Three Rivers Region

[Pozzessed]

I never datpack any mods as I am guilty of swapping in and out terrain/tree/rock mods, looking for just the 'right' effect, knowing that there can be only one of each which is why I exchanged the Missourri breaks with your mossy limestone.  However, I put the Missouri breaks back in my .. wait for it! .. rock mod folder (surprise  ) and renamed your file as zzz-3RR_Mossy_Limestone_Rock_Mod.dat and put it in the same folder.  It works a treat now .. very interesting variations at different levels .. thank you.

[Ennedi]

Pozessed,

If you want to help with the little experiment, please try also another thing:

- I attached slightly modified David's mod (the same textures!) to this message. Download it, unpack and replace the Missouri Breaks Rock Mod by David's one (ie. remove Missouri Breaks Rock Mod and put David's one exactly in the same place in the terrain mod folder).
- Try to open the city and then inform us if the game still crashes.

I will explain what I guess (and if I'm right) after your answer. It can be interesting.

Adam

[dedgren]

I've been on a very boring teleconference and pushing another STR piece through the PathCreator.



I'll be watching what's up, Adam (Ennedi), with interest.

Our good friend Haljackey let me know that 3RR here at SC4D now has passed City of Edmonton, one of the all-time great CJs, in page views.  Its nice to be in such fine company.

Off to the office.

Later.


David

184527

[Pozzessed]

Ennedi  Adam .. I just did as you asked. I removed both the Missouri breaks .dat and MY modified version of Davids mossy limestone .dat and put YOUR revised version in the folder. I'm sorry to report that the same thing happens .. it loads the region view fine, opens the city view and the moment when it would normally open the city the game crashes completely out, not just to desktop but SC4 just shuts down with no error messages.

[Ennedi]

First of all - David, if I make too much mess in 3RR - sorry! But you know my nature a bit, when I see a problem my first reaction is to solve it at once  and I'm a bit impatient sometimes 
However, 3RR is so special place and I understand you have nothing against your readers' own activity - and my main intention is to learn new things together with you and our friends. So please forgive me, maybe my information will be useful for you too 

Now to the theme:
1. What did I modify in David's rock mod and why?
After opening any rock mod we will see that it consists of five FSH files, these are rock textures for five zooms. Their IDs are 00000044, 00000144, 00000244, 00000344 and 00000444. Last two digits in each ID are the texture number, for rock texture it is 44. The rock mod includes also the sixth file: DIR (directory) file.
When I opened David's rock mod in the Reader, I saw five FSH files, but I didn't see the DIR. I was curious if it can affect the mod function. I also wanted to check why it doesn't appear in David's mod.
So I extracted FSH files from the dat and went through all way needed to create the new mod: I converted them into PNG, back into FSH (without PNG modifications - it was not the goal ) and inserted FSH files into dat. And I found the reason: When David inserted FSH into dat, he used "Insert File" command. The DIR file is not created in this case. I used the second available option - "Insert and Compress File" and I get the DIR.
FSH files in rock mods (and other mods too)are always compressed, so I suppose we should Insert and Compress.

But... both versions (David's original and my modified one) work perfectly in my cities!  So I have two conclusions:
  a) It was not the reason of Roz (Pozzessed) CTD
  b) It seems we should ask somebody more experienced (Tage?... Andreas?... ) why the DIR file is important and if the lack of it can cause any problem.

2. Roz, I repeated your actions with rock mods.

First I installed the Columbus Terrain Mod (Standard version) in my test Plugins folder. I changed it's name adding "zzz" at it's beginning - I do it usually because some other mods (for example Gizmo Water Flora) can affect the terrain mod. But it is connected with terrain parameters and it shouldn't have any influence on rock and other textures.

The Columbus Terrain Mod folder looks as below:



The first file in this folder (CP_ColumbusBeachCliff.dat) includes texture 39 (beach), texture 14 (as I remember it's a texture appearing under water next to the seaside) and texture 44 (rock). This is in fact the rock mod and the beach mod in one file.



Newer Cycledogg's terrain mods have rock and beach textures in separate files, for example "CP_B_MissouriBreaksBeach_Optional",  "CP_C_MissouriBreaksCliff_Optional_EquivalentToPEGRockMod".
The second file (CP_ColumbusPlayTerrainParameters...) is the main terrain mod file. It's central part is the terrain texture map table which tells us which textures will appear in which places on our map.
If any texture is present in the texture map table, we must have this texture in SC4 files (simcity1.dat, simcity2.dat) or in our Plugins folder as a dependency. If we haven't this texture, we will experience a CTD. This is the only reason of CTD caused by the terrain mod. If we have all textures but the game is crashing, we should look for the problem in another place.
The third and fourth file in the Columbus Terrain Mod folder are just texture sources ie. dependency files. The file called "Rock textures" doesn't include texture 44 for steep slopes but rocky textures (stones, stones+grass...) appearing on higher elevations and mixed up with grassy textures.

We don't need to use any terrain mod. The game itself has all textures for all types of terrain including cliffs (texture 44) and beaches (texture 39). If we install the terrain mod, game textures will be overwritten by terrain mod textures according to the order given in the terrain texture map table.
(Of course the custom terrain mod can use also ingame textures, or textures from other terrain mods. Everything depends on the texture map table content).

We could remove the "CP_ColumbusBeachCliff" from Plugins and we would still enjoy Columbus terrain textures, but we will see Maxis rock and Maxis beach.

Now, if we want to use another rock mod, we have two options:
  a) We can remove "CP_ColumbusBeachCliff" and we can put new rock mod everywhere in Plugins. It will always overwrite Maxis texture 44. (But if we don't want to see Maxis beach, we should look for a nice custom beach mod  )
  b) We can leave CP_ColumbusBeachCliff, but in this case we must place the new rock mod after this file. If not, we will see Columbus rock texture.
In order to do it you can follow David's advice ie. create a "zzz" folder and put the rock mod into it. Or you can change the rock mod file name adding zzz at it's beginning and put it into th terrain mod folder. It is a good solution too, because you have all terrain connected files in the same folder.
If you prefer the option "a", I would also suggest to put the rock mod into the terrain mod folder.

Edit: I removed a part of text which was written twice 

Now, if we want to use another rock mod, we have two options:
  a) We can remove "CP_ColumbusBeachCliff" and we can put new rock mod everywhere in Plugins. It will always overwrite Maxis texture 44. (But if we don't want to see Maxis beach, we should look for a nice custom beach mod  )
  b) We can leave CP_ColumbusBeachCliff, but in this case we must place the new rock mod after this file. If not, we will see Columbus rock texture.
In order to do it you can follow David's advice ie. create a "zzz" folder and put the rock mod into it. Or you can change the rock mod file name adding zzz at it's beginning and put it into th terrain mod folder. It is a good solution too, because you have all terrain connected files in the same folder.
If you prefer the option "a", I would also suggest to put the rock mod into the terrain mod folder.

But the rock mod shouldn't cause a CTD in any case and in any position in Plugins.

I checked all possible variants of placing the rock mod:

- The well known rock mod - JRN_PEG_Limestone. After putting it into terrain mod folder it will be loaded after the CP_ColumbusBeachCliff" (the game reads files of the same level in the alphabetical order). The result: I saw Limestone rock.



- Then I changed the JRN_PEG_Limestone name adding "3RR" at it's beginning  Now it will be loaded before the ColumbusBeachCliff. The result: I saw Columbus rock.



Now David's mod. Because of it's name (begins from 3) it is loaded before ColumbusBeachCliff. The result: I see Columbus rock.



Then I changed it's name to "MossyLimestone" in order to load it after ColumbusBeachCliff. The result: I saw David's rock.



But I didn't experience a CTD in any case 

So I didn't solve your problem, Roz. In my cities everything works as I described (and you can believe me, I made much more experiments with various terrain modifications). What to do now?
Of course you can follow David's advice if it works properly for you. But we still don't know what causes a CTD and it would be good for all of us if we would find the source. And we would learn something 

If I would look for it, I should see your terrain mod folder and other folders where you have files connected with the terrain.

Adam

[sithlrd98]

Glad your doing better David! That STR is looking great!

I just want to add my input about the rock mod ...I also have had no problems with the mod (I am using the version uploaded on the 3RREX) , and of course like Adam , the first thing I did was remove the 3RR and put zzz . I  am using the CPT_MeadowshireTerrainMod ,however I don't have the rock mod in the same folder (probably doesn't matter). I also think that there is something else that is causing the CTD , but who am I?


I really like it!

Jayson

[dedgren]

Slowly but surely...



* * *

I have been really busy yesterday and today, but took the time early this morning to render our Mossy Limestone rock mod in Gray Granite.





I'll post it on the 3RREX [linkie] after court this afternoon for anyone who would like to use it.

Later.


David

185223

[deathtopumpkins]

Ooh... I like that granite rock mod...  I think I've finally found the one I'll download.

Oh, and, any progress on the passing-zone road puzzle-pieces? 

[thundercrack83]

Wonderful stuff here, David!

I love the new grey granite, too! It looks simply amazing, my friend!

Hope all goes well in Court!

Dustin

[Pat]

David a lot of stunning stuff in those pics there I just dont know what to say!!!! 

[Ennedi]

Thank you David for the new rock mod! I was sure you wasn't going to end up with the only one...

I hope you feel better, please take care about yourself 

This train looks really promisive!

Adam 

[metarvo]

Impressive as always, David!  This is what 3RR is good for. 

[Haljackey]

Wow, impressive pictures David!  STR and FAR have come a long way!

Best,
-Haljackey

[sim-al2]

Okay, I'm not trying to freak people out, but how is it possible for a tree controller to change it's selection of trees without leaving the game? I.e. I opened a city in my new M.D. region, planted some trees, exited out, came back a while later (computer on standby), and reopened the same tile to build a railline.

When I finished building the line, I pulled out the god mod tree planter to fix some gaps in the forest, and instead of a hefty selection of c.p. conifers, only sub-alpine, Maxis default oaks and (shiver) shrubs were planted, along with a random few other types (no redwoods, which are my favorite).

I went to a neighboring tile to test out a theory, and once again most of the trees were Maxis (weirdly, I zoomed out and large forests of the normal tree controller selection appeared on flat ground, but Maxis in some areas ) It doesn't look too bad in the regional view, but the continuity is ruined because the Maxis pines that are planted on top of the mountains won't appear.

I only posted here because terrain elements are being involved. If this is too off subject, I will gladly move it.

P.s. I use the c.p. No. 7(not the a's) tree controller avaliable at the STEX.

[threestooges]

Depending on the terrain mod you use that could explain it. Some terrain mods cause the game to plant certain trees in certain areas and elevations. If you have altered or adjusted your terrain mod recently this could account for it.

[Geronimo]

Lots of great work you put in lately!
The new "edition" of your rock mod is just great, the mossy one too but this just hit the spot! 

..train roll on, on down the line...   

Take care!

[bat]

These pictures are really good there! Nice work there, David!

[Andreas]

Okay, I'm not trying to freak people out, but how is it possible for a tree controller to change it's selection of trees without leaving the game? I.e. I opened a city in my new M.D. region, planted some trees, exited out, came back a while later (computer on standby), and reopened the same tile to build a railline.

When I finished building the line, I pulled out the god mod tree planter to fix some gaps in the forest, and instead of a hefty selection of c.p. conifers, only sub-alpine, Maxis default oaks and (shiver) shrubs were planted, along with a random few other types (no redwoods, which are my favorite).

I went to a neighboring tile to test out a theory, and once again most of the trees were Maxis (weirdly, I zoomed out and large forests of the normal tree controller selection appeared on flat ground, but Maxis in some areas ) It doesn't look too bad in the regional view, but the continuity is ruined because the Maxis pines that are planted on top of the mountains won't appear.

I only posted here because terrain elements are being involved. If this is too off subject, I will gladly move it.

P.s. I use the c.p. No. 7(not the a's) tree controller avaliable at the STEX.

This is probably a bug in the game. I noticed the same behavior now and then, and it seems that it is triggered by minimizing the game to the taskbar and then return later. It appears you did the same to be able to set the computer to standby. The only way to fix the issue is to exit and restart the game again.

[mjj55409]

I just wanted to say that I've been spending quite a bit of time over the last week or so going through 3RR. And yes, you've inspired to drop my long standing lurker status and post. I may even work up enough gumption to start a MD.

But great job here. Brilliant work.

Cheers,
Michael

[sim-al2]

This is probably a bug in the game. I noticed the same behavior now and then, and it seems that it is triggered by minimizing the game to the taskbar and then return later. It appears you did the same to be able to set the computer to standby. The only way to fix the issue is to exit and restart the game again.

That seems to be the case. When I tried minimizing and then planting the trees, the same bahavior resulted. I'm wondering what could even cause that.

I really like the rock mods David (dedgren) has made so far. I may try one of them when I get the chance.