new "real" Sim City in 2013

[Haljackey]

My hopes are high, and that's saying a lot.

The last game I had high hopes for was Starcraft II, and that was the last game I purchased

EDIT: All of Maxis's responses to Simcity Reddit IMA_AMA Q&As: http://www.reddit.com/r/tabled/comments/qnz9x/

[jeremy2]

Even if the initial setup allows agents to transport power and water through roads who is to say it should remain that way, I see no reason why the agents could not be assigned to "pipes" and power lines, im sure they will take that into account since simcity 2000, 3000, and 4 all had both these features.

And if Maxis fails to deliver the Simcity we desire...WE WILL MODD THE  ________ OUT OF IT! lol.

[xannepan]

And slightly cartoonish is a lot better in terms of looks - with current tech, we're going to end up in the Uncanny Valley if they tried for all out realism. I don't mind it looking slightly cartoonish and toy-like because let's face it, it's just like working with model train sets in your basement, except it's on your computer. As for limiting to isometric views... there are techniques out there that can be used to really make 3d models look good, even with unlocked cameras... I'm sure people who currently BAT for SC4 can handle working in a completely 3D game world... after all, SC4 is 3d as well, it's just using boxes with billboard images.

Agree with everything you are saying Tarkus, except that realism isn't important for me and (I think) many other BAT creators. Well.. I can only speak for myself off course, but just look at all BATs out there . For me a good degree of realism is what makes creating BATs so rewarding, ( and in a way it is easier too... since you have an example to start working from). Personally making cartoonish buildings just won't give that same satisfaction. Having that said, it is indeed way to early to say that realism won't be possible. You will be amazed how much the quality of textures on simple models can make a difference.

But you are absolutely correct SC4 is a 3D games. Our extremely complex models in 3dsmax are merely rendered / projected on extremely simple box models.

If we (BAT creators) can make the transition will depend on the tools we will have available. It will probably mean we need to become much better in creating textures, then in creating complex models. What remains to be seen is how much fun that would be compared to current satisfaction creating models.

Best case scenario is that we will have some scripts in 3ds max that will render the BATs we currently have,  to real (low poly) 3D models. Basically that would leverage the skills many BAT creators have build up over 9 years. Mathematically this would be entirely possible, and it would allow me to recreate all my current 3dsmax models into the new game. BUT... I'm not expecting this wil happen and I will stop further speculation until the games is released.

What I really really really hope for though is that maxis will pre-release some rudimentary bat tools or instructions on what we can expect, which tools could be used. I remember they did somethng similar before they released BAT for SC4. I had my model of the "Munsterchurch" ready in gmax before i could render it with BAT, and eventually it was one of the first BATs released. MAXIS even asked me by PM if I was prepared to do an interview with them at that time, but somehow this never happened (perhaps because shortely after it became clear the game would be 'discontinued'). Perhaps i will make a request for some an example model and some instructions. But again I will not get my hopes up or down too early.

-alex

[JoeST]

The only important question answered:

Does this new game promise to reticulate any splines?

[Andrew] Our paths (e.g., roads) are fully spline based. Thus, all you have to do is draw out a network of them, and you will have reticulated splines yourself. How awesome is that. More seriously, thinking up those load screen items was a lot of fun on SimCity 4 for the whole team. I'm looking forward to that process already.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I am clearly disappointed with these 4 videos.

Looks really childish, terrain and flora are bad and game looks american as always...

Second thing is: to have a real 3D game not allows integration of good custom content and in this sense isometric 3D like SC4 is the best way to have the best details.

Wait & see...

Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to say. I wonder wether one will be able to build - good looking - european cities (W2W etc., I don't want to write down all the characteristicas of an european metropolis) or wether we'll be forced to build with on type of buildings as depicted in the videos.
The childish look is something I've mentioned before, too. I'm really curious about the final product; they still have lot's of time... and I am not to optimistic.

And once again, we have people jumping to say "I don't like this game".

For crying out loud, guys, Maxis made it VERY clear from the start of the video that it was prototype graphics, they only wanted to show off the simulator. To expect perfect graphics now is well... expecting too much of them.

It's early days yet, to make an assumption like this is just wrong.

And slightly cartoonish is a lot better in terms of looks - with current tech, we're going to end up in the Uncanny Valley if they tried for all out realism. I don't mind it looking slightly cartoonish and toy-like because let's face it, it's just like working with model train sets in your basement, except it's on your computer. As for limiting to isometric views... there are techniques out there that can be used to really make 3d models look good, even with unlocked cameras... I'm sure people who currently BAT for SC4 can handle working in a completely 3D game world... after all, SC4 is 3d as well, it's just using boxes with billboard images.

Can you the Uncanny Valley with buildings? Always was told that's something for people/animals. After all, a buidling is just that. Not that I mind a stylised (even slichtly cartoonish) style. when done right those can be glorious in their beauty too.

[RickD]

Can you the Uncanny Valley with buildings? Always was told that's something for people/animals. After all, a buidling is just that. Not that I mind a stylised (even slichtly cartoonish) style. when done right those can be glorious in their beauty too.

Well, I think it could happen to buildings, too. Not to the extent with faces, but when a BAT is trying to be ultra realistic, you will start noticing even small details that are wrong. I think that scale will be a big issue with a free 3D camera. Under or overscaled buildings look weird in SC4 but in most cases I am able to ignore it. With full 3D you will see it immediately.

[jdenm8]

It's like how two story houses in SC4 are taller than some of the game's shorter Midrises or that the Local Library is smaller than a Toilet Block

In SC4, you don't notice that the ElRail lines and NAM overpasses are six floors tall, in a game with a free camera you will notice that immediately. If Maxis (and the modding community) have the same quality control when it comes to scaling as they do with SC4, we'll see the Uncanny Valley immediately. There are older games that do the scale excellently (Tycoon City: New York leaps to mind), but they don't have the complexity of SimCity.

[jondor]

On the other hand, I understand why the heights of just about everything are out of whack in SC4.  The isometric view really does a number on your depth perception, so that a 15m tall overpass doesn't look all that out of place until you stick something in scale right next to it.

Add to that the fact that we're used to viewing those sorts of things from the ground, not high up in the air.  Anything from a highrise to a single story house looks a lot taller from the ground than it does from a helicopter in real life.  On the computer screen we want that ground view because we're used to it, so we stretch the height of the models to make it look right.

All that said though, without the limitations of the isometric view I have a feeling things will be a bit more correctly scaled this time around.

[RickD]

It is up to Maxis to set a realistic and consistent standard that others can follow. I do not blame the SC4 batters alone for making buildings with wrong scale when even the Maxis buildings don't match each other.

[Lowkee33]

Has anything been heard/said about growth stages or demand?  The main reason I stopped playing Societies is because when you unlock a building, you unlock it for life.  Of course, Societies was sort of a "plop a city", but I'm pretty sure XL worked the same way.

If there is another chance to talk with the developers could someone bring that up?

[vortext]

As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?! 

[Stray Cat]

I know I lurk around here far more than I post but think it is time I spoke up.

I am really excited by this new version and intend to play it extensively.  I see so many positives here in the announcements and Q&A's and so forth.  The ability to extend the game in new directions via Glassbox just blow me away. 

I know a lot of players yearn for the artistic license of the SC4 that has been developed extensively by the community.  So, based on what I am hearing, here is my thought:

>> The community will develop mods that essentially will dumb-down and make static the new SimCity resource model to allow for static works of art.

Modders and such...comment please?  Do you foresee this being a possible mod for those who want a true sandbox?

Thanks.

Scott

[Battlecat]

As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?! 

What the first answer is describing is how the various cities interact.  It sounds like this game's version of the neighbor deals is going to be a lot more sophisticated with a complex mixture of supplies and demands.  Just because you're playing the region solo doesn't mean those game mechanics disappear. 

The key takeaway appears to be that those supplies and demand interactions between cities exist regardless of the number of players whether it's solo, two or 16. 

Speaking as a region player, I really hope the neighboring cities are actually visible when you load up a tile rather than the old SC4 technique of floating in space. 

[vortext]

Thanks for clearing that up, I was almost  with the notion the sandbox would be gone. 

Speaking as a region player, I really hope the neighboring cities are actually visible when you load up a tile rather than the old SC4 technique of floating in space.

YES! That would be great. In fact, I hope they ditch the tile system all togther and come up with something more sophisticated for regional play. There's next to nothing said on that in the Q&A. Though I must say it does appear they're really pushing for a worthy sequal. Fingers crossed.

[RickD]

There are two answers in the AMA that caught my eye.

The reason why SC4 runs so slow even on high-end machines:

SimCity 4 was unfortunately the victim of changes to GPU drivers. To support the high building count and detail, it was a so-called "dirty rect" based game, where only stuff that actually changed from frame-to-frame was re-rendered. This required being able to copy the depth buffer around on the GPU, particularly when panning the camera. There was a standard path for doing this at the time, but it became deprecated in later versions of DirectX, and drivers started falling back to slow paths which copied the depth buffer down to the CPU, shifted it around, and then copied it back up. Even with today's cards and PCI-X buses, this is still a pretty slow process.

The size of our new cities are roughly equivalent to the SC4 medium sized city (2 kilometers square).

[Tarkus]

Regarding the 2km thing, I remember when I first got SimCity 4 Deluxe and was playing it on a system that was decent for the time, but still on the lower end as far as system requirements went for the game, it lagged horribly on large city tiles once they got above about 30,000 population, and until I upgraded my system, I was predominantly playing on medium tiles.

My guess is that with the huge leap in going full-3D and having a fully-linked system with tens of thousands of agents, there's probably a similar rationale there.  It's always possible they could change things (or it could even be modded down the road--what I've seen of GlassBox so far demonstrates some pretty amazing flexibility), though we won't really know until closer to release.

-Alex

[mike3775]

I won't mind playing on medium city tiles for an entire region, that could actually make it more fun as with large tiles, playing to only have R, C, and I in a large city tile is a pain in the behind to do, but easy to do with medium and small city tiles

[catty]

As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?! 

As far as I can tell from reading the questions and answers there isn't a offline (standalone) version, you are online all the time and even if you don't want to play with anyone else ... your city will be impacted by what's happening in the surrounding cities.

Half of me is going a new simcity   

the other half which doesn't want to be connected to the internet or have to worry about what other players are doing is   

I have a standing policy of not playing any games that are online only ... I broke that for Cities XL and regretted it, whether I'll change my mind in a years time  if it means a new SimCity ... I don't know.

-catty

[j-dub]

This sounds almost like those guys on STEAM and what they were able to do, sort of (not supported) online play before. It almost sounds like the retail market, with what your competitor does, affects your outcome. I don't understand why single player would be a major no go. I feel like SC4 was marketed as an Online game, and you could go to that website and one time SC scape was in all its glory, guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[jondor]

As far as I'm concerned the following from the Q&A is really bad news for the single player option:

Maxis: Yeah, like SC4, you can build out a region by yourself, and make all of the cities serially. There are lots of players who just want to control their own world, and they don't want anybody to interfere with it. But even those solo players are going to be participating in the flow of resources that constitute the core of the games economy – the economic landscape that they're operating in will be shaped by the actions of other players, even if they are only playing solo.

Edit, now I'm just confused about it:

[Andrew] We've addressed this elsewhere, but I just want to repeat, single player is definitely still a big focus. And if you want to play all the cities in a region yourself, that's absolutely possible.

Maybe I'm having trouble reading but does one always participate in the grande scheme or not?! 

What the first answer is describing is how the various cities interact.  It sounds like this game's version of the neighbor deals is going to be a lot more sophisticated with a complex mixture of supplies and demands.  Just because you're playing the region solo doesn't mean those game mechanics disappear. 

The key takeaway appears to be that those supplies and demand interactions between cities exist regardless of the number of players whether it's solo, two or 16. 

Speaking as a region player, I really hope the neighboring cities are actually visible when you load up a tile rather than the old SC4 technique of floating in space.

I think Battlecat got the right gist here.  The answer implies that the interactions between cities in a region remain the same whether you play it by yourself or whether you share the experience with other people.  Personally, I've always wanted to try a multiplayer SimCity and I'm glad they're incorporating such a feature.

On another note, I do hope the city size is expandable in the future as technology marches on.  I honestly feel cramped even on a 4kmx4km grid, since I like lots of space to grow farms and build mainly rural regions.