Three Rivers Region

[rhizome21]

David,

you just made my wildest sim city fantasy come true ! A world where there seasons are as real as ours, and when the landscape can really change over the course of the year. A real world in other words.

many many many thanks for that, and for what's to come...

jf

[Ryan B.]

Ah, Joan, you don't need an HD monitor to appreciate HD props . When we talk about HD props, we're meaning ones that aren't pixelated in Zoom 6. I don't know if you've seen the thread, HD Props and Textures - Discussion, but in there, the process is discussed. Basically the textures that the model uses in-game are the same for Zoom5 and Zoom6, so the HD process makes them twice as large, and therefore they look detailed in Zoom6 instead of all pixely. It has its downsides, but that discussion belongs in the linked thread.

Hope I've told you something you didn't already know. 

Joan (& everyone else who may be curious), here's a quick sample of standard definition vs. high definition:



High definition on the left, standard definition on the right.

[Jmouse]

Thanks, Ryan! I had no idea the results were so stunning since I've never seen a side-by-side comparison. Of course, now it's on my must-have list, as if I need to spend more money on computer stuff!

Later...
Joan

[wes.janson]

Thanks, Ryan! I had no idea the results were so stunning since I've never seen a side-by-side comparison. Of course, now it's on my must-have list, as if I need to spend more money on computer stuff!

Later...
Joan

You don't need to buy any new computer stuff. All that's happened is, EA released a tool that allows the game to recognize Zoom 6 textures at higher resolution than the standard 128 x 128 pixels (see: 256x256 or 512x512). The game textures are implemented as .fsh files and this new tool allows BATters to convert the higher resolution textures into .fsh files whereas before they couldn't. So.. unless you are BATing, you have nothing to worry about. All you have to do is enjoy the fruits of labor by the talented people who make this game continue to not only be playable, but enjoyale as well.

[threestooges]

Also, if you are BATting, it just requires a new file/script (as I understand) to make it render in HD, so nothing to worry about there either. The only thing to look out for is that HD props can tip the scales in terms of file size when the process is used with larger models. Hard to ignore the clarity of those signs though.

[Jonathan]

Actually EA did nothing, just the standard tools we've used like Sc4Tool have developer-set limits on the sizes.

[mightygoose]

we as a community just assumed that because 128x128 was native to the game it was the largest that was possible.

[dedgren]

We are getting pounded by a late-season snowstorm.



Glad I've already bought next year's firewood.



* * *

No, I haven't stopped playing SC4...

I am working on all the different combinations of seasonal ploppable trees I need for finished collaboration quads.  Almost done,





This stuff just takes a while.

Later.


David

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[scott1964]

Snow? What snow. 

[mayorfabz]

Oh my. Snow. We haven't seen snow for almost 6 weeks here in Montreal. It has been such a miserable winter I haven't been able to ski this year.
I could seriously envision a move to Alaska...

SPECIAL April 27th EDIT:

HEY! THANKS FOR THE EFFORT !



It is now snowing in Montreal! I don't know how you did this, you must be some sort of Santa Claus. It probably won't be enough for a ski-ride, but i still appreciate the effort.

Have a nice spring

Fabien

[dedgren]

I just keep putting along...









I keep getting sidetracked- the darker fall foliage aspen, the one in the rear of the grove on the right, was Brian's (c.p. aka cycledogg) original.  I hand-tinted the FSH files in PSP to the brighter yellow color that the aspens that grow in my memories display.



So there you have it.

I hope to have all the seasonal trees we're going to use in 3RR collaboration completed tomorrow.  I have to get up at 4:00 a.m. to get Heather to the airport, so we'll see.

Later.


David

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[ShultzCity]

This is brilliant David, I cannot get over the fact that I will be able to use ploppable seasonal trees...   

I have to ask though - Is having seasonal terrain textures feasible? Maybe above a certain altitude, in winter there is snow (which would go with the seasonal ploppables), and in Summer a grassy highlands type texture. I just think it would be odd having either winter type trees in nice green pastures, or summer type trees on a snowy landscape...

EDIT:  Stay tuned, my friend.  I'll be talking about that in a post coming up soon. -DE

[dedgren]

Probably my favorite deciduous tree.

Anyway, check out the attached ploppable seasonal set.  You'll need to DL Brian's (c.p. aka cycledogg) originals from the LEX as a dependency [linkie] along with the 3RR-CP set also attached below.

Enjoy!


David

613940

[rooker1]

Fantastic work on all the seasonal trees.
SC4 is truly a different game today from what is was in the begining....or even just a few years ago.  Imagine where we might be next year...anyways thanks for all your hard work.

Robin 

[nekseb]

Hi David, nice work again!

Every time I read "Aspen" I ask me, what kind of tree is this? 

So I search a little on the web and find this (for all who can understand the german language):

Zitterpappel (Aspe, Espe)

Vorkommen:
Über fast ganz Europa verbreitet (nördl. Grenze 71. Grad n.B., in den Alpen bis 1300m hoch), ferner in Nordafrika und Asien (bis China und Japan). Waldbaum in Gesellschaft mit anderen Laubhölzern. In baltischen Ländern und Polen mit Birke und Erle große Bestände bildend; bei uns zumeist nur als Vor- und Unterholz, Pionierbaumart auf Kahlflächen.

Baumbild:
Erreicht Höhen von 25-30m und Durchmesser von 50-100cm bei Stammlängen bis 15-20m im Bestand. Mit geradem, vollholzigem Stamm und rundlicher, lichter Krone. Rinde lange Zeit glatt, gelblich-grau, im Alter längsrissig, schwarzgrau, mit rautenförmigen Korkwülsten. Bis etwa 100 Jahre alt werdend.

Blätter:
Eiförmig bis kreisrund, gebuchtet und unregelmäßig stumpf gezähnt. 3-8cm breit und lang, oberseits lebhaft grün, unterseits hellgrün. Blätter der Ausschläge bis 15cm lang, eiförmig. Stiele lang und zusammengedrückt; bereits bei geringster Luftbewegung flatternd (,,Zittern wie Espenlaub").

Aspe (Zitterpappel) Quelle: Hempel u. Wilhelm, Wien

From now I know it! 

[RickD]

David, great work with the seasonal stuff. I don't use the seasonal trees at the moment because there is not much variety but this seems to change dramatically now.

@nekseb: Thanks for posting the german explanation on the aspen trees. I did not know them before either. I don't think they grow where I live.

[Andreas]

There are Aspen trees in Germany, but usually, they don't look like those in North America, because they're two different species (Populus tremula = European Aspen, Populus tremuloides = American Aspen). Poplars cross-breed with similar poplar species easily, so you're probably used to Grey Poplars (Populus × canescens; a P. alba (White Poplar) × P. tremula hybrid) and Canadian Poplars/Black Hybrid Poplars (Populus × canadensis, a P. nigra (Black Poplar) × P. deltoides (Eastern Cottonwood) hybrid) - and of course the Lombardy Poplars, which is a male clone of a Black Poplar that has very narrow branches, creating the shape of a column.

All information courtesy to Wikipedia, as always a great source of knowledge.

[ldvger]

Andreas, will you matty me? 

Just kidding of course, my way of saying how impressed I am by anyone who shares my geeky love of trees.  I was going to post a si,ilar note to yours, but you beat me to it!

David, aspens are very pretty trees, I have to agree.  Of the poplar family, I have to admit to loving the Lombardys the best.  So tall and slender and stately, and here in farm country almost always planted in long single or double rows as windbreaks.  All the poplars have a silvery blush to the undersides of thier leaves, which makes them seem to shimmer when the leaves flutter in the breeze and being as how most poplar family leaves are small and thin, it doesn't take much of a breeze to set them aflutter.  You probably have lots of alders in Alaska, as we have here in Washington...they are also a member of the poplar family, although I tend to think of them as "weed trees".  Cottonwoods are also poplars...it's a fairly large family.  The White poplar Andreas mentions is another favorite of mine, but we don't see many of them here, which is too bad (to my mind).  The biggest problems with poplars of any variety is that they are messy trees in the landscape.  Tons of leaves, which being small and thin makes them hard to clean up.  The leaf stems also usually drop in the fall, separately from the leaves themselves, so you also get tons of teensy little dried up mini-twigs all over the place.  In the spring, poplars are heavy pollen producers, creating little "cones" which, after they release thier pollen, also dry up and fall off the tree, creating more mess.  Poplars are also prone to pest, especially tent catepillars.  So all in all, which they are a pretty family, I don't generally recommend them in a yard-style landscape.

Lora/LD

[dedgren]

You just had to be there, I guess...




David

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[dedgren]

I couldn't let the day go by without wishing our great friend Lora (ldvger) the happiest of birthdays.

Those of you who've followed 3RR over the years knows that Lora was the inspiration for what 3RR has become- I've told the story before [linkie], but it bears repeating here.

So, why are we here?

I mean that, seriously.  With respect to 3RR, there actually is an answer.  And, behind the answer, a single 3RR Regular^* who is responsible.

You may recall a few posts ago I noted my prediction made almost two years back in 3RR-ST that 3RR was a "dead end" [linkie].

What changed over the following month?- because, by mid-October, 2006, we were well into terraforming our current 256 quads.  It, as you will see, was a post by a 3RR Regular named Lora (ldvger), who, on September 10, 2006, said the following.

09/10/2006 11:58 PM

ldvger Local Yokel Posts: 127 Joined: 04/06/2003

I've just found your CJ because of my quest to learn how to create realistic above ground running water.  You have some great tips and ideas here, but your above ground running water seems to flow mostly across fairly flat ground.   I have created and massively hand terraformed a region that was a CJ until I ran into this stumbling block of streams and rivers and lakes above game sea level.  My CJ has been on hold for almost a year and I long to get back to it.  If you have the time, check out my CJ "Apocrypha".  This is very challenging terrain not only to build on but also to create naturalistic waterforms across.   I have read twice through your tutorial about how to create naturalistic above sea level water features and think I am beginning to get the hang of the concept, although I have not yet attempted your techniques in my CJ region.  Your use of a single species of trees along a watercourse I find especially inovative in areas where actual creation of water the game does not allow.   I have one major question for you.  I noticed that in your tutorial (Update #10) that you have your road in place before you create your stream.  It is my thought to continue to develope the natural landscape of my region prior to placing anything "built", including roads.  My thought being, to build my communities around the existing natural features of the landscape, just as happens in RL.  And so I woul;d lioke to be able to bridge streams and rivers after the fact, depending on how my communities grow, rather than trying to plan everything out to the "nth" degree ahead of time. I tend to see my regions and cities as entities that grow beyond my control, but with my guidance...I let the game engine prompt me in many ways.  But...as "God", I want to create the landscape upon which my cities grow, including surface water.  Once the natural landscape is complete, I let the game pretty much run the way it will. Any tips you could provide would be very much appreciated...I really long to get back to the development of my CJ.  PM me if you can or reply here if you can...I'll be checking back

Now, I've highlighted in bold text on yellow what Lora said that for some reason had simply not occurred to me before.  It took a few days to sink in, too.  About a week later, I responded.

09/15/2006 08:06 AM

dedgren Patriot Trixie Winner 2007 Posts: 1463 Joined: 06/24/2004

So here's the one thing I did- the response to Lora's (ldvger - Apocrypha) couple of posts concerning surface water, waterways and modeling the Alaskan terrain made over the last couple of days. __________________________ So, Lora: You’ve left two comments that really caught my attention over the past few days. The first was on 9/10 and started I've just found your CJ because of my quest to learn how to create realistic above ground running water. You have some great tips and ideas here, but your above ground running water seems to flow mostly across fairly flat ground. I have created and massively hand terraformed a region that was a CJ until I ran into this stumbling block of streams and rivers and lakes above game sea level. My CJ has been on hold for almost a year and I long to get back to it. If you have the time, check out my CJ "Apocrypha". This is very challenging terrain not only to build on but also to create naturalistic waterforms across. Wow, just as you note in your subsequent post, flattery will get you everywhere. Let’s parse the issues, both here and in the following ‘grafs… … your above ground running water seems to flow mostly across fairly flat ground. First and foremost, the Edmonton Ploppable Water [ linkie to DL ] I use in 3RR is not my creation. It’s that of a brilliant ST member named brtim2. I just had, through 3RR, a hand in making this great addition to the game more widely known. All credit for doing the hard work, though, belongs to him. A second very important point is that, absent some huge unanticipated discovery, there is no ability to create above ground flowing water in SC4... ...wait a minute, what about using the Rain mod? I've commented on the limitations associated with using Teirusu's "Rain mod" from his Extra Terrain Tools [ linkie to DL ] elsewhere in 3RR (that's a gentle way to say that I can't find where I did that right now and I'll update with a specific reference when I do).  Suffice it to say here that, among others, the Rain mod will not create water that will flow "downhill." Edmonton Ploppable Water is static. It doesn’t "flow" anywhere. This "game" limitation is a shame, but there is nothing we can do about it right now. Like many other things we do in SC4, ploppable water is a compromise– but the best we can do at the present time. Now, as for flowing best across mostly flat ground, I disagree. I demonstrated in the following pic   that ploppable water can be placed on substantially steep slopes [ linkie to general discussion of characteristics of ploppable water ]. I have to ask, if the slopes you’re talking about are that steep, wouldn’t you want to use a succession of ploppable rapids lots in any event? I will say that I am in complete agreement as to your desire to build "naturalistic waterforms." It is my opinion that such make a huge contribution to the credibility of the terraforming in a given region. Watersheds, and the canyon, gorge and valley landforms that make them up along with the rivulets, creeks, streams, and rivers that flow through them are fundamental to the creation of realistic terrain. I have read twice through your tutorial about how to create naturalistic above sea level water features and think I am beginning to get the hang of the concept, although I have not yet attempted your techniques in my CJ region. Your use of a single species of trees along a watercourse I find especially inovative in areas where actual creation of water the game does not allow. Thanks for the kind words as to my use of "fool the eye" techniques [ linkie ]. While I have only used in 3RR trees to denote waterways that look like the black spruce we find so commonly here in Alaska, I have experimented with other ploppable trees and achieved what I believe to be equally convincing results. I think that the use of this technique is a significant tool in the hands of a dedicated terraformer. I have one major question for you. I noticed that in your tutorial (Update #10) that you have your road in place before you create your stream. It is my thought to continue to develope the natural landscape of my region prior to placing anything "built", including roads. My thought being, to build my communities around the existing natural features of the landscape, just as happens in RL. And so I woul;d lioke to be able to bridge streams and rivers after the fact, depending on how my communities grow, rather than trying to plan everything out to the "nth" degree ahead of time. I agree with you wholeheartedly, Lora. Were I to do it all over again, I would complete all but the very finest level of terraforming detail in 3RR before I would build the first road or highway. You are exactly right- the entire natural environment comes before the first thing is created in the built environment. It is interesting, in light of my professional history, that you make this point in the way that you have. Back in my professional planner days, I had my first after grad school job as a regional planner for the planning department of St. Lawrence County, New York (SLC is the enormous pie-wedge shaped county along the Canadian border just south of the St. Lawrence River [ linkie ]). When I arrived, one of the tasks at hand facing the department was to update the county master plan that had been developed during the 1970s. One of the idiosyncrasies of the old plan that folks in the very businesslike early 1990s absolutely hated was that the county planner at the time the 70s plan was developed decided to completely disregard political and other manmade boundaries. Instead, his vision of a master plan for the county was founded on…you guessed it…the county’s various watersheds. The thing read like a Whole Earth Catalog [ linkie ] right down to the graphics, but it was really, in my view, pretty good… From a tech standpoint, it is entirely possible to lay out ploppable water before you lay the first road. You’ll lose a little superdetailing work when you create "land" bridges over PW streams, but that’s a small price to pay. As I said, that’s how I’d do it again. I tend to see my regions and cities as entities that grow beyond my control, but with my guidance...I let the game engine prompt me in many ways. But...as "God", I want to create the landscape upon which my cities grow, including surface water. Once the natural landscape is complete, I olet the game pretty much run the way it will. You’ve probably figured out that, if I were "God," I’d exercise my power a lot more like Robert Moses [ linkie ] than Verplanck Colvin [ linkie ]. I do love freeways. Any tips you could provide would be very much appreciated...I really long to get back to the development of my CJ. PM me if you can or reply here if you can...I'll be checking back. Whatever I can do to help, Lora- I’m Your Man [ linkie ]. On 9/11, you followed up Wow, I am flattered! And, being flattered, will of course be patient and check back often. I am hoping you had time (or will find time) to visit Apocrypha and take a quick gander at the terrian I am trying to bring watercourses to. Apocrypha is hypothetically situated in Alaska (and is terraformed from a RL Alaskan river delta system), so you may be able to give me pointers on which "water" trees to use to create the impression of watercourses smaller that ploppable water will allow me to lay down in game. As I’ve noted, Alaska has a particular tree, the black spruce, that are associated with riverbanks and the presence of water generally, especially as one heads north out of the discontinuous permafrost soils that mark southern Alaska and the area near where I currently live. Alaskan black spruce are generally fairly small (less than 20’/6m in height, although some can be up to 40'/12m), are generally almost perfectly "Christmas Tree" shaped, with branches spreading only about 6-8’/~2m at the base uniformly tapering to a pointy tip at the top of the tree. The needles are a dull dark green, hence the name, as the trees look black from any distance. They frequently grow close together along stream banks and lake shores- I’ll try to get some pictures as I head back this afternoon.  UPDATE:  (9/16/06)  No pics on the way back, sad to say.  Rained most of the way and low clouds would have made for rotten photos. Alaska also has several other varieties of trees commonly found- cottonwood, "tag" alder, willow and birch. None of these, however, are near so associated in my mind with banks and shorelines as black spruce. The pics I posted of the drive up to Fairbanks show forests of these trees as they commonly appear throughout the state in all but southeast and south-central coastal Alaska, where larger spruce and pines dominate, and in tundra areas, where the high ground water levels perched on top of the permafrost pretty much prevents any tree growth at all. One of the cycledogg ploppable trees jeronij created (the one with the whitish trunk- I think it is labeled "Aspen") would do a fairly passable job as representing stands of Alaskan birch or small alder or cottonwood, as the bark of these latter two trees up here is light silver-green in color. You’ve now got me planning, over the next bit, to experiment with some ploppable tree combinations in order to see what I come up with- I’ll keep you posted. You wouldn't by any chance have any interest in trying to create very small watercourses, would you? I know nothing of batting or modding, but it has crossed my mind that us fans do have the means and tools to create creeks and even rivulets, should we put our collective minds to it. Just a thought... I’ve actually done a set of these, along the lines of folks who’ve created forest paths and such. I set them aside when it seemed that there were just too many tile variants to be practical on a menu. I’ll dig them out once I’m home and do a post to let you and others who might be interested have a look at them. They may actually be just what you’re looking for, and as I created the custom textures involved, I have no problem just distributing them as an attached file. I don’t think they are STEX material. And, don't feel bad in saying no. I am an architect with a very small but busy practice in Seattle and SC4, as much as I love it, is only something I can allow myself to spend time with a couple of hours a week. My CJ died both from lack of above ground water as much as the interference of RL, something I know you can relate to. Hey, who’s saying no? Odd aside- I entered University of Kentucky in 1970 in that school’s 5 year B.Arch program. Second year studio convinced me I wasn’t fated to be an architect- I received a final project back with a very low grade and the comment, "While you are the best model-maker in the class, I detect little aptitude for making any other contribution to the profession." I changed my major shortly thereafter, then wound up dropping out altogether and getting drafted… …but that’s another story. Looking forward to hearing from you again, Lora. Take care.   David signature D. Edgren ________________

Once again, I've spotlighted the important part in bold text on yellow.  It took me a little more than than a month from that first flash of insight to get to here.

10/27/2006 03:42 PM

dedgren Patriot Trixie Winner 2007 Posts: 1457 Joined: 06/24/2004

like I said... ...I have a plan... ...and here's a teaser (meaning I'm still thinking it through) as to what the plan will be. My intention is to completely terraform the region first.  That will include fairly well thought through placement of particular types of trees, placement of all ploppable water, rapids and waterfalls, and lake, river and stream shoreline detailing.  I'm estimating about a month to do this. This intention is based on the following exchange, back about a month ago in this post [ linkie ] with Lora (ldvger - apocrypha).  She had asked in a previous comment [ linkie ] I have one major question for you. I noticed that in your tutorial (Update #10) that you have your road in place before you create your stream. It is my thought to continue to develope the natural landscape of my region prior to placing anything "built", including roads. My thought being, to build my communities around the existing natural features of the landscape, just as happens in RL. And so I woul;d lioke to be able to bridge streams and rivers after the fact, depending on how my communities grow, rather than trying to plan everything out to the "nth" degree ahead of time. I responded I agree with you wholeheartedly, Lora. Were I to do it all over again, I would complete all but the very finest level of terraforming detail in 3RR before I would build the first road or highway. You are exactly right- the entire natural environment comes before the first thing is created in the built environment. Little did I know that the opportunity to follow through would come so soon... So, as an aside, thanks, Lora!  You've had a hand in shaping the future of 3RR. After the terraforming is completed, I would develop a basic plan for the development of the region: such things as locate the urban and suburban city areas, outlying towns and villages, and place the skeleton of a pre-freeway era road system.  I'd also place main rail lines. Then I would open 3RR to you- With some fairly specific development guidelines (a set of common appearance standards and a well-thought through plug-in list at a minimum, there are many other things I will think of between now and then) I will solicit readers to undertake developing one or more quads within a reasonable timeframe.  If I found 50 folks and each developed two quads, that would represent major progress in a fairly short time.  I'd say by next spring 3RR would be well along, if such a collaborative approach would work out. Now, if you're inclined to be interested in being involved in this, let me know... ...once, please... ...and I'll start a list.  Then watch 3RR for progress toward the point where quad development would start, at which point you'll hear from me. That's the plan for now- it may change, but I like the idea. _____________________ Finally, where we are at with initializing the quads. We're getting there, slowly but surely. Later. signature D. Edgren ________________

So there you have it.  A month, of course, has turned into almost two years.  But Lora's wisdom shines through, and is about to come completely to fruition in the form of the final step- collaboration.

Heh!  Two years... now it's almost four.  But it's happening, folks.  It's happening.

* * *

As I have only had the pleasure of meeting Lora, along with the rest of you, in cyberspace, I'll share the picture of her that I carry around in my head every time I see her nic show up on these pages.



...you're probably glad it's not your birthday, aren't you?...

* * *

A birthday wouldn't be complete without a something to unwrap, so Lora, here's the latest batch of seasonal trees, elms, and white and burr oaks.  I dedicate them to you, as it's not likely we ever would have wound up here had it not been for those posts almost four years ago.

A little oak eye candy.

Summer


Fall


Winter


And a seasonal mix.







These are attached to the bottom of this post for your use and enjoyment.  Remember that you need to DL the additional files noted at the bottom of this post [linkie] if you haven't already, to include Brian's (c.p. aka cycledogg) original models from the link noted.

Later.


David

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