Prism Tower Condos

[Diggis]

Where are you putting the Helipad.... as I see a large fin in the way on the roof. 

Also, if you are planning on having the helicopter spawn there you need to have tight LODs over the HeliPad.

Also, I have noticed that you replace your images a lot.  I would suggest leaving them there as it gives people an idea of the creative process as you work through.

[RadicalOne]

Where are you putting the Helipad.... as I see a large fin in the way on the roof.

I removed four solar units from the south side, and relocated the HVAC unit closer to the fin. The center of the helipad is a safe four or five meters from the fin.

Also, if you are planning on having the helicopter spawn there you need to have tight LODs over the HeliPad.

Please explain.

Also, I have noticed that you replace your images a lot.  I would suggest leaving them there as it gives people an idea of the creative process as you work through.

I do that to save photobucket space - I am using the account to store images for addons for multiple games. I can stop replacing them...at least until I do run out of space.

[Diggis]

I removed four solar units from the south side, and relocated the HVAC unit closer to the fin. The center of the helipad is a safe four or five meters from the fin.

Glad I'm not flying in there.... thats not much space for error, added to the fact the Fin would cause havoc with the winds.  I would suggest the helipad's not the best idea in this case. 

Please explain.

I'm going to assume you aren't super familiar with the way the game renders on to the LODs here.  Best way to understand them is to open your model file in the reader and look at the 3DS (or 3SD, never can remember) files.  Play with the rotation and see if it makes sense.  Essentially it projects the image you rendered of your model and projects it onto the LOD.  The helicopter spawner will look for the top of the LOD for it's height.  You can move it lower down but unless your roof is projecting onto the TOP of the LOD it'll look funny.  I can't explain more at the moment but if you are still lost I'll post tonight.

I do that to save photobucket space - I am using the account to store images for addons for multiple games. I can stop replacing them...at least until I do run out of space.

Totally up to you, I was just saying it's not necessary but if you have your reasons. 

[callagrafx]

open your model file in the reader and look at the 3DS (or 3SD, never can remember) files. 

psssst..... S3D   

[RadicalOne]

Glad I'm not flying in there.... thats not much space for error, added to the fact the Fin would cause havoc with the winds.  I would suggest the helipad's not the best idea in this case.

Perhaps. Given the complexities this is introducing, I might well scrap it.

I'm going to assume you aren't super familiar with the way the game renders on to the LODs here.  Best way to understand them is to open your model file in the reader and look at the 3DS (or 3SD, never can remember) files.  Play with the rotation and see if it makes sense.  Essentially it projects the image you rendered of your model and projects it onto the LOD.  The helicopter spawner will look for the top of the LOD for it's height.  You can move it lower down but unless your roof is projecting onto the TOP of the LOD it'll look funny.  I can't explain more at the moment but if you are still lost I'll post tonight.

I've done that S3D file examination before, but I am lost as to what you mean by "tight LOD".

[tag_one]

I would skip the Helipad as well. Not only because of the wind issues but because of the amount of visual interest on the top of the building. The new fin design looks wonderful and will be a great eye catcher on your building. I think you should keep the rest of the roof quite simple with the normal stuff like the HVAC units and solarpannels you use now. An Helipad will make the roof a bit to busy I think

As for the LOD's, normally you hit the button and BAT creates the 3 LODs for the building. These LODs are simple boxes in which your building will fit. If you play around with props in the lot editor you'll notice that props will disappear when they're too close to your building. This is because of the LOD's. With complex building where you would like to add props within the area of the LOD box, you can model your own LODs. By modeling the LOD very close to the edges of your building you can add props on places where they would normally disappear. Hope that made some sense 

[RadicalOne]

I would skip the Helipad as well. Not only because of the wind issues but because of the amount of visual interest on the top of the building. The new fin design looks wonderful and will be a great eye catcher on your building. I think you should keep the rest of the roof quite simple with the normal stuff like the HVAC units and solarpannels you use now. An Helipad will make the roof a bit to busy I think

Done.

As for the LOD's, normally you hit the button and BAT creates the 3 LODs for the building. These LODs are simple boxes in which your building will fit. If you play around with props in the lot editor you'll notice that props will disappear when they're too close to your building. This is because of the LOD's. With complex building where you would like to add props within the area of the LOD box, you can model your own LODs. By modeling the LOD very close to the edges of your building you can add props on places where they would normally disappear. Hope that made some sense

Ah. Does the LOD have to be a rectangular prism? Or can I have a complex LOD?

[Diggis]

No, the LOD doesn't have to be a rectangle, but only use a complex LOD if it's needed.  The more faces on the LOD the more drain on the game there is.

[RadicalOne]

No, the LOD doesn't have to be a rectangle, but only use a complex LOD if it's needed.  The more faces on the LOD the more drain on the game there is.

OK...I'll use a two-tier rectangular prism LOD. Nine external faces.

[Diggis]

Any particular reason you want tight LOD for this?

[RadicalOne]

Any particular reason you want tight LOD for this?

I want to be able to place a few props (blinking lights, etc) on the roof and fin.

[SimFox]

knock, knock...

well, that's nasty me...

Anywho... I wanted to comment a bit on the neons...

Actually there is a way to have as many colors for neons as one may want. Plus to have full nightlibrary type (some also call it truNite , although it is somewhat erroneous) in GMAX BAT. Although it wouldn't be possible to get all the bells and whistles tha t3DS Max offers things like Global illumination etc... but some of the glory of it's nite view could be achieved in GMAX as well. And it isn't all that difficult either.

What would need to be done is to have a duplicate of your scene. Like in early versions of truNite there will have to be two exports followed by some manual insertions and renaming. Luckily these actually don't take much of the work.



So basic procedure is as follows:

1. Use your current scene as a day one. Remove any nite elements from it. This step isn't strictly necessary, but it will speed up export. If it is too much of a work to hunt all of them down you may skip it

2.Save a copy of it. This will give you night views that will finally appear in the game. Make sure that you have called it something like *_night, so that you could easily identified night view model later on.
3. In this Night Scene add any neons, textures even different model element you what to be seen at night make material self-Illuminated:


note that defuse color must be pure black. this way your self-illuminated mats will be un-reactive to light. This will garantee best looking results.

4. Make sure that you name the all elements that you have assigned self-illuminated materials to have night_ or nitelite_ prefix. This will make sure that whey will be masked out for the night view.

5. Export your day scene.
6. Export your night scene.
7. Open Night scene model in iLive Reader. Select all night FSHs (those taht have "8" in the Instance ID as fifth digit). Copy them.
8. open you Day scene model in iLive Reader. past night FSHs into it. If you leave ti like this night views will not show in the game, as your Night view FSHs have different Group IDs as your day ones. So you will have to re-name them.
9. This re-naming could be very quickly and easily accomplished in iLive Reader:
Go to Tools -> TGI Editor.
Select all the newly pasted FSHs files. They'll be grouped together by Group IDs, something like this:


leave Type and Instance IDs masked out (leave # in those fields) and type or paste in the group IDs value of your day scene model.

That's it!

Now you'll have your night view exported separatelly show up in game.

Few notes.

This is an approximation of the truNite process. Since it is only approximation it has few limitations and not quite as good as what is realized in automated truNite exported in Bat4Max 2.6HD. Main issue is that mask created in GMAX is brightness based (converted form a color). This means that some of the colors, particularly those in red spectrum will not be quite as well preserved as others. if you look carefully you'll notice that red letters here not quite as brightly glowing as green or blue:



But this is the best that as far as I can see could be done.

[RadicalOne]

Actually there is a way to have ans many colors for neons as one may want. Plus to have full nightlibrary type (some also call it truNite , although it is somewhat erroneous) in GMAX BAT. Although it wouldn't be possible to get all the bells and whistles tha t3DS Max offers things like Global illumination etc... but some of the glory of it's nite view could be achieved in GMAX as well. And it isn't all that difficult either.

This is an approximation of the truNite process. Since it is only approximation it has few limitations and not quite as good as what is realized in automated truNite exported in Bat4Max 2.6HD. Main issue is that mask created in GMAX is brightness based (converted form a color). This means that some of the colors, particularly those in red spectrum will not be quite as well preserved as others. if you look carefully you'll notice that red letters here not quite as brightly glowing as green or blue:

I've seen that process outlined before - though never so thoroughly - and it is indeed an amazing one. Unfortunately, I almost certainly cannot export twice, especially if I'm to export on the "high quality" setting. One - zoom 5 - preview day render on "Low" quality took more than 30 minutes. One full render could easily take several - up to 9 - hours at this stage.

PS
The fact that red is dimmer is not a problem. Not only is red rarer than the other colors for nightlighting - especially for mine - but red is usually dimmer anyways.

EDIT:
I can't get good looking night lighting. I tried both Omnis and spots inside the transparent windows, both of which fail to light the interior of the building, making the windows still look dark. Worse, all of the light spills onto the balconies, making for solid white...

[SimGoober]

nitelighting is an art more than a science.  Yes there are certain techniques that give specific results, but how you use these techniques is what defines the final outcome.  To play with nightlighting, there are several threads here and on SimTrop which give ideas, but here are a few brief points :

1 - Cast shadows.  This option is usually best for nitelights. Usually. This means that whenever a light hits a solid object it stops, so it doesn't bleed through walls.  It also means some light will pass through opaque textured objects and cast some shadows.

2 - Attenuation settings make a big difference.  This tells the renderer where to start the light and where to end it.  So it only shows up on the objects within that range.

3 - Intensity : lights outside of an object usually light up well at about intensity 1.0 (default).  Objects behind opaque textures (glass) need more intense lights to show through.  THe intensity will vary depending on how opaque the texture is (30% .. 60%.. ) and the colors of the textures used. I usually find that 1.75 works well behind glass, but it varies a lot.

4 - Play with it.  Make a small model of a simple shape, and play with the lights.  The only way to really see what happens is to do a preview render, and this can take several minutes on a larger model.  So experiment on a "scrap" model annd see what happens.


In the end, don't let the nitelites stress you out.  THey look great to present your work to the world, but the average player rarely actually looks at them in game.

[jmyers2043]

I can't get good looking night lighting.

You and the rest of us.     Welcome to our pain.   

Play with it.

Everything thing that Goober said is good advice. Especially the last.

I dislike doing the night lights. Probably because it is not an exact science. Or - probably I don't know enough about it to make it an exact science. Certainly for the beginner it is the hard because is both difficult and tedious.

Gmax can basically be like this. Make a wall; make a window with glass, frames, and sills. Texture this, that, and the other. Add a door to your wall and then add a light so that the Sims can find their way at night. Easy as pie so far? Now come the night lights. Bat your spot or direct onto the model. Do a render. Adjust some parameter, do another render, change it because you went too far, do another test render, not right yet, ARGH! etc. From my perspective? Night lights are the hardest thing to get right nor my favorite part of batting.

Good Luck. 

[RadicalOne]

nitelighting is an art more than a science.

It is not an exact science.

That can't help...I am one who is used to exact answers, or at least exact groups of probabilities which can be determined by a series of procedures.

1 - Cast shadows.  This option is usually best for nitelights. Usually. This means that whenever a light hits a solid object it stops, so it doesn't bleed through walls.  It also means some light will pass through opaque textured objects and cast some shadows.

I always have that on - yet I still get weird bleed effects.

2 - Attenuation settings make a big difference.  This tells the renderer where to start the light and where to end it.  So it only shows up on the objects within that range.
3 - Intensity : lights outside of an object usually light up well at about intensity 1.0 (default).  Objects behind opaque textures (glass) need more intense lights to show through.  THe intensity will vary depending on how opaque the texture is (30% .. 60%.. ) and the colors of the textures used. I usually find that 1.75 works well behind glass, but it varies a lot.

These two tips should be extremely helpful.

4 - Play with it.  Make a small model of a simple shape, and play with the lights.  The only way to really see what happens is to do a preview render, and this can take several minutes on a larger model.  So experiment on a "scrap" model annd see what happens.

I do a variation of this - I hide the upper majority of the model, which prevents it from rendering, light a few floors, and test that. If it works, I array that up the tower.

In the end, don't let the nitelites stress you out.  THey look great to present your work to the world, but the average player rarely actually looks at them in game.

In that case, if all else fails - though I think progress is being made via the attenuation tools - I'll just use nightmaps.

[Diggis]

1 - Cast shadows.  This option is usually best for nitelights. Usually. This means that whenever a light hits a solid object it stops, so it doesn't bleed through walls.  It also means some light will pass through opaque textured objects and cast some shadows.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't use GMAX, but you would need to have the shadow settings set to Raytrace Shadows to get it to throw light through a semi transparent object wouldn't you?

Edit, Maybe not... could have sworn that was the case...  Can someone clear that up?

[callagrafx]

Is there a structure inside for light to reflect off?  All light requires a surface to bounce off to be visible, if this doesn't exist, the light will not either.

[SimGoober]

Good point Cal. That one has gotten me on several occasions.  If the building is hollow.... what does the light reflect off of?

Raytrace?  lol... Never really played with that in all these years....   

For bleeding, make sure the seams between pieces are tight. Light can get through the smallest cracks sometimes....

[RadicalOne]

Good point Cal. That one has gotten me on several occasions.  If the building is hollow.... what does the light reflect off of?

Is there a structure inside for light to reflect off?  All light requires a surface to bounce off to be visible, if this doesn't exist, the light will not either.

I figured that out, right at the very beginning. There is a carpet floor and interior walls to light.

For bleeding, make sure the seams between pieces are tight. Light can get through the smallest cracks sometimes....

They are tight.

OK, I have got the interior lighting working, but I'm getting glare on the outside faces of the windows...