Only one side shown - Tips on trees modelling and rendering

[FromTheAshes]

Hi! As the title says, I've got a rendering-problem: Here are the 2 pictures, can you tell me, why only a few leaves are shown in the rendered version? (Force 2-sided is activated!)
And it's not becauso the leaves are black, same problem when i use textures

[jeronij]

If you are using GMAX there is no much you can do with the renderer 

I think the problem is due to the too complex geometry for such a small piece. You can try using planes with textures and alpha maps for the leaves. It would make the geometry less complex, as only one poly and only one texture would be needed.

[FromTheAshes]

Ah, so you think 3ds Max could handle this?
Thanks so far, but I really want to keep the model as it is 

[jeronij]

Well, 3DSMax allows a much better renderer control 

[callagrafx]

Tried flipping the normals? 

It's more than likely the shapes intersect themselves, creating a void face and therefore not renderable.  If you notice, the ones that render are the ones that are visibly purple in the scene view.  Jeroni's suggestion of alpha mapping to create the transparency is probably the most sensible.and it'd look as good.

Max's render engine is that much more advanced but when a face is flipped, no amount of clever software will produce the desired result.

[FromTheAshes]

jrj: Is there a way to make the model a bit "easier" for GMAX in the ONYX? I'm not really into that program so far, cause I got it for 2 hours yet 
callagrafx: Oh, right, forgot about the normals... I never cared about them  Well, I think I know a tutorial about normals... Else I gonna ask in this thread

[jeronij]

When you create the 3ds file to import into GMAX, you can decide the detail level by selecting / deselecting branches levels. Only Trunk, Bough and Branch 1 level are necessary for a render. Also deselect twigs, caps, stems, and whatever it wont be seen anyway in the game ( remember that the trees must be small to fit the game's scale)
There is also a foliage reduction option in the 3ds creation screen, where you can decrease the complexity of the leaves. The smaller the resulting file is, the best for the GMAX 

However, Onyx is a true resources devorator. In my P4 1.6 duo with 2GB RAM, I cant handle more than three or four trees in a MAX scene 

But, there is a plugin for the 3DStudio which allows to create the trees directly in the software, and you can use simplified geometry to create your scenes. Only when it comes to the render time, the trees will show all its geometry  . This makes secene creation much easier. But only for MAX 

[FromTheAshes]

Thanks for the tips, I'll test that out to improve the performence. The normale-thing helped, now everything is shown But it has such a "paper"-look (dunno how to call it), is that from the model itself, or do I have to change anything in gmax to get a nicer look?

[callagrafx]

Thanks for the tips, I'll test that out to improve the performence. The normale-thing helped, now everything is shown But it has such a "paper"-look (dunno how to call it), is that from the model itself, or do I have to change anything in gmax to get a nicer look?

Get a copy of 3DSMax 

Seriously, remember GMAX is a drastically cut-down version of 3DS Max from at least 3 years ago.  Texturing is the only way to really get it looking better.

[FromTheAshes]

Ok, a friend of my father got allways the newest programs for his job, I think I can get a quiet new version of the Max  So, all these great-lookin' trees are created in max you think? I like them havin' a "soft" touch, a bit blurry if you want so... For example in mbears mayor villa are many of them.

[jeronij]

To texture these models:

You should create two 3ds files from the original tree:

1  - with the trunk and branches geometry
2 -  with the leaves

Open a fresh GMAX file. Import the trunk geometry. Group it, or make it a single mesh if it isnt.
Apply a UV map and a nice trunk texture. Play with the UV map settings until you are satisfied with the trunk.
Freeze the trunk/branches
Now save the file.
Dont exit ¡¡¡
Import the leaves geometry.
Repeat the process as explained for the trunk/branches, to apply a nice texture
(If you dont touch anything, when you merge the 3ds they will fit perfectly)

The standar 3ds use plain colors. That is why it looks like paper 

[callagrafx]

And to expand on Jeroni's post, when you texture the leaves, find a nice texture with an alpha map that will soften the edges somewhat.  If you go to http://www.3dplants.com you may find some examples there.

[FromTheAshes]

But... They are allready textured So they look like textured paper
Does this process you explained add the blurry touch I was talkin' about?
Edit: Thanks callagrafx, I'll test that out.

[jeronij]

But... They are allready textured So they look like textured paper
Does this process you explained add the blurry touch I was talkin' about?

Well, technically they are not textured. Only a basic color is applied to the geometry 

This is the process I followed to create many of my trees. Of course, the textures you choose for the model, and the way you apply them is the key for a realistic result in SC4 

Btw, dont get discouraged iw what you see as a wonderful tree in GMAX, in the LE looks "different". Test it in game. It looks better that in the LE 

[FromTheAshes]

Ok, I can test that after I'm finished with this alpha-map-methode. And there I have got a problem right now. Unfortunately I don't really know which typa textures I may use...
I've tried it with these:


And it doesn't work at all. It's just gettin' a slime-green color, which has nothing to do with my texture anymore. And no blurry effect

[callagrafx]

Do the leaves have UV mapping?  The problem sounds like the UV mapping is trying to apply the leaf to a large area....try reducing the size of the map.

[FromTheAshes]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused now.
I don't know if that's a bit rude from me, sorry if it is, but could you pleeease write a short (but easy to understand) tutorial to show what exactly you mean? That'd be great. (Some pictures would be stunning as well )

[jeronij]

Check the firsts steps in this tutorial to see how to apply a texture with alpha map:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=930.0

I hope this helps 

[FromTheAshes]

Yep, I know this tutorial and I know how to use alpha maps on textures. What I don't know is, how I should involve UC mapping and stuff. I improvisted and filled the white space on my leave-texture with leaves (so the image was full of leaves) but unfortunatly it didn't work either

[jeronij]

Dont worry, and dont use alpha maps if you dont want to 

I made all my trees only using plain textures. You can use a normal leaf texture as the basis, and with PSP or Photoshop you can create a seamless texture, and apply it to the leaves mesh. It will work as well