relearning the game

[thingfishs]

I expect there will be further questions so I've named the thread reasonably ambiguously. I am putting together an alternately themed version of SC4 in SimMedieval. Before I get bogged down in the scary number of RCI lots necessary, I want to get a functional, if repetitive, version of the game together. So it can go through all the stages (minus the CAM stages I'm assuming), what is fundamentally necessary? I have already put together 100 odd lots using existing buildings - mostly R$ & CS$ stage 1 and 2. Although many of the R$ 1x2 lots are immediately sprouting up, further progress isn't happening. The level of commercial development is palpably different to the regular game, and the diversity of the R development is minimal. Most of these started life as a blank (R$1 1x2, or whatever) lot, although some were using the modified lots from the original uploads.

Before I get completely confused with the different, possibly conflicting setups that these lots all have, I'm guessing I'll need to start again making sure that: 1. they are all on the same page stat wise and 2. that I have a better idea of the ramifications of the changes I may make. In SC4PIM for e.g., what's the difference between dragging a model onto the R high wealth bit, and the R$$$(stage whatever) bit?
More so, how can I get a basic plan together that will result, as I said earlier, in a fully functional albeit boring town? What is fundamentally necessary for stage 2 development?

thanks muchly for any and all input

[thingfishs]

OK, well having learnt a bit since my last post above, I am trying again. Last time I spent ages making nice lots that mostly never grew. This time I made simple test lots just to see if I could get it working. I made lots in the following configurations:

Residential

LW                                                                                                         

1x1 stage 3
1x1 stage 2
1x1 stage 4
2x1 stage 1
2x1 stage 2
2x2 stage 1
2x2 stage 2
1x2 stage 1
1x2 stage 2
1x3 stage 1
1x3 stage 2
2x3 stage 1
2x3 stage 2
3x2 stage 2
3x3 stage 2



MW

1x1 s5
1x1 s4
1x1 s6
2x1 s3
2x1 s4
2x1 s5
2x2 s2
2x2 s3
2x2 s1
2x3 s2
3x2 s2
3x3 s2
3x3 s1


HW

1x1 s5
1x1 s6
2x1 s4
2x1 s5
3x2 s3
2x2 s3
2x2 s4
2x3 s2
3x2 s2



CS

LW

2x1 s1
2x1 s2
2x2 s1
2x2 s2
3x1 s1
3x1 s2
3x2 s1
3x2 s2
3x3 s1
3x3 s2


MW

1x1 s1
1x1 s2
2x1 s1
2x1 s2
1x2 s1
1x2 s2
2x2 s1
2x2 s2
1x4 s1
1x3 s1
2x3 s1
2x3 s2


HW

1x1 s2
1x1 s3
2x1 s1
2x1 s2
2x2 s1
2x2 s2
1x3 s1
1x3 s2

In addition to these I made some manufacturing IND & agriculture fields. These lots were all made with PIMX by dragging the chosen model onto the Residential Low Wealth (for e.g) and then sometimes making slight lot & stage adjustments in the resulting dialog.

What I was expecting after making these was easy initial growth in my city (regardless of how ugly it may be); but that's not what happened.

These photos show the same basic test setup with only power provided, and a range of primarily low density zoning. One using a RH setup, and one using the plugins I listed above.



(With the all maxis setup growth was near instantaneous and comprehensive)


(with mine it was extremely patchy and took forever)

If I did the same thing but with the PIM, would the results be more in line with the Maxis version? Is there something else affecting growth that I'm not aware of?

In another test setup, where an elementary school, medical clinic, water, police & fire were provided sims still weren't keen to move in. (Some middle wealth sims did and soon abandoned, but zero low wealth)

This is obviously in stark contrast to how things usually go with the game. How can I improve things?

[wouanagaine]

It seems the Res is only growing on 2x2
Are the density of the lots in line with how you zoned ?
Make sure your allowed all tilesets in SC4 or at least it match the tilesets of your lots
Using Buggy.dll make sure your lots are available ( ie correctly loaded )

note also that PIMX create examplars in line with what CAM expects, I don't think this is the culprit here, as at low stage it basically create the same values as PIM

[thingfishs]

Thanks wouanagaine

It seems the Res is only growing on 2x2

that's only in the 2nd setup (all the 2x2 are medium wealth), whereas in the 1st setup none of these grew but lots of 1x2 LW.

Are the density of the lots in line with how you zoned ?

My complete steps were: dragging the model onto the right bit in PIMX, then "create growable lot from this building"; when/how do you set density?

Make sure your allowed all tilesets in SC4 or at least it match the tilesets of your lots

All tilesets are enabled

Using Buggy.dll make sure your lots are available ( ie correctly loaded )

What command do I need? I used buildingplop, and could see my buildings, but not the lots.

note also that PIMX create examplars in line with what CAM expects, I don't think this is the culprit here, as at low stage it basically create the same values as PIM

Hmm. Considering this, should I actually be doing my exemplar creation in PIM?

[wouanagaine]

that's only in the 2nd setup (all the 2x2 are medium wealth), whereas in the 1st setup none of these grew but lots of 1x2 LW.

Can you attach a zip with all your created lots if it is not too big ?

My complete steps were: dragging the model onto the right bit in PIMX, then "create growable lot from this building"; when/how do you set density?

I think you can't, but I meant "check what density PIMX set up" for the lot

All tilesets are enabled

It would have be too easy

What command do I need? I used buildingplop, and could see my buildings, but not the lots.

I think there is a command for ploping all available lots, didn't remember it, check the buggy thread ( sorry I have no link at hand )

Hmm. Considering this, should I actually be doing my exemplar creation in PIM?

Maybe Ripplejet should know better than me

[thingfishs]

OK, here are the lots. There are a few more residential in here than in the list above, but the results are still the same.

http://easy-upload.nl/f/MpW3EMmH

[wouanagaine]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you should make some ID lots
In your RH setup I can see there is a lot of ID growing, but in your files, I don't see any ID lots.

[thingfishs]

thanks, I'll try that. I just figured there was something else going on as the maxis LW Res. don't require there be ID to sprout like weeds...

[wouanagaine]

It might not be the only cause, but it can help, this is just a first guess

Just try to see how many agricultural job you have with your farms, and see how many people it can sustain ( using the job graph view )

[RippleJet]

Hmm. Considering this, should I actually be doing my exemplar creation in PIM?

I would recommend against using Maxis PIM...
First of all, you would loose the ability to change the filling degree.
Basically all houses (regardless of how boxy they are) would get a filling degree of 0.5.

Secondly, certain properties are screwed up in Maxis PIM.
E.g. pollution, water consumption and industrial occupancy.

[thingfishs]

thanks ripplejet, though I won't profess to understanding the filling degree yet, I know I don't want to lose it.

So I tried a new test setup including some ID lots and this was the results:


The test area


Initial development without ID


After 1 year without ID



Initial development with ID (ID was the first to develop)


After 1 year with ID


My take on this is that ID has definitely helped push overall demand. Hopefully some more experienced eyes can spot something else that may be of use.

The plan is, once I have a setup of lots that seem to be functioning as expected, I will then go ahead and LOT them appropriately.

What I still don't understand is why in the test setup where I provided health/education/fire/police/water, that NO LW moved in. Only MW who soon abandoned...?

[wouanagaine]

How many years did you run the test with all services ?

I think MW got attracted because of them, and then get abandonned because there were no jobs for them

[thingfishs]

How many years did you run the test with all services ?

I think MW got attracted because of them, and then get abandonned because there were no jobs for them

Actually I ran that setup for 30 years or so on cheetah mode. Mostly though, these have been short 1-2 years tests aimed purely at achieving a similar explosion of Res growth as can be seen in the Maxis game. ID has helped. What I am trying to do here is make a new game (of sorts, a la SimMars) Before I worry about making things pretty, I want to make sure I have a comprehensive set of lots that can result in a fully functioning village/town/city/region. Without having a better plan I am starting with early stage LW R,C & I lots and taking it from there. I would be greatly thankful for anyone that can suggest any improvements to my current strategy.

[RippleJet]

Without having a better plan I am starting with early stage LW R,C & I lots and taking it from there.

Sounds like the only decent plan.
As long as you're not cheating with the education and health,
that is what always grows first in a new region.