people will like one of them more :)
Please remember that all advices about composition, the choice of buildings and so on will be always subjective, so take them as another point of view - and your point of view and your general vision will be always the most important!
I wouldn't place the water tower in the row of buildings. Such object can be very nice focus/orientation point, it would look better on a more open area, maybe on a small hill, or if you haven't hills in your city, maybe on a clearing between some trees/bushes? An access side road/dirt road/path would be nice too.
Maybe it would be good to replace some of older type parkings (these darker ones) by newer ones, similar to these in the front of two commercial buildings at the main street. But I'm afraid these parkings are a part of lots you used :)
What could be improved on this picture? Maybe it could have more character. Looking at it I can't see any special place which could catch my eye. It is difficult for me to be more precise, but personally I would rearrange the whole commercial area. The market looks very good here, these two commercial pavillons too. But I would think about the rest of buildings.
I'm very glad you published your picture here, this is very interesting thread. I'm going to do the same :D
Adam
Edit: And please remember you are a master, so everybody will be more demanding for you :D But it's nothing bad IMO
MMkay, my turn as well maybe, how would some of you improve this downtown? I'm aiming for a semi-sloppy look, as if the town was just beginning to get back on it's feet after a downturn or such, so mid-urban-renewal I guess. I know it's got too many bridges, but frankly, I love them to death, so I'm not sure I'd destroy any.
Also, ignore the photo-taking errors like the pause line and driving icons.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iwu.edu%2F%7Etcousins%2FKohaCJ%2FKoha-islandS.jpg&hash=a7f1471ade58650fb7551c3994883fe370764cfb)
The thing that really sticks out is the water. Maxis water really is an unnatural colour. I would suggest searching the STEX and LEX for a water Mod you really like.
And I will add some waterfront or just seawalls here
@wounagaine: The only problem with seawalls is that the edge of the island is real steep in some parts, and so I'd need some sort of highly slopable wall, as I understand that most just end somewhere about 15m or so. The left-side channel especially would be hard to reconcile walls for.
@Diggis: Yeah, I'm gonna keep looking for one that suits. A lot of the water sets look even -more- unnatural to me, though, heh. But the search continues.
@zakuten:
1. Yes, it will be hard to use waterfronts because of the high and steep riverside. Maybe everything would be easier (and look better) if you would leave some free space at the riverside. You could put some trees close to the water, it would not only look good (there is much greenery along riversides in many big cities, not everything must be covered by concrete), but you would be able to hide sharp edges of lots and roads. They are visible now and look unnatural.
I know your space is very limited and you would like to create the dense downtown. But you must choose.
2. You should make some terraforming before building anything, especially roads. All your roads have many sharp angles and they would look much better if they would be more soft. Bridge entrances shouldn't be so steep. I know it needs much work but it is worth of it :)
As for water Mod, maybe try PEG's Brigantine?
Adam
Well Ive been reading the critiscm here and I think all of its awesome. I thought I would put a picture of my rural and urban areas from my last region because Im just about to start a new region and want to know what I can do to improve these parts of my citys.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg247.imageshack.us%2Fimg247%2F5817%2Fcolognecitycentre9jan96bc0.jpg&hash=e71174883976143e15a5e63c52feb6f235f2d813)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg92.imageshack.us%2Fimg92%2F6629%2Ffangornvalley21apr04119nj9.jpg&hash=0dd037c17ede672013b578a1ff4c54c10378444e)
Thank you very much
-penguin007:
urban: I'm not sure what the overall look you are going for is, so I can't really suggest anything to improve this. You've done a good job with the rail system (no at-grade crossings) and you've added the catenaries along the shallow curves. There seems to be plenty of green space, but I don't notice any places for recreation (small parks and the like) but then again, this strikes me as a European city and I am not used to the building style, so I really can't say if that would help or not.
rural: First, in regard to the rail, consider trying to smooth out the part of the left, just after the curve. The Fangorn Forest (LoTR?) farms use fairly similar tracts of land (seems realistic). I would consider adding some support buildings though (a water tower, irrigation system, farm supply store), but that isn't necesary. The pic is a good show of the area's farmland and it succeeds in that effort. It seems a bit blurry though (photoshop effect?) and might look better if sharpened just a bit (but that is a matter of personal taste).
-zakuten: I think a slope mod would help here as well as the bridge height mod. Some of your bridges have incredibly steep slopes leading to them. A slope mod would make the area more difficult to work in due to the aparent hills, but I think it would help, and the bridge height mod (this is coming from a person who is a fan of bridges too) is a great tool for making them look more realistic. I would also suggest thinning out some of the repeated buildings. The small one with the blue pitched roof seems to take over a few areas. Take a few of them out and let some other things develop to add variety.
In regard to the seawalls, I agree with Ennedi. Though the lots are good tools to use, a natural border can look good too. More realistic than just having the buildings stop right at the water's edge.
-Shadow Assassin: Just to folllow on what has been said already, it looks good, but there isn't a part of it that really jumps out at me. The only thing that I see that could be 'wrong' is the proximity of those R$$$ buildings to the commercial area. It seems like the rich folk would like to distance themselves from the back of a commercial alleyway. Also, the style of the R$$$s sticks out a bit from the style of the rest of the town. This may be the look that you were going for, but then this is all I really noticed and could think to critique.
Good work all three of you.
-Matt
@all advising: I think I can manage to lower the slopes for the bridges on the right-hand side, but then on the left, and I tried the slope mods, it'd be impossible without raising the whole island to accomodate the avenue or destroying the bluff. My other problem with the lowering the bridge is that I actually -use- ferries, and need to keep access open. So yeah, I guess I'll have to probably do some heavy terraforming of the island, or maybe simply give that avenue with the double slopes a viaduct?
It seems that those are some of the problems planners must deal with in RL as well. I know there are a few people around here with Urban Planning or Engineering backgrounds, and they can probably attest to that. It may mean significant recaonstruction of the downtown area, but I would recommend extending the slope from the arch bridge on the lower left all the way to the intersection if possible and do the same with the next two (going counter-clockwise). That will have the two-fold effect of making the roads look better while preventing the downtown area from looking overly dense (it doesn't look like it is right now, but things may develop). Best of luck and I hope to see the results.
This is very true Matt. Planning problems are often very similar in SC4 and RL, and it is necessary to have at least general vision of the particular area before starting the development. Fortunately we can use trials and errors method in SC4 which would be impossible in real life ;D
But also in SC4 some changes are irreversible (or difficult to improve after execution without destroying a large area). It is sometimes wise to copy the region, change it's name and use it as a test area. When I started Shosaloza, I made 3 additional regions - Shosaloza 1, 2 and 3 and tested some of my ideas on them :)
Adam
Adam,
I know what you mean about changing things and taking out a large plot. I play the game with little pre-planning and will usually try to work around any situations I get myself into but there have been times where I have really carved things up. It's nice not to have to worry about Eminent Domain issues in some of these circumstances, but I try to keep it somewhat realistic too. A region copy is a good idea though (and would make a good backup).
-Matt
penguin, on the top bit I have some critiques...
The area around the railroad, what's up with it? One the trees are too dense and two there would be recreational facilities of some sort in that empty land. Cities never leave truly undeveloped areas in downtown... be careful with it though because most people overdo it.
Well, while flame's commenting on the top one, I'll take an opportunity to chime in on the bottom pic :P
It's a lovely pic of farmland, but there's not any real focus, no point of interest that makes it feel personal. The top pic has some very interesting architechtural points, such as the temple at the top(always forget what that place is called), and contrast between developed and undeveloped tracks by comparison. You don't have that in the rural shot.
Moving away from subject to just the technical things that could be improved(a little more tangible), there are a few things that strike me. The jagged field edges could be taken care of with Andreas's filler lots. More importantly however, it strikes me that the rail is way too elevated, or at least compared to any RL ones in America. I'm guessing it's that way to allow for the tunnel, but usually such lightly populated areas would have at-grade crossings anyway-they'd never spend the money to place a tunnel underneath here.
The other big point is that the trees used, other than the ones along the rail line which look fine, produce a very noticable repeating pattern. The contrasting colors wouldn't be bad if it was random, but looking where they are placed in a line, we see the light one, then the dark, then... etc. over and over, yet it doesn't look like something that would be intentional either.
Anyway, didn't mean to grill ya ;), just some thoughts
Chris
I think for the top image the dense forest, not good but you often have less options for integrating the rail line into the city another way, right? I certainly agree that it is better than a huge amount of grass.
I think one solution to this may be to move the railway onto an embankment that would take up space, and whatever room is left could be used for junky uses such as parking lots and small buildings. Perhaps an elevated freeway could run parallel? Anything more urban in nature that would fill space.
Well, time to get grilled myself :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu94%2FMedievalKnieval%2Fimg0000-8.jpg&hash=5d03fe8804f4f6d693c201bc611abe3b4aced5b3)
This is a work in progress, so the green will be filled in.
Since you say this pic isn't finished yet, I'll try to stick to the areas that are developed. Generally, the two best suggestions I can offer are to avoid having the pause border showing (either by editing it out or taking the pic with the the game moving) and to turn off the grid/menus unless there is a reason for having them there. It will help to give the pic more realism and it tends to look cleaner.
Looking at your highway setup, it seems strange to have that T-junction and the stub of highway lead to that street near the railyard. Such a setup doesn't seem like it would have enough cars to justify the expense of the interchange. Perhaps using an offramp or something along those lines and still having a road or something go down the sunken path would work, but then again, that is only a visual thing and if you like it the way it is, there is no problem keeping it the way it is. The 55 freeway in Costa Mesa, CA around here terminates into local streets (and gets bogged down with traffic around there too).
The railyard look pretty good, but the tracks on the left look a bit tight. Consider giving the tracks a larger turn radius. I know trains wouldn't be travelling too fast through there, but the turn there looks a bit tight.
So far it looks like the area is off to a good start, and I hope you post one further along in development too.
Mmkay, everyone who helped me, here's the not-quite-finished result:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi322.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn439%2FZaku_ten%2FKohatsa-Jul211301215045564.png&hash=465fc77faf8675da22967bada9e9bfb25ef61dd8)
(I'm making the changes gradually so as to be "progress" for my MD.)
Still working on the water, however I must admit, this does look far better. I can't do as much as I thought with the left-side bridge because of that cross street, which I can't cut off with the new viaduct. Thanks guys, and be sure to stop by my MD for the finished product soon. ;)
Good but you should make more really more terraforming ;)
Zakuten,
I would try to, if you do not want to use a slope-mod, level the whole island up to a specific height (thus, one flat area), this will make the development on it look cleaner and less unrealistic (the huge basements). Also, try setting up a small park around the middle of it, to keep the area look spacious. You should also try having the cross-island railroad not having intersections with roads, so perhaps use over- (or under-)passes in those cases.
Anyone interested in criticizing this picture?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg295.imageshack.us%2Fimg295%2F1673%2Fupdate20000zu8.jpg&hash=1a0f4ff424a4fe8f7abb7b8abd74639b9f6593d4)
From my MD, Casper's Capitals (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4833)
EDIT: Well, the houses have been built both inside (the right side) and on the outside (the left side) of a loop that was created for a huge RHW T-intersection (http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5145/interchange0000zb1.jpg). My main goal was to show the European-styled suburbs, but the RHW gave the picture more strength, as it would otherwise have been a bit boring in my opinion.
I don't think I have anything to really critique in this pic. As I mentioned in the pic competition, there is a sense of balance to it and I like the consistency of the housing styles. I would like to ask a question if I may, and that may improve my understanding of the pic, and that would be: what were you trying to go for when you took this pic? From the looks of it, it is designed to show the RHW (I think that's what that is) cutting between the neighborhoods. While there is nothing wrong with this, and if it was your intention to show that, then it was achieved, the thing that jumps out to me is: what is the purpose of the road in the middle? It doesn't have any visible connection with the houses on either side of it, and since the building style seems to be continuous across the pic, the road doesn't appear to serve as a dividing line (as in my experience freeways, railroad tracks, etc tend to create dividing lines in towns and a change is usually noticable when passing them). It's 1:30am where I live right now so I hope this came out coherently (I should probably get to bed soon). Basically, there is nothing 'wrong' with your pic that I can see. From a technical, in-game construction aspect there is nothing that should be 'fixed.' It's a good pic and, as I mentioned before, I would be curious to hear what you intend for the pic to convey.
I really love all this critiquing here. Here goes my first post in SC4D!
This area is a college center. The difference in buildings is supposed to be somewhat drastic.
Day:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg519.imageshack.us%2Fimg519%2F3441%2Fcollegeoj2.jpg&hash=fb0cf66430c212e5661987489171215ff4756b89)
Night:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg154.imageshack.us%2Fimg154%2F1729%2Fcollege2fz0.jpg&hash=ea789e7319d4b3b660e5fda90841bf892ea34cf1)
It does look like a college center. The only thing I don't think I like is the crazy avenue intersection. That might work in a city center but not in the middle of a college. I like the short avenue in the center which connects the two buildings. Otherwise, good job.
Quote from: caspervg on July 03, 2008, 01:03:45 AM
Anyone interested in criticizing this picture?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg295.imageshack.us%2Fimg295%2F1673%2Fupdate20000zu8.jpg&hash=1a0f4ff424a4fe8f7abb7b8abd74639b9f6593d4)
Yes.
My one issue with the picture is that white building at the bottom looks out of place. Whether it's a hospital,school,police station. There are better and smaller alternatives ;)
^^ Personally I like the building. It's a nice eye-catcher and it also makes the picture more special. :)
^^ Personally, I agree, that's a really interesting building. That's that hospital by LBT right?
Light the lamps by wielding the wind!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi220.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd138%2Fnerdly_dood%2FGalax-May30001152635393.png&hash=bc08303949813d5eec4d55babcb7da93721f703d)
Who dares to criticize?
For starters, I think those wind turbines being there surround by forest looks really unrealistic, par say becuase trees act as wind barriers and heavens to betsy those turbines would probably loose most of thier efficiency...
Other than the wind turbines being suffocated, I'd say smooth out the road. The road looks smoother on the far side of the tunnel...unless the trees are hiding something... :D
I disagree on the whole Wind Turbines thing, I think there is enough space to still get something and they are higher than the tree's I believe. Nice job.
Time to revive this thread ;)
Here are two night seaport pics. Tell me please which one do you like more and why?
Or maybe I'm on the wrong way at all?
Picture 1
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg379.imageshack.us%2Fimg379%2F4703%2Fport4v2jo9.jpg&hash=57c98abc8150a3e50afa5551c5cb8eed695604c7)
Picture 2
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg379.imageshack.us%2Fimg379%2F3916%2Fport4v3fo9.jpg&hash=e0c2378b22a48771f27299632940ce5d77ebbb90)
Adam
Quote from: Ennedi on September 09, 2008, 02:10:51 PM
Time to revive this thread ;)
Here are two night seaport pics. Tell me please which one do you like more and why?
Or maybe I'm on the wrong way at all?
Picture 1
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg122.imageshack.us%2Fimg122%2F1805%2Fport4v2de3.jpg&hash=2dc3bcd1c9fee06c46aad198cf4364268a3fcbd8)
Picture 2
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg122.imageshack.us%2Fimg122%2F6650%2Fport4v3ih3.jpg&hash=72e4225d993cbcb59c68237a3fb8e349fc6dff05)
Adam
I vote for pic 2, it seems more realistic when swapping between, probably because its darker and muggier the light cones on the land next to the boat are very bright though.
Joe
Thank you Joe!
Good point about lights :thumbsup:. Unfortunately lightcones are very bright on the unedited picture too.
In my opinion streetlights should be made in completely different way: without lighcones, but with with a bright point (lamp) and a wide light circle on the ground, much more wide than we have now and with much more soft edge. Look please at Somy's lights on my pictures. They are visible on the ship, you can see some of them also near underground LNG tanks and under red-white cranes. As you see, they haven't lightcones at all and they look very good!
After reading your comment I made the next picture. It was done very quickly and it hasn't good quality, but I tried to make something with lights. Maybe something similar would look better?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg225.imageshack.us%2Fimg225%2F7834%2Fport4nc1yi8.jpg&hash=03599b551a46a1ad41396e7eb26e3e4e2134706d)
I agree with you fully that the light cones are a bit to harsh, but knowing next to nothing about lighting (and batting in general ;D) you just taught me something :D :)
But I am going to complain and say your newfangled lighting is a little too diffuse :P
and the filters (or w/e they are, I am no good at photoshopping either) are still best on the second pic :) I think that is due to less saturation...
(big words for 1am :D)
Joe
its all good there joe and I disagree with joe about the second pic Adam as it seems to show off but to the point the lights are more brighter and now with the third one that you posted seems to be almost a realistic night pic with the lights dispersing just right...
Here is my pic i posted over at the pages but havent gotten no real feedback on it....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg211.imageshack.us%2Fimg211%2F5396%2Fdaynighter2.jpg&hash=fdc42db460733d544ce1f100dab613aeac0cf2e1)
There is only 2 real issues I have with this pic. 1, most lakes I have ever seen do not look so square. ;) And second, lakes are usally created with an inlet and outlet. Unless this is an undergound spring, it should have a small creek running into it to keep it filled, otherwise it would eventually drain out.
Other than that I think its a great concept. &apls