CTRL-Arrow Up/Down Command

[Sorengaard]

Hi, I have a problem with using the CTRL-Arrow Up/Down Command (nudge object vertically) used in the Lot Editor.  The object moved looks fine in the front view but in the side views the object will be back in its original place.  This can place the object floating in the air, moved into the street, anywhere but where it should be.  So my question is whether I am doing something wrong or is this how this function works?  I would really like to be able to use the function more than I can because of this problem.  Any help would be appreciated.  Steve

[Andreas]

It looks like the prop was rendered with an offset. If this is your prop, re-render it after centering it in gmax. In case this comes from another developer, you could try to edit it with the SC4ModelTweaker by cogeo, as far as I know, this program allows you to enter the coordinates.

[Lowkee33]

To test if a prop is off-set you should place it on the ground at some sort of corner and rotate it.  The base of the prop will move if it is off-set (off-center).  Good examples are various trees that dont stay in their planter at different angles.

It could also be that the prop was not placed correctly in LE.  That looks like the shadow of the overhang behind the white car.  SC4 has no perspective, and If I would guess the prop is very high and centered dashed lines of the road. 

[Sorengaard]

Thanks for the response.  I don't know what rendering is.  Is there any information about that and how to go about re-rendering? Also is the prop or the building needing to be re-rendered? As to how the prop was placed, I put it up against the building and then used the Control Command to raise it so it would be high enough to cover the door correctly.  When I do that it moves the prop (canopy) into the street but when you look at it it appears against the building the way I want it to.  Hope that made sense.  Again thanks for the response.  Steve

[Andreas]

If you don't know what rendering is, then it's most likely not your prop indeed. As I said, it appears that the prop is off-centered (do what Lowkee33 suggested to find out), then it needs to be edited. If this sounds more like rocket science for you, then tell us which prop pack or which download contains this prop, maybe someone can have a look and correct the issue.

[Sorengaard]

Ok, I checked the prop as Lowkee suggested and that is not the problem.  Here is a clearer picture of what is going on.  Hope it makes sense.  Prop 1 in the front pic is placed right on the edge of the building.  Prop 2 has been raised by 5 and it moves halfway under the building.  Prop 3 has been raised by 10 and it goes completely under the building.  When I move it back it goes just how I want it to, covering the entire doorway.  But the side view shows the props all in a different position.  None of them are any longer against the edge of the building. These pics are just one example but not isolated. This also happens with other props as well.  As I said before I have had people floating in the air, lights moved, trees moved, and I am sure it isn't the prop.  The building and lot both seem to rotate to me ok so I don't know if it is a rendering problem with them or not.  Is there a simple definition of what rendering means in this context so at least I know what I am talking about?  If it has to do with Gmax or BAT then I will just have to live with it since I am wandering blind when it comes to being able to build. However, if there is something that I could do that would be nice as well.  Again thanks for the help.  Steve

[Andreas]

You have been fooled by perspective, and the screenshot also shows that the building doesn't have custom LODs, as it doesn't allow to place props closely to the walls, which is probably what you wanted to do in the first place.

But you can figure out what's going on with having a closer look at the "tiles" below the building (the base texture of the lot). Check prop #1 first - the shadow clearly showes that the prop has to be moved further towards the wall - at the moment, it#s still a few feet away, and there's a gap in the shadow between the awning and the wall. If you move the prop closer to the door, I bet #2 happens: half of the prop is "swallowed" by the wall, and it appears as if the awning would slip under the building.

Naturally, this is not true, it's just a perspective thingy. The prop gets cut off because the LODs of the building model (basically the invisible box where the textures of the buildings are projected onto). I figure you actually thought the prop would somehow disappear below the building, and then you tried to raise it, creating situation #3, which looks ok from this particular perspective. But you still have to think three-dimensional, if you change the view, you'll see that you didn't move the prop closer to the building, but the gap that existed before remains, and the prop is now floating in the air.

There is no real solution to your problem - the only fix would be to render the model with tight-fitting LODs again, but this is something only the creator of the BAT model can do. In this case, it would be best to make a lot without those awnings; they do look nice, granted, but they just won't go well with this building model. For emphasizing the entrance, use another method, like an overlay texture with a path that leads up to the door, some bushes or flowers along said path, and a lamppost here and there. As said before, due to the LODs, you won't be able to place props too closely next to the building, but with some trial and error, you should be able to create a convincing lot after all.

[Lowkee33]

It is always going to be tough to line a prop next to a building.  Buildings are actually small pieces that form the larger structure.  You can see in your first picture that awning #1 is both under the building and above it.

[Sorengaard]

Thanks for the great response.  Again to show my ignorance, what does "LODs" represent?  Also I used to have a list of all the Acronyms used on the site.  Would anyone know where I could once again locate that list? Thanks for the help. Steve

[Lowkee33]

@Andreas:  We can make props off-set that were not rendered as such?

Sorry to say you have got me confused now as well.  I believe when we move rectangles around in LE that we are moving the LOD.  As it is not to hard to change the size of those boxes, I think the LOD is something that is made at the end of rendering to define the center of the prop.

Rendering is basically the process of converting a model made in a 3d drawing program into something that SC4 can understand (I think).

So, when someone renders something off-set he/she is making the LOD far from the actual prop, and therefore we can place a fence along side a diagonal road, or place a boat way out into the water.

[Andreas]

@Sorengaard: All buildings and props in SimCity are just images that are "glued" to simple three-dimensional "boxes". Think of it as if you'd make a picture of each side of your house, then take a cardboard box and glue the pictures on the four sides. SimCity does the same, just from another angle. If a building (or a prop) is not a perfect box anyway, the LOD is an invisible deviating from the perfect box shape. The rest of the box is transparent, but you still aren't able to put any objects in between this space (as if you'd put the model inside a fish tank that is just large enough to hold it, but naturally, you can't put anything closer than the glass panes).

As an example, see this pic, taken from the SC4PIM thread. The yellow box marks the LOD (Level of Detail), whereas the actual building has a more complicated shape:



@Lowekee33: What we can do is editing the coordinates of the LODs, so the whole "fish tank" with the affixed "pictures" of the building (or prop) is moved off the center coordinates (or the other way round for a model that is accidentially off-centered). Rendering a gmax model with the BAT is nothing more than putting a camera to a defined angle (as if you were on a plane or a helicopter) and taking a picture from that particular angle. This is repeated for all rotations and zoom levels, and the pictures are projected at the very same angle on said "fish tank" (aka the LODs) in the game.

If you'd tilt the walls of the tank, the pictures would get distorted (you can see this if you rotate a model in the Reader preview). This is why you only can edit the object as a whole, once it's rendered, such as changing the dimensions, moving it around from a center, and rotating it in 90 degree steps, like the camera was rotated to render the views before.

[Sorengaard]

I actually understand now what you have explained.  A credit to your detailed response.  Many thanks for the time, help, and information.  Steve