The "You Be the Critic" Thread

[Ennedi]

@zakuten:

1. Yes, it will be hard to use waterfronts because of the high and steep riverside. Maybe everything would be easier (and look better) if you would leave some free space at the riverside. You could put some trees close to the water, it would not only look good (there is much greenery along riversides in many big cities, not everything must be covered by concrete), but you would be able to hide sharp edges of lots and roads. They are visible now and look unnatural.
I know your space is very limited and you would like to create the dense downtown. But you must choose.
2. You should make some terraforming before building anything, especially roads. All your roads have many sharp angles and they would look much better if they would be more soft. Bridge entrances shouldn't be so steep. I know it needs much work but it is worth of it

As for water Mod, maybe try PEG's Brigantine?

Adam

[penguin007]

Well Ive been reading the critiscm here and I think all of its awesome. I thought I would put a picture of my rural and urban areas from my last region because Im just about to start a new region and want to know what I can do to improve these parts of my citys.





Thank you very much

[threestooges]

-penguin007:
urban: I'm not sure what the overall look you are going for is, so I can't really suggest anything to improve this. You've done a good job with the rail system (no at-grade crossings) and you've added the catenaries along the shallow curves. There seems to be plenty of green space, but I don't notice any places for recreation (small parks and the like) but then again, this strikes me as a European city and I am not used to the building style, so I really can't say if that would help or not.

rural: First, in regard to the rail, consider trying to smooth out the part of the left, just after the curve. The Fangorn Forest (LoTR?) farms use fairly similar tracts of land (seems realistic). I would consider adding some support buildings though (a water tower, irrigation system, farm supply store), but that isn't necesary. The pic is a good show of the area's farmland and it succeeds in that effort. It seems a bit blurry though (photoshop effect?) and might look better if sharpened just a bit (but that is a matter of personal taste).

-zakuten: I think a slope mod would help here as well as the bridge height mod. Some of your bridges have incredibly steep slopes leading to them. A slope mod would make the area more difficult to work in due to the aparent hills, but I think it would help, and the bridge height mod (this is coming from a person who is a fan of bridges too) is a great tool for making them look more realistic. I would also suggest thinning out some of the repeated buildings. The small one with the blue pitched roof seems to take over a few areas. Take a few of them out and let some other things develop to add variety.

In regard to the seawalls, I agree with Ennedi. Though the lots are good tools to use, a natural border can look good too. More realistic than just having the buildings stop right at the water's edge.


-Shadow Assassin: Just to folllow on what has been said already, it looks good, but there isn't a part of it that really jumps out at me. The only thing that I see that could be 'wrong' is the proximity of those R$$$ buildings to the commercial area. It seems like the rich folk would like to distance themselves from the back of a commercial alleyway. Also, the style of the R$$$s sticks out a bit from the style of the rest of the town. This may be the look that you were going for, but then this is all I really noticed and could think to critique.

Good work all three of you.
-Matt

[zakuten]

@all advising: I think I can manage to lower the slopes for the bridges on the right-hand side, but then on the left, and I tried the slope mods, it'd be impossible without raising the whole island to accomodate the avenue or destroying the bluff. My other problem with the lowering the bridge is that I actually -use- ferries, and need to keep access open. So yeah, I guess I'll have to probably do some heavy terraforming of the island, or maybe simply give that avenue with the double slopes a viaduct?

[threestooges]

It seems that those are some of the problems planners must deal with in RL as well. I know there are a few people around here with Urban Planning or Engineering backgrounds, and they can probably attest to that. It may mean significant recaonstruction of the downtown area, but I would recommend extending the slope from the arch bridge on the lower left all the way to the intersection if possible and do the same with the next two (going counter-clockwise). That will have the two-fold effect of making the roads look better while preventing the downtown area from looking overly dense (it doesn't look like it is right now, but things may develop). Best of luck and I hope to see the results.

[Ennedi]

This is very true Matt. Planning problems are often very similar in SC4 and RL, and it is necessary to have at least general vision of the particular area before starting the development. Fortunately we can use trials and errors method in SC4 which would be impossible in real life 

But also in SC4 some changes are irreversible (or difficult to improve after execution without destroying a large area). It is sometimes wise to copy the region, change it's name and use it as a test area. When I started Shosaloza, I made 3 additional regions - Shosaloza 1, 2 and 3 and tested some of my ideas on them 

Adam

[threestooges]

Adam,
I know what you mean about changing things and taking out a large plot. I play the game with little pre-planning and will usually try to work around any situations I get myself into but there have been times where I have really carved things up. It's nice not to have to worry about Eminent Domain issues in some of these circumstances, but I try to keep it somewhat realistic too. A region copy is a good idea though (and would make a good backup).
-Matt

[flame1396]

penguin, on the top bit I have some critiques...

The area around the railroad, what's up with it? One the trees are too dense and two there would be recreational facilities of some sort in that empty land. Cities never leave truly undeveloped areas in downtown... be careful with it though because most people overdo it.

[Chrisadams3997]

Well, while flame's commenting on the top one, I'll take an opportunity to chime in on the bottom pic

It's a lovely pic of farmland, but there's not any real focus, no point of interest that makes it feel personal.  The top pic has some very interesting architechtural points, such as the temple at the top(always forget what that place is called), and contrast between developed and undeveloped tracks by comparison.  You don't have that in the rural shot.

Moving away from subject to just the technical things that could be improved(a little more tangible), there are a few things that strike me.  The jagged field edges could be taken care of with Andreas's filler lots.  More importantly however, it strikes me that the rail is way too elevated, or at least compared to any RL ones in America.  I'm guessing it's that way to allow for the tunnel, but usually such lightly populated areas would have at-grade crossings anyway-they'd never spend the money to place a tunnel underneath here.

The other big point is that the trees used, other than the ones along the rail line which look fine, produce a very noticable repeating pattern.  The contrasting colors wouldn't be bad if it was random, but looking where they are placed in a line, we see the light one, then the dark, then... etc. over and over, yet it doesn't look like something that would be intentional either.

Anyway, didn't mean to grill ya , just some thoughts

Chris

[Zaphod]

I think for the top image the dense forest, not good but you often have less options for integrating the rail line into the city another way, right? I certainly agree that it is better than a huge amount of grass.

I think one solution to this may be to move the railway onto an embankment that would take up space, and whatever room is left could be used for junky uses such as parking lots and small buildings. Perhaps an elevated freeway could run parallel? Anything more urban in nature that would fill space.

[flame1396]

Well, time to get grilled myself



This is a work in progress, so the green will be filled in.

[threestooges]

Since you say this pic isn't finished yet, I'll try to stick to the areas that are developed. Generally, the two best suggestions I can offer are to avoid having the pause border showing (either by editing it out or taking the pic with the the game moving) and to turn off the grid/menus unless there is a reason for having them there. It will help to give the pic more realism and it tends to look cleaner.

Looking at your highway setup, it seems strange to have that T-junction and the stub of highway lead to that street near the railyard. Such a setup doesn't seem like it would have enough cars to justify the expense of the interchange. Perhaps using an offramp or something along those lines and still having a road or something go down the sunken path would work, but then again, that is only a visual thing and if you like it the way it is, there is no problem keeping it the way it is. The 55 freeway in Costa Mesa, CA around here terminates into local streets (and gets bogged down with traffic around there too).

The railyard look pretty good, but the tracks on the left look a bit tight. Consider giving the tracks a larger turn radius. I know trains wouldn't be travelling too fast through there, but the turn there looks a bit tight.

So far it looks like the area is off to a good start, and I hope you post one further along in development too.

[zakuten]

Mmkay, everyone who helped me, here's the not-quite-finished result:



(I'm making the changes gradually so as to be "progress" for my MD.)

Still working on the water, however I must admit, this does look far better. I can't do as much as I thought with the left-side bridge because of that cross street, which I can't cut off with the new viaduct. Thanks guys, and be sure to stop by my MD for the finished product soon.

[Simpson]

Good but you should make more really more terraforming 

[CasperVg]

Zakuten,
I would try to, if you do not want to use a slope-mod, level the whole island up to a specific height (thus, one flat area), this will make the development on it look cleaner and less unrealistic (the huge basements). Also, try setting up a small park around the middle of it, to keep the area look spacious. You should also try having the cross-island railroad not having intersections with roads, so perhaps use over- (or under-)passes in those cases.

Anyone interested in criticizing this picture?

From my MD, Casper's Capitals

EDIT: Well, the houses have been built both inside (the right side) and on the outside (the left side) of a loop that was created for a huge RHW T-intersection. My main goal was to show the European-styled suburbs, but the RHW gave the picture more strength, as it would otherwise have been a bit boring in my opinion.

[threestooges]

I don't think I have anything to really critique in this pic. As I mentioned in the pic competition, there is a sense of balance to it and I like the consistency of the housing styles. I would like to ask a question if I may, and that may improve my understanding of the pic, and that would be: what were you trying to go for when you took this pic? From the looks of it, it is designed to show the RHW (I think that's what that is) cutting between the neighborhoods. While there is nothing wrong with this, and if it was your intention to show that, then it was achieved, the thing that jumps out to me is: what is the purpose of the road in the middle? It doesn't have any visible connection with the houses on either side of it, and since the building style seems to be continuous across the pic, the road doesn't appear to serve as a dividing line (as in my experience freeways, railroad tracks, etc tend to create dividing lines in towns and a change is usually noticable when passing them). It's 1:30am where I live right now so I hope this came out coherently (I should probably get to bed soon). Basically, there is nothing 'wrong' with your pic that I can see. From a technical, in-game construction aspect there is nothing that should be 'fixed.' It's a good pic and, as I mentioned before, I would be curious to hear what you intend for the pic to convey.

[Russ93Plyr]

I really love all this critiquing here. Here goes my first post in SC4D!

This area is a college center. The difference in buildings is supposed to be somewhat drastic.

Day:


Night:

[EDGE4194]

It does look like a college center. The only thing I don't think I like is the crazy avenue intersection. That might work in a city center but not in the middle of a college. I like the short avenue in the center which connects the two buildings. Otherwise, good job.

[NASCAR_Guy]

Anyone interested in criticizing this picture?

Yes.




My one issue with the picture is that white building at the bottom looks out of place. Whether it's a hospital,school,police station. There are better and smaller alternatives

[tag_one]

^^ Personally I like the building. It's a nice eye-catcher and it also makes the picture more special.