R$$$ and I-HT Desirability serious problems

[CAA_4]

Hi! I have some problems with the high wealth residential and high tech industry, desirability is low and I don't know to how to push up, I have build parks, landmarks, a lot of hospitals, schools, police stationts... desirability goes up when i build these buildings, but inmediately (few months later) goes down to previous value in the area where i put these builidings. The demand of R$$$ and I-HT are very high, R$$$ building growth up rarely, but few months later the occupancy of this building goes down to 30-40% I have a neighbour city of this, and have good desirability (not perfect, but well), and both are so similar, he have similar commute time, water and air pollution, garbage 0 (evidently), good services, a lot of parks... The only difference of both (without count  desirability) are the mayor rating, but this is more disconcerting, because the mayor rating in the good desirability city is about 50-60, but the mayor rating of the bad desirability city is in 100, the top value. Someone knows what the possible problem of this? I have the NAM and CAM installed, and more somethings. I thought that the problem was the Commute time, and I change some values of traffic simulator, the commute time have gone down sensibly, (from 12 to 2-3), but problem persists, desirability is the same, R$$$ and I-HT haven't any development.

[xxdita]

Can you get a screenshot of the Census Repository Query? That would help know better what's going on in your city & region as a whole.

[CAA_4]

here's the screenshot:



Thanks for the interest.

[Indisguise]

does seem odd you having such low R$$$ and HT numbers. demand is actually very high despite, good EQ and not even near the cap, taxes lowered. what are the numbers like in the other city as per RES breakdown between R$'s, R$$'s and R$$$'s  ?

A: Not sure why you would have a 100% MR in the other city and only 40-60% in this one, could it be your using a modded plopable lot or some other mod in the city that would affect the MR ? I don't think I ever actually had a 100% MR in a non-moded city before myself . Could you could be using a mod that not a CAM friendly mod of some sort thats affecting growth ?

B: Noticed that there is a small amount of dirty IND in the city, is this closeby the area your trying to grow HT-IND or maybe some sort of power plant or sanitation building or zoning, thats producing air or water pollution. ( eg waste fill zone or  recycling centre) if so they would kill the chance of HT growing in the area, their a big nimby effect on HT. I'll assume the area is watered correctly.

Are there parks in the IND zone area itself ? My game I won't get any HT growth without a park closeby in the zone itself, reguardless of demand. I usually use flower garden parks in HT area myself, plop a couple down see if that sparks growth.

Could be your experiencing the Cam workforce bug, it would explain the RES drop off, but not the IND drop off. Though the high number of CO jobs might be affect IND growth.

Check the cities tax rate vs surrounding cities tax rates, if a city (s) closeby have a lower tax rate in R$$$ and HT brackets, could  be the game noticing this and they wander off to the other city. That sort of stretch though.

Also noticed that you have a large amount of comuters to sim nation. Could be a problem with eternal comuters. Would need a screen shots of traffic view to confirm this

Sometime I found that cutting off almost all traffic flow in and out of a city sometimes sparks growtrh inside of city. just cut the line to rail and city to city roads and highways making them dead ends but leaving the connections for later re-attachment. This basicly forcing the sims that live in the city to work there and to make the city grow Sims to fill the job that are vacated by the lack of comuters.

[CAA_4]

does seem odd you having such low R$$$ and HT numbers. demand is actually very high despite, good EQ and not even near the cap, taxes lowered. what are the numbers like in the other city as per RES breakdown between R$'s, R$$'s and R$$$'s  ?

A: Not sure why you would have a 100% MR in the other city and only 40-60% in this one, could it be your using a modded plopable lot or some other mod in the city that would affect the MR ? I don't think I ever actually had a 100% MR in a non-moded city before myself . Could you could be using a mod that not a CAM friendly mod of some sort thats affecting growth ?

B: Noticed that there is a small amount of dirty IND in the city, is this closeby the area your trying to grow HT-IND or maybe some sort of power plant or sanitation building or zoning, thats producing air or water pollution. ( eg waste fill zone or  recycling centre) if so they would kill the chance of HT growing in the area, their a big nimby effect on HT. I'll assume the area is watered correctly.

Are there parks in the IND zone area itself ? My game I won't get any HT growth without a park closeby in the zone itself, reguardless of demand. I usually use flower garden parks in HT area myself, plop a couple down see if that sparks growth.

Could be your experiencing the Cam workforce bug, it would explain the RES drop off, but not the IND drop off. Though the high number of CO jobs might be affect IND growth.

Check the cities tax rate vs surrounding cities tax rates, if a city (s) closeby have a lower tax rate in R$$$ and HT brackets, could  be the game noticing this and they wander off to the other city. That sort of stretch though.

Also noticed that you have a large amount of comuters to sim nation. Could be a problem with eternal comuters. Would need a screen shots of traffic view to confirm this

Sometime I found that cutting off almost all traffic flow in and out of a city sometimes sparks growtrh inside of city. just cut the line to rail and city to city roads and highways making them dead ends but leaving the connections for later re-attachment. This basicly forcing the sims that live in the city to work there and to make the city grow Sims to fill the job that are vacated by the lack of comuters.

Thanks for your interest.

I have a good quantity of plugins, but don't affect the mayor rating, because I've tried to destroy the city per parts trying to discover something to do this, and I haven't found any plop that cause this effect, desirability and mayor rating was the same.
The dirty industry has appeared not long ago, and the i-ht problems were before. I've destroyed these i-d buildings, but have not been resolved. I have a lot of parks in the I-HT zone for a long time, but doesn't do nothing.
The tax rates are the same in both cities.
CAM workforce bug? Can you tell me a bit about this? How to solve it?
But I think that I've discover the problem, I've saw that R$$$ desirability is higher in zones that traffic flow is low, not congestion or air pollution, the flow, because the most residential zone is near to the neighbour city, where there are high flow traffic, but very low pollution and inexistent congestion. I cut the neighbour traffic lines, and desirability goes up in borderline areas, althought not much. Also I changed some highways routes by avenues, and it improvement the desirability a bit.

I'll put some screenshots about two cities to compare it:

Census query of the good desirability city



R$$$ desirability

In "good" city


In "bad" city



I-HT desirability

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Land Value

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Air pollution

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Traffic volume

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Subway volume

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Commute time

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Traffic volume graph

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Other values

In "good" city


In "bad" city



Typical ndustrial zone

In "good" city. Combined I-M and I-HT. Not parks, only some woods.


In "bad" city. Non I-M industry, a lot of parks, woods, EL Rail. Bad development.

[Indisguise]

well first off might wanna lower the size of the pics, think there a limit to the size of them here, to save on pic loading time etc etc, 800x600 I believe is the size they don't want you to go above, but you have to check with a mod about that.

CAM workforce bug sort works like this, original game only about 50% of the RES were actually part of the workforce, but for some reason the CAM counts all RES as part of the workforce, there by forcing you to double up on COM and IND jobs, their currently working on a fix this in  the CAM 2.0, release date s sometime in the future, still in testing phase. Not sure on the release date. You have to check with Ripplejet about the actual numbers and particulars or  check out the CAM section in the BSC threads. Though this again might explain drop off on R$$'s but should have the opposite effect of HT IND.

It is true RES and HT hate congestion, specially the R$$$'s. When I get a city into use of subways I ussually start eliminating bus stops myself, find the sims use buses as a personel taxi servive and the # of buses on the road in dence cities starts to become a negative factor. Check the IND's comtue times for freight trip completion.  If it's med or long try to find ways to lower it. good way to do this is run rail lines through the IND and connect it to the edge of the map, in conjuntion with the use of freight rail stations, this speeds up freight connection, as rail is quicker and gets the freight trucks off the roads.

Might try zoning HT off in an undeveloped area or in a new city next door ,see if that sparks growth. Other possibilities could be the landvalue could be  actually too high for the HT, but thats sort of a stretch, possible sollutions drop the number of parks in the area see if that sparks growth. that combined with lowering the tax rates, say about a full or 1/2 %. As you go up in population the the game almost requires you lower your taxes. or open a new city and make it a special city just for ind.

Maybe it's the trees affecting the ind growth or the use of diagnal zoning  , personnely I don't use trees much myself and  tend to make larger ind zones. A few areas seems to be on angles  have trees in undeveloped zoned area.  can't see how it  is affecting but maybe it does

I do notice in large cities when you start getting population above 500K growth in the cities seems to stall for about 5-10 years, then a spurt of growth followed by a time of stagnation. the large the city gets the longer the time of stagnation maybe your just in one of them cycles  ?

[RippleJet]

My initial reaction upon seeing your images is that something has gone very wrong at some stage in your city called Trente.
The best indication of this is in the city's Major Rating.

Those desirability factors which affect the major rating the most, are largely the same which also affect the desirability of R$$$ and IHT; pollution and crime.
If those desirabilities are all red, you couldn't have a major rating of 100%.

I have myself had a very similar situation, where the desirability for everything $$$ just kept dropping, regardless what I did.
I never managed to overcome those problems, and in the end had to blow up the whole city.

You might want to Ctrl-Alt-Shift-query one of those dilapidated IHT lots though,
and check the Query.txt file to see what the exact desirability factors are (post the content of that file here as well).

CAM workforce bug? Can you tell me a bit about this? How to solve it?

Read Where are my residents!!! (including the fine print) for more infomation about it.

In your case it is probably affecting residential growth, due to the fact that the regional residential capacity as reported is very close to the projected demand (regional demand).
The regional projected demand is increased through extrapolation from other cities in the region:

Regional Extrapolated Demand

All census data is stored with each city's savegame file.
Now, while playing a city, inactive connected cities can satisfy this city's demand with their unused zone capacities,
but only to the tune of 10% of their existing populations and only if the demand cannot be satisfied in the city being played itself.

At the end of each month, demand not satisfied by building construction in the city being played is tossed to other cities in the Region.
When returning to another city in the region, in which such extrapolation has occurred, the presumed growth will sprout.

Always when entering a city, give it some time to grow (10%) before leaving it.
Otherwise the extrapolated growth from the Region will be lost forever.

As far as other cities are concerned, when exiting a city that you haven't given enough time to grow,
the city played has lost its extrapolated growth and has actually shrunk in size, leading to recession and abandonment elsewhere.

Thus, whenever playing a city, make sure that you play it for a while in order not to loose any extrapolated demand.