getting to know Max

[thingfishs]

OK, more problems. I am successfully rendering the BAT, but no model is appearing in the LE or SC4PIM. I can see and open the file in all, but when I open it it's blank. Sometimes you can see the blue occupant size square and sometimes even that is missing and there's nothing at all...

[Diggis]

OK, more problems. I am successfully rendering the BAT, but no model is appearing in the LE or SC4PIM. I can see and open the file in all, but when I open it it's blank. Sometimes you can see the blue occupant size square and sometimes even that is missing and there's nothing at all...

Do you get a *.SC4Model file?  Can you upload it here?

[Girafe]

OK, more problems. I am successfully rendering the BAT, but no model is appearing in the LE or SC4PIM. I can see and open the file in all, but when I open it it's blank. Sometimes you can see the blue occupant size square and sometimes even that is missing and there's nothing at all...

Are you sure that yu didn't forget a step like Batch cmd or insert FSH 

[thingfishs]

thanks diggis & girafe,

I've just followed the steps outlined in my earlier post; it's the first I've heard of batch cmd or insert fsh...
Yes I am getting a sc4model file, I will upload it in a while

here it is: http://easy-upload.nl/f/L1jXRA1D

[Diggis]

OK, in the rollouts for BAT4MAX will be one with batch commands in it.  It may be called that, not sure, can't check right now sorry.  There are 2 batch commands that need running as girafe said above. These should be checked to run automatically.  I would guess yours aren't and so the MAX render never got put in the model file.

[callagrafx]

here it is: http://easy-upload.nl/f/L1jXRA1D

It mentions them in the step by step guide here:

http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=112233&enterthread=y&STARTPAGE=1

9. Create and Insert FSHs.
Depending on your settings program will go through numerous render passes and when done display success report. Now press
FSH Batch Build and then DAT FSH Insert.

RTFM  


Edit: DON'T tick the autoexecute as it'll fall over if you don't have the DELTREE.EXE file in the BAT folder.  Even if you do, I sincerely advise against using it in XP or higher. Simply get into the practice of clicking those two after you render.

[thingfishs]

RTFM  

I haven't come across that term before but I didn't need to google it to interpret it. 
What can I say, I've been trying to learn too much all at once and there are consequences... like missing crucial bits of information. I'll admit I don't learn well from manuals and like I did with gmax, am naturally inclined to jump right in and figure it out as I go. But it's become very obvious that 3ds is not nearly as straightforward as gmax; I just hope the increase in quality is worth it (to my untrained eye)

Thanks diggis & callagrafx, I'll get there eventually 

[thingfishs]

Well it's still not working

My steps are:

-I have a model in Max.
-click day in let there be light
-re-fit LODs
-hdoutput (this is a HD prop I am making)
-export LODs

then in gmax:
-import
-hdoutput
-save with new name
-export

back to Max:

-click day in LTBL
-HD (it's still checked from earlier)
-click export/get model name
-render BAT, click OK
- FSH Batch Build button
- day-2-nite button
- truNite FSH Insert button

I create my LOT without issue and can see and open it with the LE. However when I try and place it all I can see is the blue occupant size rectangle... 

I am really starting to miss gmax.

[Diggis]

I don't use this version of BAT4MAX, but it sounds like a lot of steps at the end.  My copy has a check box to run the scripts automatically.

Again can you upload the SC4Model file?  Also, check in the MAX/Gamepacks folder and see if there are any output files in there.  I'm not 100% where it puts them but there should be a series of folders with the model names in them.  Check for their existence.

Additionally, SimFox (I assume it's his script thats 4.0?) must have a trouble shooting thread somewhere so I would suggest you post there.

[thingfishs]

thanks diggis,
My MAX\gamepacks\BAT folder has many cheeky reminders of attempts that haven't worked in it (ending in .bat). Here is the model and desc files of my latest failure:
http://easy-upload.nl/f/xRsiqm67

As for the many steps at the end I was told it was better to get used to doing those steps manually (presumably on this thread)

[Diggis]

What is the name of your MAX installation folder?  And Lee wrote the message above (via ninja edit, was after I read the post) about not checking the Auto box.  I have Chris's version which doesn't require Deltree.

Find the folder for the model you uploaded and see if there are renders in there with images on them.  Either Max is doing blank renders or your batch processes aren't running properly.

[callagrafx]

Well it's still not working

My steps are:

-I have a model in Max.
-click day in let there be light
-re-fit LODs
-hdoutput (this is a HD prop I am making)
-export LODs

then in gmax:
-import
-hdoutput
-save with new name
-export

back to Max:

-click day in LTBL
-HD (it's still checked from earlier)
-click export/get model name
-render BAT, click OK
- FSH Batch Build button
- day-2-nite button
- truNite FSH Insert button

I create my LOT without issue and can see and open it with the LE. However when I try and place it all I can see is the blue occupant size rectangle... 

I am really starting to miss gmax.

OK, I think I see what's happening....

You only do the last two steps for the night version.  What's happening is you are rendering the day version and then converting the FSH TGI to night version ones.  Do everything EXCEPT the last two steps (in bold) and add in a step, which is to press FSH Insert (in the Batch CMD section) and see what happens.

Shaun, I wish I could use Chris's, but I'm on Max 2009 Design and B4M3 is incompatible 

[Diggis]

Shaun, I wish I could use Chris's, but I'm on Max 2009 Design and B4M3 is incompatible 

I know, and I sympathise.  I was more pointing out that Thingfish should really be posting this in SimFox's support thread, and that it's funny SF has left that section in there.

[callagrafx]

I dunno why he left it in either... It's easy enough to remove if you know enough about Maxscript.

[thingfishs]

Thanks guys, but still no luck.

diggis: My installation folder is c\3dsMAX2010. I checked the output files folder and they did contain further folders with successful render images.

callagrafx: I'll say it for you RTFR... (in this case the Reply). I was all set to say it didn't work (as can be seen above), and it was only in rereading your post on the reply page that I saw my error. I just left off the last two steps without inserting them, twice... 

In other words, it worked!!

Great thanks to all

BTW, what are the discernible (by mortals), differences between BAT4MAXs?

[Diggis]

BTW, what are the discernible (by mortals), differences between BAT4MAXs?

Hmmm, tough question, and bear in mind I am totally a mortal in this area.  As I haven't played with SF's one I can't really say.  Essentially they are both based off the B4M V2 which was complied as a group effort I believe but CP gets a lot of the credit.

I think SF has added in a lot of stuff for very advanced users and advanced lighting (which appeared to be causing you issues) as well as not removing the reference to DELTREE in the scripts.  He also has HD rendering in his scripts which aren't in Chris's public upload.

Chris has some very good integration between GMAX and MAX which I find a time saver, as well as Batch rendering (which is gold to those of us doing modular items) and some good LOD compilation options which I like. He was testing HD before he had to dissapear so unfortunatly it was never released.

Unfortunatly the scripts would need updating for Chris's to allow them to be used with 2010 so you're stuck with 'V4'.  Fortunatly for you Cal is in the same boat and therefore able to help you out as I wouldn't ever have been able to with that error.

[zero7]

Actually the main advantage of SF's latest Bat4Max is not in the surface functionality, which is pretty much as it always has been since he implemented the two stage 'trunite' render.  The real advance is in replace FSHman with null45's PNG to FSH conversion.  The result is that the FSH is no longer a vague approximation of what you saw in the render, but actually matches it pixel for pixel.  The only degrading of the image from 3DS max to what you see in game now takes place in the game engine.

For all the nice twiddly bits in Chris' version, SimFox has concentrated on the core functionality resulting in better quality output and so for me if you're using a compatible version 3DS Max you should be using the latest BAT4Max.

CAL - your advice to thingfishs looks right to me - using the night insert buttons for the day render.

[callagrafx]

Well, they both do what they say on the tin... Chris did a load of tidying up that SF hasn't and made the creation of skintight LODs much easier...vital if you are doing water based stuff.  The problem I encountered with SF's version is the nightlighting.  While it's been adapted to reflect SF's own preference, the two stage render process is a bit convoluted, and if you switch lights off for the day version, they mysteriously turn themselves on again after the first render, which screws things up a lot, so in effect you need two scenes, day and night.  This isn't a major problem for most things, but the La Mirage model runs to nearly 150MB, so having two of them eats resources.  And, as far as I'm aware, the old system of day and night renders in a single export is no longer available.  Which means what was a fairly automated process now requires manual input.

[zero7]

I wasn't keen on the two stage render initially and at one time had my own automated scripts to make it a one stage process.  However the ability to move objects about within the LOD between the day and night versions convinced me.  For example on my 'Wedge Tower', the restaurants are busier at night, with more people models and rearranged tables and chairs.  I also find using two scenes more straightforward than night libraries for self illuminated materials.

Ultimately it comes down to people's preferred methodology and as we know there are a number of differing views on BAT creation and the characteristics of the look that results - it all keeps things interesting.

[thingfishs]

Hi again,
still battling away with Max, although I've come a long way since last using this thread. My problem at the moment though has me stumped. With my current scene, when I perform a preview render, I get the same view no matter which view I choose. (N,S,E or W)
I have had this happen before with a downloaded web model but never found a solution. My current scene began life as an experiment for SimMedieval, to see whether it was worth importing .dae models from google warehouse. The scene came through minus textures and in one piece, so the experiment was considered a failure. Before I deleted it though, I "traced" the outlines of the building to get it's approximate dimensions.
Upon noticing the rendering issue I mad a new scene and merged the building with it but to no avail. Does anyone know how to fix this problem?