RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[Tarkus]

The wide radius curves?

They are set up a bit differently--the texture IIDs don't really correspond to the actual IIDs on the segments because they were designed in the RHW 1.x-era and there's a lot of re-use involved. 

They're also oriented differently.  The straight segments are all vertical as opposed to horizontal.

The textures all reside in the 0x5E14A### range, with 000-334 belonging to the RHW-4 Double (45-degree) Curve.  The Inner and Outer Curves share textures with the Double Curve wherever possible--non-shared textures for the outer curve are in the 4## range, while the ones for the inner curve are in the 5## range.  600-744 covers the Lane Shift.  There will be a "Dual Lane Shift" in Version 4.2 that resides in the 80A-A4E range.

Regarding the ranges of the actual pieces, the Double (45-Curve) Curve resides in 0x5E14B### (the three end digits match the texture IIDs), the Outer Curve in 0x5E14C### (the three end digits match the texture IIDs, except the 1## column grabs from A4##), the Inner Curve in 0x5E14D### (the three end digits match the texture IIDs), the Outer Curve in 0x5E14C### (the three end digits match the texture IIDs, except the 0## column grabs from A5##) and the Lane Shift in 0x5E14E### (0## column grabbing from A6##, 1## column grabbing from A7##).  The Dual Lane Shift, when added, will match its texture IIDs directly.

Hope that helps!

-Alex

[Biriali]

Once again you have helped me, Alex. Thank you 
I have created a new mod, that adds street lights to the RHW-4 curves. I will upload it to the STEX as soon as simtropolis comes online again.

[Twyla]

First off....


The work you guys do is positively awesome!!  Even as a writer, I can't find a word that sufficiently quantifies the awesomeness.
(Support goes both ways, don't it? )


Part the next:

I noticed a few key pieces (which I expected to find included) missing from the latest distribution:
~ RHW-10 -> RHW-6/RHW-4 Splitter (similar to the included RHW-8/Dual RHW-4 Splitter)
~ RHW-8 -> RHW-6/RHW-4 Splitter Ramp (similar to the RHW-6/Dual RHW-4 Splitter Ramp)
~ RHW-10 -> RHW-8/RHW-4 Splitter Ramp (see above)
~ RHW-10 -> Dual RHW-6 Splitter Ramp (see above)
Also that the Fractional pieces include all the components for offsets, but lack the parts to complete gradual curved sections.  And, in the cosmetic pieces, the lane reduction markers lack the tighter dash options that the exit lane markers have.

Sorry if I sound picky - former truck driver, so I've seen a LOT of highway!


Part the third:

It was extremely disappointing to discover how limited the ERHW possibilities are - though, in all fairness, I fully understand why.  Also, having pushed rigs for over 2 million miles (that's 3.2 million km for the metric folk), I've seen pretty much every stretch of major roadway in the US (and parts of Canada).

With these thoughts in mind, I'd like to contribute my assistance in modeling (and perhaps texturing) components for expanding the RHW and its functionality.  I use Blender (which can export the models in .3ds format), so only need to know what parameters to shoot for (low-poly goes without saying).

Allow me a bit to finish fixing supper and I'll whip up a few for your consideration.


Twyla

[GDO29Anagram]

@Twyla: I can tell you're all fired up about the RHW.

Well,... Instead of just telling you, how about I show you a picture? Here's the RHW10 to RHW6S and RHW4 Ramp, made by another NAM Member.

I also made a chart of every possible ramp where RHW4 splits off, which didn't include 6C and 8C. (I can't seem to find the image, though...)

As of the FARHW pieces, I KNOW from months of lurking prior to the release of RHW Version 4.0 that there were a few pieces that didn't make it: The ones that go from FARHW to Diagonal being one of them. Sooner or later, they'll make a comeback. And I think I know what you mean; Using those kinds of pieces can make a curve far bigger (and far more gradual) than any Wide-Radius Curve can make.

As much as you're willing to contribute, you may want to wait for Tarkus or another "NAM Team" Member, not me, to give a proper reply. Progress has been rather slow, actually. (Real-life events to deal with, you know.)

[j-dub]

Well Twyla, if the project manager, Alex (Tarkus) likes you, the more developers the merrier.

I think the best way to explain the development of he Elevated RHW-4, is that it got a later start in development, the first interchangable version of the RHW lacked the creation of the El-RHW. As of now, the Elevated RHW-6 is still being just developed. For the ground RHW construction, new ramps have been made over time, as original ramps are just being created. Basically a bunch of stuff considered which includes other networks, all just has to be done on at some point later on, but only if possible. When someone else can not only offer their services but make that modding happen, its better for everyone else. Anyway though, if you still have any ideas that don't exist yet, you should have plenty of time to cook something up for us. The other thing is, as a truck driver Twyla, you most of all, have knowledge of the signage your suppose to see. At one time, the RHW had a separate add-on that installed EXIT ONLY signs and guard rails.

Some of the pieces Anagram showed had been asked a long time ago, before the capability was reality. The Y splits I remember the most. The very least, those pieces do have a yellow line for the North American region.

[Tarkus]

Thanks for the kind words and enthusiastic offer of assistance, Twyla!  As j-dub mentioned, the more the merrier, indeed, especially on the modeling front, where we really can use all the help we can get!

.3ds format works fantastically for SC4 transit modeling applications--the Reader, the main modding tool we use, allows for direct conversion both to and from .3ds to the SC4-native S3D (SimGlide3D) format.  The main things are that the models need to be kept to a roughly 500 polygon limit, they should be tileable and sliced into 16 meter x 16 meter segments (with the exception of some overhang pieces, which primarily affects the RHW-6S) and line up with the existing ERHW and ground-level RHW content.  We're actually able to port everything on the modding side from ground to elevated fairly quickly . . . as soon as there's models in place, much of the actual modding can be done by copy-paste. 

This thread might be somewhat useful . . . the fact that you're working in .3ds natively means you don't have to deal with all the gnarly rendering stuff with Gmax, fortunately, and makes the whole process considerably easier.

If you have any other questions regarding specifications or technical aspects, just let one of us know.  

-Alex

[Twyla]

One quick question of clarification:

In the referred thread, where it suggests a 500-poly limit....  is that 500 for the entire unit (say, the overpass) or 500 per 16x16 segment?

[Tarkus]

One quick question of clarification:

In the referred thread, where it suggests a 500-poly limit....  is that 500 for the entire unit (say, the overpass) or 500 per 16x16 segment?

It's per 16x16 segment. 

-Alex

[jibjohn]

Firstly i will share my appreciation of the network, the extent to which this mod improves road networks is incredible, and the dedication is quite inspiring.
Now like to say something maybe a little radical, as we know the rhw-6 overlays into the adjacent square (a square being 16mx16m), however when browsing through the uk's road geometry regulation (http://www.dft.gov.uk/ha/standards/dmrb/vol6/section1.htm) i noticed that the width of a three-lane section of rural motorway comes to 16.5m (not including the 1.5m verge), if you were willing to risk just a 2m central reservation this would easily fit inside a square, saving a lot of space. I also used my google earth ruler function to measure other 3-lane motorway sections and they all seemed to come to about 16m or slightly less. why is the rhw so wide? and how much effort would be needed to make a rhw-3 occupying only 1 square?

(if you want to see what I'm referring to its on page 25 of this: http://www.dft.gov.uk/ha/standards/dmrb/vol6/section1/td2705.pdf)

thanks for reading, John

[noahclem]

Hi jibjohn,

First off, you'll be happy to know that the next release of RHW will feature slightly narrower lanes. If you check out the development pics floating around in this thread you should get an idea of the expected changes. The new RHW-6S still has a small part of the outer lane and all of the shoulder overhanging the next tile. mrtnlrn is also developing some RHW pieces with 3 lanes that fit completely on one tile, though they're designed for merging lanes.

Part of why RHW is the width it is is that the scale in SC4 is generally considered off by about 10-15%, meaning that a motorway that was 16.5m wide in real life should be something closer to 18 or 19m wide in SC4. Also, I believe that RHW is more about flexibility and realism than conserving space so I wouldn't expect changes in the scale to be made for space-saving reasons.

[jibjohn]

thankyou noah for the hasty reply, i wasn't really aware of the 10-15% inaccuracy, however i may do a few little experiments to see a carrageway would look like, I'll post the results on here.

EDIT: this is the best i could come up with in a few minuets:



[sorry about the UK lane dividers i couldn't help myself ]

[Tarkus]

The other big thing is that geometry of the lanes is important . . . the RHW-6S is really needs to line up perfectly with the RHW-4 and is designed as such. Having the lanes swerve or narrow would result in some very awkward looking transitions and ramp interfaces.

I've just measured the new RHW-6S textures that will be in the next version of the mod, and the road width is exactly 18m.  The existing textures in the most recent public release measure 20.25m, so we've carved 2.25m off.

There will also be some "compact exit lane" cosmetic pieces that will have a smaller outer shoulder and a third exit-only lane on a single-tile without overhang in the next release.

While a more compact RHW-6 was discussed back in the RHW 2.0 days, there's never really been any serious consideration of it, and it's unlikely you'll see anything beyond the slimmed down 18m RHW-6S and the compact exit cosmetic pieces.

-Alex

[Twyla]

Just some US dimensional info, in case anyone is interested:

A typical highway represented by RHW-6C is comprised of:

• Six Travel Lanes: 12-foot Minimum Width (each)
• Two Shoulders (aka Break-Down Lanes): 14-foot Minimum Width (each)
• Median Divider (w/Inner Shoulders): 6 to 14 feet in Total Width

This puts the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM allowable total width for common stretches of such a highway at 106 feet (32.31 meters or 2 SC4 Tiles).  Due to safety reasons, very few areas (apart from dense urban areas) use these minimal widths.  The default Maxis Highways (Ground an Elevated) conform to this, and you'll also notice that the speed limits on such roadways are usual around 70% normal (or feature strict lane regulations).

A more common arrangement uses 16-foot Travel Lanes, 20-foot Shoulders, and a 16-foot Median; total of 152 feet (46.33 meters or 3 SC4 Tiles) - making the existing RHW-6C pretty much balls-on accurate.

I know some people are surprised by these dimensions, but they fail to consider that trucks also have to be taken into consideration.  A typical truck is 50% wider and 400% longer (8.5 feet wide and 85 feet long) than a typical car - and these are the everyday run-of-the-mill Common Carriers.  Specialty carriers (including Doubles, Triples, and Crawlers) typically run 100% wider and more that 60% longer (11 feet wide and 120+ feet long) than a car.  And let's not forget the Shanty Shakers with their 16-foot wide loads which can bring the total length to 170 feet or more!

[MandelSoft]

^^ For us metric people: multiply every measuring value with 0.3 and you get the idea how much these measurements would be in meters:

• Six Travel Lanes: 3.6m Minimum Width (each) or 21.6m in total
• Two Shoulders: 4.2m Minimum Width (each) or 8.4m in total
• Median Divider (w/Inner Shoulders): 1.8m to 4.2m in total width

And then you have about 31.8m in total as a minimum

The current RHW-6C has the following setup:

• Six Travel Lanes: 5.0m Minimum Width (each) or 30m in total
• Two Shoulders: 3.5m Minimum Width (each) or 7.0m in total
• Median Divider (w/Inner Shoulders): 8.0m in total width

So, the shoulders are actually UNDERdimensioned. Fortunately, the new v5.0 textures have wider shoulders and narrower lanes (4.0m or 4.5m instead of 5.0m).

[Twyla]

Waiting on a bit more info from Tarkus, but here's a preview of what I whipped up last night (only partially textured):


RGW-6C to ERHW-6C (Embanked Version)


Currently at 972 polys for the entire model, so there's plenty of room for detailing if desired.

[Twinsfan14]

 

That looks great, Twyla!

[MandelSoft]

972 is already way over the 500 poly maximum, so actually that might be a problem. Besides, embanked slopes can be achieved with On-Slope transistions and and earth ramp created with ground lifters, like this:

[Twyla]

972 is already way over the 500 poly maximum, so actually that might be a problem.

Tarkus said it was 500 per 16x16 section.  There's 21 total sections (averaging 46.29 polys per section - WELL BELOW 500).

[jdenm8]

972 is already way over the 500 poly maximum, so actually that might be a problem. Besides, embanked slopes can be achieved with On-Slope transistions and and earth ramp created with ground lifters, like this:

Remember BL's ERHW cosmetic mod? I've actually wanted something to fill in that gap underneath ever since I had to uninstall BL's mod.

Twyla is also correct, as long as the model is broken up into 16x16m sections and then each piece modded to appear individually on their respective tiles. If you're looking to attach it to one tile and do the rest via overhang, then you're waaaaaaaaay over the limit.

[MandelSoft]

Oh, my bad. I thought Alex (Tarkus) ment 16x16 tiles instead of 16x16 meter sections...