Three Rivers Region

[Connor]

That mountain road is absolutely amazing. The road textures look really great, and i'm definitely going to be downloading them later. Excellent stuff as always.

[allan_kuan1992]

That oddity is hard to avoid due to how the intersection is dragged. The intersection is in fact only one diagonal tile (the right half of the circled area) and the tiles around that intersection tile are not considered intersections and not programmed to be modified by nearby ones so they won't be changed to look different from the normal diagonal texture. I am not sure if we can use an approach similar to the old turning lanes plugin to change the textures using RULs but who knows...?

The aforementioned oddity can also create some interesting situations... take for example the intersection just below the circled one. It is possible for you to split dragging the road into two sections... one on one half of a perpendicular diagonal road and the other on the opposide half. If you dragged these two diagonal roads to touch the opposite sides of the perpendicular diagonal road (but not completely through to the other side) you may end up with two T-intersections "side-by-side" with only two traffic lights and some awkward pathing rather than the X-intersection that occurs if you drag the two perpendicular diagonal roads completely through each other.

- Allan Kuan

[sithlrd98]

Just to second what Allan was saying , from what I understand , Maxis messed up on a lot of things when creating the intersection rul entries. (They also created a lot of very un-real rail intersections/textures) I am wondering why that particular intersection looks so odd...the only thing I can think of is that maybe that texture should not have the road wear on it?

Jayson

[ldvger]

I hate to go OT with all this great feedback on the new road textures pouring in, but I am wondering if anyone else is having toruble with Imageshack over the past day or so.  Everytime I try to go to the site, I get a "website not found" error message telling me the site is either unavailable or timed out while the attempting to load it.

Anyone else having these problems?  All other web site I visit load just fine, if a bit slowly, but I expect that given my wifi connection.

Lora/LD

[choco]

I tried the new textures and I think they are amazing! thank you David but I noticed this:

looks like a wealth texture on a  bridge.....i'll have a looksee....

[superhands]

I think it might be the 'colour' only texture with out the alpha flag checked in the s3d roll out for the model. not to sure why this has occurred thoe. or it might be the texture which hasnt got an alpha.

dave

[j-dub]

That bug is not from new textures, I have already had that for some time.

[djp]

Hi David, I've been following your work for a while & you are creating some impressive stuff

I have a small issue with the new euro texture - although I think it's building specific & I had the same problem with the existing euro textures available.

pic 1 shows the curve being laid
pic 2 shows the changed result - a junction, but it should be the same as the curve just below
pic 3 shows a random maxis texture on that corner if the street is removed
pic 4 shows things as they should be if the building on the right is demolished - it's the "Greek Revival Hospital", however having tested a little more any civic building that I plop there causes the same problem



Is this something that's been mentioned before, or could it be specific to me?

Thanks for all your hard work

Dave

[newsimaddict]

Hmmm, as lmac mentioned - guard rails would look amazing along the cliff edge roads...can i see the plopperizer coming out?

I've seen guard rails in a couple prop pack when LE-ing but can't recall the owner...there was also a LE project where the person LE-d an entire town - he had some awesome looking guard rails!

New textures look great by the way. david - by any chance did you get my pm re: raised water lots? I know you're busy and understand if not : )

[djp]

I've been doing a little more testing, but it's only making things worse

I removed my Euro Road Textutes Mod to see if there was any issue between the 2 mods and things get worse - as you can see in the picture both junctions are now wrong and there is another yellow Maxis texture on the straight road



A little more testing has shown the following - I've removed all my plugin folders except NAM, Euro Road Teatures Mod & the retexture mod. (the last 2 are both datapacked)

I've placed 2 small parks to try and show the errors I'm getting

Pic 1 junction looks fine here - texture error on the roundabout
Pic 2 things start to go wrong - removed the original euro texture mod, junctions now wrong & yellow marking showing
pic 3 unpacked both mods - junction and roads look fine, roundabout also fixed
pic 4 removed original euro texture again and the errors return



I might of missed this somewhere but is it basically a needed dependency to have the original Euro Texture Mod installed?
Are there potential issues when you datapack this mod, or have I just been unlucky when packing? I'll repack again and see what happens

Sorry if this is a bit of topic, but it is sort of relevant I think

Dave

[Tarkus]

I might of missed this somewhere but is it basically a needed dependency to have the original Euro Texture Mod installed?
Are there potential issues when you datapack this mod, or have I just been unlucky when packing? I'll repack again and see what happens

If you don't have the Euro Texture Mod installed, the textures will revert to the default American textures that came with the game in zoned/built-up areas, as David's new Euro set doesn't have wealth/zone textures yet.  Put the original Euro Mod back in (loading it before the new version) and check it again--that should solve your problem.

And as far as DatPacking, generally, it's a good idea to be careful with any sort of transit mod (aside from stations or lots, which aren't really problematic).  The NAM Team recommends not DatPacking the NAM, as it will can cause issues when upgrading to a new version.  I think as long as you're vigilant and careful to remove the possibly conflicting files from the DatPacked Plugins folder, you should be okay.

-Alex

[dedgren]

Another medical procedure today, at the end of a trial-filled week (a morning and afternoon one yesterday alone).  I'll be summarizing and addressing all of the great comments and feedback on the road retextures (and addressing a few other in-process things) when I'm back this afternoon.  My boss (heh!) gave me the rest of the day off.

* * *

As an FYI- 3RR once again has a presence at Simtropolis in the form of The 3RR Blog.



I hope you'll give it a look and maybe even leave a comment or two.  Here's the [linkie].

Off to the docs...

UPDATE:

I caught this as I was signing off.



Heh!  Is there a party here I wasn't invited to or something?  I think we need to throw a "no lurkers" day tomorrow, and see who all our mystery friends are.


David

369069

[pagenotfound]

I was playing around with these the other night and I LOVE THEM... amazing how such little tweaks can make the game that much better.

[penguin007]

Not often I post here now or anywhere for that matter but this is great work again David and these new textures almost eliminate the need of puzzle pieces well done!!

Will

[djp]

If you don't have the Euro Texture Mod installed, the textures will revert to the default American textures that came with the game in zoned/built-up areas, as David's new Euro set doesn't have wealth/zone textures yet.  Put the original Euro Mod back in (loading it before the new version) and check it again--that should solve your problem.

And as far as DatPacking, generally, it's a good idea to be careful with any sort of transit mod (aside from stations or lots, which aren't really problematic).  The NAM Team recommends not DatPacking the NAM, as it will can cause issues when upgrading to a new version.  I think as long as you're vigilant and careful to remove the possibly conflicting files from the DatPacked Plugins folder, you should be okay.

-Alex

Thanks Alex,

Problem solved

I didn't have NAM packed, but everything else was, I've now not packed the original Euro mod either and everything is fine - I tried re-packing but kept getting the same errors with the default textures showing, not sure why datapacking would cause this problem?

The junction error is now showing fine, also the problem with the roundabout texture has been fixed

Keep up the good work

Dave 

[dragonshardz]

Hey! Another Dave for Dave's Day!

[Tarkus]

Dave, you're most certainly welcome!

And David, I've been playing around with the new Road textures--they are such an amazing improvement over the Maxis ones, words cannot describe it.  Haven't run into any issues, either.

-Alex

[dragonshardz]

I haven't used the new textures yet but I plan to unzip and play with them a bit soon. Right now it's time for bed, so...

Zzzzzz...

[dedgren]

Let's talk for a bit about



You'll recall a few posts back [linkie] I put up the following diagram of a retextured ortho default road surface (IID = 0x00004B00).



After noting, in sum, that the game roads were scale-wise reasonably close, if a bit wide, to their RL counterparts, I began to have a nagging doubt or two.  Such a sweeping statement when RL is right outside the front door to check out.

So I took a walk...



This is Hyer Road, a collector road¹ not far from where I live.  "Hyer," as we locals call it², has, according to 2007 stats maintained by the Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities ("AKDOT" for short), a daily traffic volume of just over 1,500 vehicles- an average of about 60 an hour, or one per minute.

...heh, minute's up- better get out of the way of that one coming around the corner...

Hyer is paved in asphalt, has little or no crown³, and the shoulders⁴ are narrow to non-existent.  I'm pretty sure that it is completely representative of about 50 to 80 percent of the minor roads in U.S. states and Canadian provinces⁵.

Let's start with Hyer's lanes.  Surprisingly enough, the width of U.S. state highways and roads is actually left... to the states (what a concept!⁶).  A group called the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, the "AASHTO⁷" [linkie] produces and updates every decade or so a publication called A Policy on Geometric Design of Streets and Highways, which is also known as the "Green Book."  The Green Book, for state departments of transportation, is the Bible when it comes to, among other things, lane width of the various types of roads in the hierarchy.  While 12 foot/3.\6 meter lane width is strongly recommended in the Green Book, 11 foot/3.3 meter lane widths are acceptable⁸.

So how wide are Hyer's lanes?  Some fool with a tape measure decided to play in traffic and find out⁹.



From the center of the centerlines...



to the edgeline of the road is...

...drum roll, please...

...11 feet/3.3 meters!

So, Hyer is built to lane width standards, which doesn't help much when one of these



is in front of you in a no passing zone.

Taking my word for it that the opposite lane is the same width, let's move on to Hyer's traffic control striping.  This is an area where the feds pretty much tell the states what to do through the Federal Highway Administration's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices ("MUTCD") [linkie].  Follow that linkie and you will learn more than you would ever want to know about highway markings and traffic signs, right down to the precise colors to be used¹⁰.

Reference to the MUTCD informs us that Hyer's centerline stripes



should be four to six inches/10 to 15 centimeters wide.  Let's see...



...look out, Ethel!  There's some nut in the road with a ruler...

Just a little over four inches/10 cm.

Here's the whole centerline.



Two four inch/10 cm stripes four inches/10 cms apart.  Again, Hyer meets the minimum standard, and my friend at AKDOT tells me that "four inch" centerline striping is uniform on Alaska's minor roads.

We know from a couple of pics above when we were measuring lane width that Hyer's edgeline



is five inches/12.7 cm wide.

* * *

So, where is this all heading, you ask?  In Part Two of this post, which is coming up within the next day or two, we'll talk about how all of this relates to the roads we have in SC4.  See you there.


David

¹  A "collector road" is the step in the road hierarchy [linkie] above purely local roads and below arterials.  They are sometimes called "minor arterials."

²  Yes, yes... of course some local joker road-naming guy or gal felt like they had to name a road down the way



"Lower Road."  Ain't life grand?

³  "Crown" is the road design term for a slight elevation of the center of a road with respect to the sides.  It is used to assist rain and other water to drain off the edges of the pavement.

⁴  "Shoulder" is the (U.S. specific?) road design term for the gravel or sometimes paved area outside of the edgeline of the outer lanes.  Shoulders are intended, among others, to allow drivers to be able to stop, deal with vehicle breakdowns and avoid obstructions in the roadway outside of the stream of traffic.  Passing (overtaking) and parking on shoulders are generally violations of the law.

⁵  Visits to Europe (most recently 1982) and Mexico (2003) leave me with the impression, with differences for local marking, that this configuration may be even more common in those places.

⁶  The U.S. federal government does regulate the width of freeways in the Interstate Highway System (the "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways").  The minimum lane width on an Interstate, as noted in the earlier post, is 12 feet/3.6 meters, although virtually all of the mileage constructed since the 1980s has lanes that are 14 feet/4.2 meters wide.

⁷  Prior to 1973, the AASHTO was called the AASHO.  The reason for the name change strikes me as fairly obvious.

⁸  Actually, more than acceptable.  A research arm of the U.S. Federal Highway Administration called the National Cooperative Highway Research Program (NCHRP) published in the mid-1990s a report entitled Roadway Widths for Low-Traffic Volume Roads (NCHRB Publication 362) that concluded that collectors and rural minor arterials could be constructed with 11 foot/3.3 meter lane widths with little impact on safety.  A friend who works for AKDOT (who, for obvious reasons, shall remain nameless) has told me, unofficially, that AKDOT endorses this view.

⁹  Don't try this at home.  3RR is not liable for resulting death, serious injury or for embarrassment resulting from the looks of curious neighbors and passing motorists.

¹⁰  Here's an example table from the umpty-ump page color specification (23 CFR Part 655)

Table 1 to Appendix to Part 655, Subpart F--Daytime Color Specification Limits for Retroreflective Material With
             CIE 2 deg. Standard Observer and 45/0 (0/45) Geometry and CIE Standard Illuminant D65.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                            Chromaticity Coordinates
                              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Color                       1                    2                     3                   4
                              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   x         y          x           y         y         x         x         y
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White........................     0.303     0.300        0.368     0.366     0.340     0.393     0.274     0.329
Red..........................     0.648     0.351        0.735     0.265     0.629     0.281     0.565     0.346
Orange.......................     0.558     0.352        0.636     0.364     0.570     0.429     0.506     0.404
Brown........................     0.430     0.340        0.430     0.390     0.518     0.434     0.570     0.382
Yellow.......................     0.498     0.412        0.557     0.442     0.479     0.520     0.438     0.472
Green........................     0.026     0.399        0.166     0.364     0.286     0.446     0.207     0.771
Blue.........................     0.078     0.171        0.150     0.220     0.210     0.160     0.137     0.038
Light Blue...................     0.180     0.260        0.240     0.300     0.270     0.260     0.230     0.200
Purple.......................     0.300     0.064        0.320     0.200     0.550     0.300     0.600     0.202
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sheesh, I thought BATting was complicated.  I'll never look at a "yellow" stripe on the road the same way again.

371280

[metarvo]

Oh, yes, there's nothing quite like some good old roadgeekery.    I never did get around to downloading the new textures, since last week was way too busy, but I might try them out this week since I have more time.  Keep up the good work, David.