To CAM or not to CAM...

[schm0]

Hope I'm not posting in the wrong spot here, but I'm an old vet returning after a long hiatus. I have been downloading the nearly 2 gigs of addons that I previously had, plus some of those that have been released since I last placed. It has been a slow process, indeed, which I'm sure most of you can relate to. I'm finally up and running with all of the essentials and about half of the custom content I'd like to have available.

One of the issues that has come up while installing everything over the past several weeks is the CAM, and whether or not to install it, too. I have been trying to weigh my options, but I'm just not sure if the CAM will be worth the download. If I understand correctly, this is a short synopsis what you will get with the CAM:

1) Faster, more diverse and additional growth stages.
2) Increased capacities for nearly everything in the game
3) The "fun" of taking the game past it's intended limits (, for lack of a better description)
4) CAMpatible Lots (some of which I have already, I believe) and CAMeLots, exclusive growable versions of new and previously published buildings

My thing is: I'm just not sure that installing the CAM is what's right for me. I don't really have any desire to create a skyscraper network across my region, which is what this mod appears to do in most of the screenshots I have seen. Not to be harsh, but I'm basing this visual example on screenshots alone. I'm much more geared towards creating a major central downtown area with several minor city hubs, an expansive blanket of outlying suburbs and a rural/wilderness area. Ideally, transportation networks, flora and building/urban planning and diversity also play key roles. And it's not that I don't think I could achieve this with the CAM, it's that I'm not necessarily sure that I *need* the CAM to do so.

While the "normal" version of SC4 certainly has its quirks, I'm wondering if the CAM is necessarily the best choice for a major addition to my add-ons. I'm looking to you guys to give me some of your pro's and con's after using this for the couple of years it's been out.

So what do you like?
Is there anything you don't like?
Are there any new limitations placed on gameplay from this mod?
Or are the new limitations just a fun, new and exciting challenge?

[RippleJet]

My thing is: I'm just not sure that installing the CAM is what's right for me. I don't really have any desire to create a skyscraper network across my region, which is what this mod appears to do in most of the screenshots I have seen. Not to be harsh, but I'm basing this visual example on screenshots alone. I'm much more geared towards creating a major central downtown area with several minor city hubs, an expansive blanket of outlying suburbs and a rural/wilderness area. Ideally, transportation networks, flora and building/urban planning and diversity also play key roles. And it's not that I don't think I could achieve this with the CAM, it's that I'm not necessarily sure that I *need* the CAM to do so.

No, you certainly don't need CAM 1.0 for rurality/wilderness.
You might be interested in Rural CAM 2.0 though...
If Jim were here, he could probably tell you some more, based on his beta testing...

If you'd be interested in beta testing Rural CAM 2.0, just tell me and I'll sign you up.

[Jack_wilds]

hello all, Jack wilds here...

I too don't know where to ask/state,  so here goes....
 
-rumors about CAM2

is there a CAM2 thread...does it address development progress and development... is the cam2rural testing only for a few... what SC4-BSC standing does one need to participate in some testing... what do hope/plan/anticipate cam2 'doings' with sc4... how does cam1/2/2rural work with nam... is the update realistic expectation with in the year or more; not wanting to breach the 'rule' just some notion...

It would be such an awesome thing that all the NAM projects -NAM, NWM, TuLePs, RHW, CAM2, and a few other anticipated bats all were released in the same time-frame Christmas comes to BSC...    but such a scenario perhaps too far fetched... at ant rate I know you guys are doing great works requiring a patience on my part... so I'll wait 


jack 

[jmyers2043]

I don't really have any desire to create a skyscraper network across my region

Me either.

But the CAM is still worthwhile for a balanced rural area. Maybe you'll recognize the following scenario... One starts a new region. You'll get some stage 1 farms when you start a new city. Then you'll get a few (very few) stage 2 farms. Then you'll reach a point where stage 3 farms will grow 80% or more of the time. I used to compensate by loading up my plugins with nothing but stage 3 farms. The CAM made a change. Stages 1 through 3 farms have about equal chance to grow right from the start. A major step in the right direction if one wants variety. All the farms on the LEX are engineered for and really work well with the CAM. They are well thought out as far as stage growth, jobs offered, pollution, etc. . . . Yes, the stage 1 - 3 farms that you'll download work well with Maxis original. But the CAM is where the BSC farms and rural game play really shines.   

One must have water for a stage 4 farm to grow. And be near a fire station for a stage 5 farm to grow. Larger commercial oriented farms are normally stage 4. So I can have those close to the city. Providing a large number of jobs for R$ Sims living in the rural town. - OR - I can be working along and say "hey, would this not be a nice spot for a hydroponic stage 5 farm" ... so I'll make a small village with a fire house and there will be a chance (usually 1 in 6) that a hydroponic farm will grow within the fire stations coverage area.

I recommend the CAM highly for rural play. 

You might be interested in Rural CAM 2.0 though... If Jim were here, he could probably tell you some more, based on his beta testing

I just now discovered this thread...

As far as CAM 2 Rural? I've been beta testing since the beginning of December. What can I say    I can build farms as far as the eye can see if I want. Education used to kill farming. It is now necessary as that will help the look of small towns (but not too much education). You wish to have a rural region with a big city along the coast or where two rivers merge? You also wish to have expansive suburbs? Wish to have a lot of surrounding farmland or open territory? CAM 2 Rural is for you. You'll be at it for some time. The region will be big as you will need a lot of suburbs to have a chance at your mega city. You may get your first CAMeLOT when the population of your mega city reaches 200,000 ... Whereas before a CAMeLOT was easy to achieve when the city was 50K to 70K. And you better decide from the start that you want to play big. Big region that is. Rural CAM 2 is not a 2X2 four city quickly region. Remember - I'm working on Rural CAM 2 HARD. I'm not sure where the numbers break with CAM 2 medium or easy.

Don't want a huge city? That's fine too. Your 'big' town of 50,000 will be very realistic looking and eerily similar to my home town with a mere handful of 6 or 7 story buildings... It won't be tall.

CAM 2 is not for the plopper types or eye candy cities  - that's for sure. You don't need the CAM for that. Just a money cheat and all the downloads your plugin's can handle. Bah!

I mean, all the beta testers had to learn new skills with CAM 2. We all brought our bad lazy habits from before and quickly discovered the need to pay attention to budgets, taxes, and the virtue of patience.

[RippleJet]

what SC4-BSC standing does one need to participate in some testing...

Good standing in the community, and a willingness to report on the beta testing.
I've signed you up, Jack. Read about CAM 2.0 here, introduce yourself and start playing/testing/reporting!

[Panda_Power]

I tried that link to read about CAM 2.0 because I'm interested in creating more rural areas as opposed to metropolises, but it said: The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."

Is there any news on when CAM 2.00 will be available?

Thanks!

[RippleJet]

Is there any news on when CAM 2.00 will be available?

This year!

[SeanSC4]

For me, the major advantage of using CAM is the granularity you get from having 15 stages for residential and commercial buildings and 8 stages for industrial. You're no longer stuck squishing all your skyscrapers of any noticeable height into stages 7 and 8. Now you can add in custom content in such a way that you can actually have your midrises grow during stages 4-8 while still allowing for the eventual growth of larger buildings as the city develops. Personally, I find it a far more organic and natural growth pattern than the vanilla game.

[majorpickhead]

I put SC4d on my new computer, spent 8 hours going through here and simtropolis.

Cam is pretty awesome, although the big buildings will always come eventually it just lets you think you are doing better, hah!

[JeeKTan]

Don't install CAM if you have a existing region. Install CAM if you have a new region to play with.

[Indisguise]

Well I would disagree with you there. Unless your using mods to run your cities and or region. Adjusting your playing style and city set up for the new ( in my opion better simulation) of the Cam is the trick. I always found starting out on new region playing the 1st city is the most difficult part or the game myself. Though that may come down to my playing style, the doozers aren't very good farmers 


Camified and up graded about 20 existing regions. Just have to take the time to cycle through the cities in a region, at least 5 years, more often than not 15-20 years for the cities to adjust to the new drivers and the cities to adjust to the shifting demands. Sometime the first little while you do see some negative effects in the cities as they adjust to the new demands, but in the long run actually found it easier to play from the demand of existing cities. CAM also if much more sensitive to taxes, pollution, land value, crime and EQ than Maxis old values. So you have to  mirco-manage you cities and be much more careful to watch what is going on. Believe some have gotten to use to the Maxis values, in which you could set up a city and walk away with the simulator running and watch TV for a bit and come back later and presto a city. Not so with the CAM, you have to stay on top of the city as it grows.

[jmyers2043]

Don't install CAM if you have a existing region.

That's not necessarily true. More rural regions or cities that are more realistic (not eye candy skyscrapper types) will adapt very quickly, oh say, within the month or two. So the word is not "don't". Rather, "be aware".  Be aware that your region of 10M+ population and huge monster cities will run somewhat unpredictably for a while. Until the simulator gets used to the new set of 'growth rules'. I would always back up a city like that before applying the CAM. 

I think you also have to be careful with all those tall plop buildings that distort the simulation and be mindful of conflicting mods. All this is covered in the various topics and discussion threads.