JB School Packs - Because school shouldn't be boring!

[un1]

Amazing work here JBSimio! 
Maybe I will relot those in the future.

-un1

[allan_kuan1992]

looking good =)

- Allan Kuan

[cammo2003]

It's fascinating how different schools are. Campus style is pretty much how it's done here in Australia, and in most cases (at least here in NSW) Primary schools (Years K-6) and High Schools (Years 7-12) are kept separate (though there are exceptions).

In general, high schools are considerably larger, with several primary schools around the area for each high school in an area. Sorry about flooding the forum with these pictures, but I thought some folks might be interested to see how schools are here.

My Primary School:


All images hosted at ImageShack.

The one above is my primary school. It wasn't exactly huge. I seem to recall it handled about 500 students, which sounds about right for the number of buildings (the one to the bottom left on this picture had two floors.

I've coloured the outlines here:
Hot Pink: School hall and Admin building. The white thing to the left of this was a shade cover for the assembly area).
Brown: Senior Primary classrooms (Years 3-6).
Orange: Junior Primary classrooms (Years K-2). As I recall, the block next to the tan ringed building were set aside for Kindergarten (Year K).
Tan: Canteen
Blue: Toilets
Green: Equipment Stores (I think)
Yellow: Library

The school had (and probably still doesn't, it's not common in primary schools) no gym. PE was generally done outside (which I hated when it rained in particular for obvious reasons).

My High School:


All images hosted at ImageShack.

I've also labeled various areas (as I remember my high school much more clearly, although I see they finally built the new Library they'd been planning to).

Hot Pink: Various facilities. (Exposed: Locker area, Canteen, toilets. Lower level: 1xx rooms Level 1: 2xx rooms Level 2: 3xx rooms. The Library used to be on the top level. This is probably now classrooms.)
Orange: Maths block. Numbered in the 4xx range. About 10 rooms in total.
Yellow: DT (Design Technology - woodwork, metalwork, IT - the new building appears to have two floors, so IT has probably been moved). Classroom range numbers: 5xx range
Brown (southern part: Dance Studio, New Library, possibly IT). Probably has been assigned the 6xx range of numbers.
Blue: Auditorium (was always far too small for the size of the school).

In addition I've labeled some of the outdoor areas:

1: Main Quadrangle. What looks like a green roof for a building is actually just a shade cover. It used to be material but the cover actually flew off, with one of the supports breaking in the process (!) one year while I was there. Needless to say everyone was amazed by this.
2: Senior Quad: Only year 11 and 12 (Preliminary and HSC students) were granted access to this area. Although we went into this area various times before year 11 during music classes (which were held in the rooms near the door to this area)... 
3: Basketball courts.
4: Tennis Courts.
5: Cricket Pitch and oval. This is actually used on weekends for local clubs.
6: Soccer/Rugby League/Union pitch
7: Hockey field.

You'll note there's a small road to the right of the hockey field. That's a bus bay and was used to get folks to sport (and probably still is).

And yes - that IS the local megamall to the lower right. half the school ended up here at lunch even though it wasn't allowed (the vast majority of teachers turned a blind eye, lol).

EDIT: finalised post. Sorry for the gargantuan post.

[Andreas]

EDIT: finalised post. Sorry for the gargantuan post.

No need to be sorry; this is very interesting, actually - and it could help us in building more realistic school campuses in SC4.

2: Senior Quad: Only year 11 and 12 (Preliminary and HSC students) were granted access to this area. Although we went into this area various times before year 11 during music classes (which were held in the rooms near the door to this area)... 

LOL, we had that too in the Gymnasium. The dark square that is surrounded by several building wings was used by the seniors as smoking area. I guess smoking at school isn't allowed anymore these days, though.

In case it might interest you, said wings around the square held the specialized rooms for science and arts, the three main wings (with one more floor) held the regular classrooms, and the annex on the left includes the library, auditorium and music (combined). SimGoober's large high school (the one with the dark red brick and the white window frames) is actually using the design of this school.

[Jack_wilds]

Hello JBSimio, Jack wilds here...

I am liking the progress and the graphic,  also did you consider a mascot graphic/name instead? will there be a mascot for there sport team?  will it be represented some place?  for instance my grade/high school are known as the 'blackhawks' with a screaming blackhawk swooping in on the prey.

Also  I am having an issue with flags on your lots and jasoncw lots,  I have peg's flag mod but all the flags in my cities are 'peg opps'ed' out?  what the issue you think? is thee an other dependency I'm missing? 

have blessed Christmas

Jack

[JBSimio]

Pat:  Thanks!  The more I looked at it, the more I agree with you... and stuck with the paint scheme that matches the brick color on that logo back there.

Un1:  Thanks!  By all means... lot away! 

Allan_kuan:  Thank you!

Cammo:  Thank you very much for that post... I really enjoyed looking at all of that!  I guess I just never realized that things were quite that different in other countries.  It looks like I may have to start gathering some ideas for Volume Six already! 

Andreas:  Very interesting, indeed... I feel a whole new set coming on already. 

Jack:  Thanks!  Actually, the graphic is a mascot name... it says "Go Tigers."  The lines are meant to look as if the tiger took a swipe at the building.  Maybe not the best... but then again, neither are my photoshopping skills.    Concerning the OFMN mod... I do remember that there is a dependency to Peg's mod listed in his download.  I believe the mod requires the "Day of Peace" pack from the official site or something like that.  Check the readme that came with Peg's files for the exact name... but I know there is something like that required.  I hope that helps!  Thank you for the Christmas wishes... I hope you also have a wonderful one!

Well... I got a little sidetracked this month.  Things have been extremely hectic, both in the land of Covington and in the land of Occidental, CA.    I really haven't had a whole lot of BAT time at all lately.  The time I do have has been going towards trying to wrap up some of the apartment complexes that I started so long ago.  Anyway... all this is just my long and rambling way of saying that I don't have anything new to show at the moment.

That being said, I am exporting John Novak on my desktop as we speak and Westwood Elementary is ready to lot as well.  That means that all five schools for Volume Four will be in their final model files by the end of tonight.  I'm planning to have a little bit more time in the next couple of weeks to work with the lots and modding... I may even start lotting a little bit on the plane tomorrow.  Either way, Volume Four is looking like a January release if all goes well.  Just thought a little progress report was in order...

Talk to you soon!
JB

[JBSimio]

Well... I sat on planes and in airports for pretty much the entire day yesterday.  I can't begin to explain how much fun that was!  Why do people have to get so worked up and agitated all the time?  It's a week before Christmas... you know the airport is going to be busy... stop whining about the lines and smile for cryin out loud.    I couldn't decide if I wanted to smack some of these ignorant people or give them a hug and tell them it would be alright...    Anyway... annoying people or not, I did manage to make it into Chicago and then Michigan before all the snow arrived, so all is good.  During all the sitting around (and in between the moments of laughing at other people), I managed to get a little bit of lotting done and a fair bit of modding finished.  Here are some of the latest pictures...

Helen Krump Elementary - added a sign and flag (OFMN mod... the flag can be the country of your choice as always), changed the driveway slightly, and added a little wear around the back door.  I just need to go back and center the flag better and this will be completely finished.





Eisenhower Elementary - added a sign and flag (same as above... also still needs to be centered), removed the fence and expanded the play area in back, need to make a final decision about adding a back door leading directly to the play ground or not.   





Westwood Elementary - this is the first pass at the lot (which is 5x4 by the way).  I'm mostly happy with it, although I'm still considering wrapping the parking around the right side to connect with the bus drop off area.  I also need to make a sign for this one... but there probably won't be a flag.





Roth Elementary doesn't look any different, so there are no new pictures of that.  John Novak Memorial School still needs to be lotted and I may have an update on that later.

Any thoughts or suggestions for these?
JB

[paroch]

They are looking real good there Jon.

I think the trouble with lots is that you can't please all the people all the time.  For peeps who like to just plop the school lot and move on then having a fence all the way round the grounds makes sense.  But you know me...... I like to personalise it a little and generally I will add some green space around the school, be it a footie pitch, a running track, tennis or maybe just a large field with a path.  For that you don't really want a fence around the grounds.  Not sure what the compromise is though Jon!!

And the other thing is car parking.  Helen Krump and Eisenhower have front entrance to the car park (sorry, can't bring myself to use the term parking lot!!!) which you know will always work.  Westwood however, has parking to the side - which is great becasue it adds some variety - but what if it's plopped in amongst housing and the cark park entrance aligns with a back garden of a house?  Personally I'd plop the SFBT park paths up to it so it has access - but it just shows the problem again of how to please all the people all the time.

In reality Jon they are three fantastic lots that do great justice to the buildings you've created.  They'd all sit proudly in West End (and will do!) so I'd say you've got them cracked.  My personal favourite is Eisenhower, hard to pinpoint why exactly - maybe it's that it has the balance right with the number of props - not so few it looks barren and not so many it looks crowded.

All the best mate,

Paul

[bwatterud]

need to make a final decision about adding a back door leading directly to the play ground or not.  

I'd suggest doing it, because otherwise it looks like kids would have to go either through the parking lot, or the street to get there.  I'd also extend the fence around the back of the school, at least to the end of the concrete part of the play area. 
I'm also for the idea of wrapping the parking around the right side of Westwood Elementary, because that would make the entrance be on the same side as the bus drop off, and make it look better visually when plopped on a corner.  As it is now, it would look a little odd if plopped with only two sides to the street (no matter what, you'd have at least one side that looks like it should have street access, but doesn't) so you're kind of limited to plopping it the way you have it placed now.
The Helen Krump lot is, as they say, a keeper.  It could use maybe a couple more cars in the lot, but otherwise it looks great. 

EDIT:
Just something to consider.  Something about John Novak Elementary just speaks "high school" to me.  I think it might be the "go tigers" mural but, to me at least, it definitely looks more like a high school than an elementary school. 

[JBSimio]

Paul:  Thanks!  I'm well aware that pleasing everyone would mean making about 18 lot versions for each school... thankfully more and more people are becoming comfortable enough with the LE to do that for themselves!    I ended up reconfiguring the driveways and parking areas (does that phrase work for you?) on Westwood, as well as a few other small changes.  I'm really pleased with how Eisenhower has turned out as well... which kind of surprised me, considering that I originally considered it the "throw away" of the five.

Bwatterud:  Thank you!  I probably will add a back door to Eisenhower... simply because it's been mentioned often enough and there really is no other good alternative.  I understand what you're saying about Westwood, although one could easily argue that nearly every lot I've seen has something to "ignore" when it comes to placement.  There's always a driveway or parking lot or path that ends up leading to nowhere for somebody.  There's plenty of cars in all the lots, it just depends on the time of day and the randomness of the game.  John Novac will remain an Elementary School.  Helen Krump and Roth both have a number of features that could scream high school as well depending on your point of view... but then I wouldn't have anything to make for Volume Five...

Alright... I made a few changes to Westwood.  Added some fencing but chose something with gates that open and close in the back in case you want to add a sports field or something later.  I also added the sign, bike racks, and changed the driveways around.  Unless there is something horribly wrong, I'm considering this one finished.





I've also gotten far enough with John Novac Memorial to consider this a decent first draft.  For the most part, I'm fairly happy with it... but there are still a few things to change and much is still open to suggestion here.





My big areas of question at this point are the courtyard area with the tables... and then just the various groups of people milling around.  Both of these things seem to add to that high school look, despite that fact that it isn't going to become one.  I'm just stuggling to find different "child" like props while avoiding repetition.  I'm finding that there just aren't that many different playground type things out there unless I just haven't looked in the right places.

Anyway... that's about it for now!
JB

[Jack_wilds]

Hello JBSimio, Jack wilds here...

It all looks good I am impressed with the Westwood and Roth elementary, I like how they sit on the lot.  

I think a door on Eisenhower would be in order making more sense to the over all flow of the lot.  Concerning wrap around bus access to the parking... have one wrap around for a corner lot and the other to remain as is.  

As for the thought from 'bwatterud' that John Novak feels more like a high school... make an elementary version and a High School version with minor differences, so as to, not take too much more time to complete the pack.  Go Tigers!  

Question, what do you use for a scale, measure, what is is the sliding rule of scale for the game -is there one?.  It appears to me that its all over the board as far as all the bats are.  In one of the packs a high school -Schultz I think, that is done to act as a in city High and it looks smaller scale wise compared to the other schools in the pack.  Is changing a bat scale set on a model or is it a simple thing to change?... just wondering.. I have created numerous architectural- presentation models.

As for the airport observations... its so easy to get all wrapped in one self when all things SEEM to be going out whack, when its out of ones control anyway, so as you did -take in stride, get home in good frame of mind.  Be very careful who you chose to comfort-encourage with a hug -ask first or you'll be grumbly over something else.

A blessed and heart felt Christmas

Jack

[tag_one]

Wonderful lots Jon. Personally I'm not fond of the maxis trees, but as there are some replacement mods you won't here me complain 

[paroch]

Hello Jon,

You're making some swift and great progress here.  The "new" Westwood is spot on - the differences are quite subtle but I think they make a hell of a difference and I'd say that one is surely complete now.

As for Novac - I can understand why people are thinking it's a High School.  It just has quite a size to it and also it looks just a bit more "intimidating".  Not sure if that's the right word - but I just picture a 6 year old kid strolling into that friendly looking Westwood much more comfortably than the more formal entrance to Novac.  But hey, civic design committees come up with all sorts of ideas and there is no doubting that Novac is a beautiful building (architecturally I think it's the best of the pack) and maybe it would work best as an Elementary serving a large high density residential area.

I know what you mean about the seating area outside - again it has a more "formal" feel to it and I'm not sure I can picture the younger kids using it.  At the junior (elementary) school my kids went to they had a small gardening area that the kids looked after - maybe some floer/vegetable beds on that patio could work???  As for playground props - in the BSC Park Set there is a selection that fit both the 1x1 and 1x2 playground lots.  Maybe some of those would work???

You know that there is the same issue with the "parking area" entrance - but as you correctly pointed out, ya cannae please all the people all of the time!!

And one side question.  If I wanted to relot a school, what's the best way of doing it and not scre up the "education properties" of the lot?  In the past I have done this with Maxis schools and end up with a school where you never get more than 5 or 6 students attending.

Cheers Jon, all the best,

Paul

[allan_kuan1992]

well... technically you could make this a K-12 school for rural or suburban places that need education but don't have the demand to build seperate schools.

- Allan Kuan

[Pat]

Jon looking good here and speaking of repetition hmmm??? Well I know SG has playground equipment or there is that old saying if you cant find it, make it.. There is that possibly maybe?

[cammo2003]

You know, Westwood could just as easily pass for a community centre, some sort of performance space (with the second level area being audio and lighting control) or even a museum. Am I the only one to see that?

For the record I do actually like that about it, given that it is common for parts of schools to be retasked on weekends or at night.

Novac's looking great. Personally I'll probably mod it into a high school as well, though (with the lot made larger and the playground replaced with a sporting field of some description (with a small lot expansion a soccer field would fit).

[FrankU]

Beautiful BATs and LOTs!
I'll use them right after you have released them.
I also use your former packs excessively. I edited the values though, so that I can use smaller amounts of schools. I hope I don't insult you by that?
I am just too lazy to place a school every 20 tiles and manage their funding all the time, so I gave the elementary schools a radius of about the secondary school etc...

[JBSimio]

Jack wilds:  Thank you for all your input!  I did in fact add a rear door to Eisenhower Elementary.  I stuck with the latest lot versions on Westwood and John Novac.  Volume Four is all elementary schools... so it didn't take much more to complete the pack (more on that in a minute)    As far as scale goes... in general, you're absolutely right about it being all over the board.  I've had that discussion numerous times, really.  Maxis made residential scale much smaller than commercial scale and larger structures are also much smaller than what would be realistic.  Specifically to my school packs, I've tried to keep the scale within some general guidelines that carry across all of them.  Schultz High School is indeed a smaller high school despite having an urban feel to it, but from a scaling standpoint I used the same measurements in that one that I did in the others.  (It was also based on a middle school which is part of why it's a smaller building overall).  Changing the scale is easy to do while still making the model, but once it has been exported to a game file it is much more difficult.

Tag_one:  Thank you!  I'm no longer very fond of Maxis trees either, but I kept using them just for the sake of a little continuity.    I'm a big fan of the tree replacement mods myself!

Paul:  Thanks!  I ended up keeping Novac the way it was.  I'll definitely look into some of the park sets for additional props in the future though.  I do really like how it came out and I picture it as one of those large suburban schools that pulls students from a pretty large area.  We discussed the relotting comment a bit yesterday, so I won't go into that again here.  I will mention, because of your low attendance, that there is a "bug" in the game that may be playing a role.  It seems that placing two elementary schools (or high schools) next door to each other creates some issues where everyone will go to one school and ignore the other.  You can place a high school next to an elementary... but apparently not two of the same type all that close together.  (This doesn't seem to apply to universities either by the way)

Allan_kuan:  The more I thought about it, the more the idea grew on me... so there are now two versions of Novac.  One is a standard elementary school and one is a consolidated K-12 version.  Thanks!

Pat:  Thank you, my friend!  Yes... I could always make some more playground equipment too, I suppose.  Because my list just really isn't long enough yet...

Cammo:  Thanks!  I remember adding a sports area to Central High School.  I debated between a baseball diamond and tennis courts for quite some time before deciding on tennis courts.  To be honest, I've always sort of regretted doing that.  Looking back, it strikes me as a bit limiting in the end and I've tried to avoid doing that ever since.  I'd much rather leave the sports fields off and let you all decide what you want to place nearby.

FrankU:  Thank you!  I don't mind your editing the coverage radius at all.  I always thought the Maxis standard was too small anyway.  I did make mine slightly larger, but I didn't want to get too carried away. 

Well... quite a bit has happened here in the last week or so.  School Pack - Volume Four is officially finished and being tested as we speak!      It doesn't look like we'll make it in time for a New Year's release, but it shouldn't be very far off at all.  Maybe a week or two.

In the meantime, some of you may have noticed that I uploaded BSC MEGA Pack_JBSimio_Vol03 recently.  Much like my other recent prop packs, this one fixes a few (and the final remaining) glitches I made in uploading some of my earlier stuff.  This pack consolidates some smaller prop files that were included in School Packs - Volumes One thru Three... and it contains some new material for the future.  Because it does change some dependencies, I've also updated the first three school packs.  You may want to check those to confirm that you still have the right props after updating with this new prop pack.  You shouldn't really need to download the old packs again, but the readmes have been updated if you do.  If not, just check the Lex Details screen for each pack and the new dependency list is right there as well.

We'll be moving on to the high schools of Volume Five in the not too distant future, so stay tuned here for more.  Oh, and don't expect this to be ending anytime soon... I'm well into Volume Seven with plans already! 

JB

[paroch]

Great stuff Jon - It's nice to know that all your hard work has reached an "almost" finish point with volume four - good luck with the testing and I hope it does not uncover any nasties!!

Rest assured I'll be here watching volume five develop and seeing as you have volume seven ideas already flowing I guess I'll need to think of some things for volume eight 

Paul

[Pat]

LoL Jon sorry to put the monkeys to work lol.... that wasnt my intentions at all