NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

[Wiimeiser]

I think I found a bug with FAR-3 to Diagonal. When dragging the FAR-3 first, the diagonal won't drag properly unless it's misaligned by one tile. ...I'll have to post a video, won't I?

[Nevermore2797]

I can't install NAM properly. If I install on the C:\Documents folder, it will say couldn't find it in directory, OR if it works, it just skips EVERYTHING. I can put it on my G hard drive, but I will only get half of it which is incomplete. I will only get the Network Addon Mod file, but not the z___NAM one. Cleanitol also freezes.

[Tarkus]

I've followed the discussion on your related thread over at ST, so I've gleaned some details from there that I'll bring into this. 

I will make a disclaimer up front that the installer, while having some rather nifty bells and whistles in its current iteration, has become a rather unruly beast, and often does not take to non-standard installation directories (particularly "split" situations like you have) very kindly. 

That disclaimer aside, there are a few things I've noticed from your screenshots (here and here, for everyone's reference) that suggest there may still be some things to try.

The one thing I did notice from your screenshots over there is that it appears the mod is presently being directed to install to the Plugins folder in your game installation directory (the one on your G:\ drive), not the one in the Documents directory (on your C:\ drive).  There are only a few very rare instances in which things should be installed to the game installation directory (background image mods and Daeley's Advanced Menu Navigator (DAMN) support files being the main ones).  Otherwise, it should not be used at all.

For whatever reason--perhaps something related to this--the Auxiliary Files (or at least, the Documentation files) are being set up to go to the Documents\Plugins folder on the C:\ drive, but Cleanitol is trying to look for the definition file your supposed NAM installation directory inside the game's installation folder on the G:\ drive.  The script for the installer is supposed to place the Cleanitol definition file to the Auxiliary Files folder, not in the main NAM installation directory, so the freezing your experiencing is likely from Cleanitol not finding the definition in the directory confusion.

I will also add that it is possible to skip the Cleanitol portion of the installation process in a Custom Installation--there should be a checkbox to do so.  This isn't recommended, particularly if you're doing an install into a Plugins folder that already has files in it, but it might be something to try if Cleanitol remains an issue.

I would make absolutely sure that the installation directory listed in the appropriate part of the installer is the C:\Users\[username]\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins folder (the "My Documents" bit is important--Windows has been kind of screwy about "Documents" vs. "My Documents" since Vista) on your next attempt.

I'm not on my main SC4 computer (which is a Windows 10 machine) at the moment, though I can give some more accurate/detailed advice once I am back on it later.

-Alex

[woodb3kmaster]

I haven't seen the related thread at ST, but to add on to what Alex said:

One option you can use, if you really want or need to have your NAM installation in a non-standard location (say, if you had to keep your entire Documents\SimCity 4 folder on another hard drive because your C:\ drive is too small) is to use a symbolic link. By using a relatively simple command in the Windows Command Prompt, you can fool programs into thinking that they're installed on one drive when they're really on another. This is actually what I had to do when I got my current PC, since my C:\ drive is relatively small, and I wanted to keep as much extra stuff off of it as possible to avoid slowing Windows down. There's a detailed guide to creating symbolic links here.

[Nevermore2797]

I haven't seen the related thread at ST, but to add on to what Alex said:

One option you can use, if you really want or need to have your NAM installation in a non-standard location (say, if you had to keep your entire Documents\SimCity 4 folder on another hard drive because your C:\ drive is too small) is to use a symbolic link. By using a relatively simple command in the Windows Command Prompt, you can fool programs into thinking that they're installed on one drive when they're really on another. This is actually what I had to do when I got my current PC, since my C:\ drive is relatively small, and I wanted to keep as much extra stuff off of it as possible to avoid slowing Windows down. There's a detailed guide to creating symbolic links here.

Hi there, I tried it as of right now, yet it did not resolved my problem. It still gives me half of the files when installing. Half are still getting skipped. Hmmm.... I seem to got it fixed. See below? I didn't see anything got skipped.

I've followed the discussion on your related thread over at ST, so I've gleaned some details from there that I'll bring into this. 

I will make a disclaimer up front that the installer, while having some rather nifty bells and whistles in its current iteration, has become a rather unruly beast, and often does not take to non-standard installation directories (particularly "split" situations like you have) very kindly. 

That disclaimer aside, there are a few things I've noticed from your screenshots (here and here, for everyone's reference) that suggest there may still be some things to try.

The one thing I did notice from your screenshots over there is that it appears the mod is presently being directed to install to the Plugins folder in your game installation directory (the one on your G:\ drive), not the one in the Documents directory (on your C:\ drive).  There are only a few very rare instances in which things should be installed to the game installation directory (background image mods and Daeley's Advanced Menu Navigator (DAMN) support files being the main ones).  Otherwise, it should not be used at all.

For whatever reason--perhaps something related to this--the Auxiliary Files (or at least, the Documentation files) are being set up to go to the Documents\Plugins folder on the C:\ drive, but Cleanitol is trying to look for the definition file your supposed NAM installation directory inside the game's installation folder on the G:\ drive.  The script for the installer is supposed to place the Cleanitol definition file to the Auxiliary Files folder, not in the main NAM installation directory, so the freezing your experiencing is likely from Cleanitol not finding the definition in the directory confusion.

I will also add that it is possible to skip the Cleanitol portion of the installation process in a Custom Installation--there should be a checkbox to do so.  This isn't recommended, particularly if you're doing an install into a Plugins folder that already has files in it, but it might be something to try if Cleanitol remains an issue.

I would make absolutely sure that the installation directory listed in the appropriate part of the installer is the C:\Users\[username]\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins folder (the "My Documents" bit is important--Windows has been kind of screwy about "Documents" vs. "My Documents" since Vista) on your next attempt.

I'm not on my main SC4 computer (which is a Windows 10 machine) at the moment, though I can give some more accurate/detailed advice once I am back on it later.

-Alex

I tried now, but Cleanitol freezes. HOWEVER, it seems the installation becomes a success!

I have fixed them all. I never knew the use of Symlinks.

[Wiimeiser]

Found some more bugs:

I have no idea why this happens... Is it because that particular turn lane is Avenue-based? Also:

There's this weird grace zone for some reason, that's as close as I can drag the avenue...


This piece won't generate its stubs if there's already something there. Only tested road so far, though.


Yeah, this one won't be around much longer...

Also, I'm not sure if you got my previous reports...

[mgb204]

I have no idea why this happens... Is it because that particular turn lane is Avenue-based?

Note that all sorts of problems occur if you use a LHD controler and play in RHD mode or vice versa, which could be part of the problem. Either way, if clicking with the Ave tool doesn't fix things, I'd re-make the junction and see if that fixes it. Also, would be helpful to know if you are using the QuickTurn or manual FTL items here.

There's this weird grace zone for some reason, that's as close as I can drag the avenue...

What network are you dragging with? Avenue or Road? Because it looks like you've used a TLA-5 piece but expected it to work for avenues.

This piece won't generate its stubs if there's already something there. Only tested road so far, though.

Which is how such pieces work. You'd need to move it an additional tile away to make room for the in-built starter piece.

Yeah, this one won't be around much longer...

Right, but I'm not sure what exactly is the problem? If you just mean the slightly brighter texture, that's a very minor visual issue and such things are not uncommon. As such, I don't think it'll be much of priority to fix, given our current RL situation within the team.

[Thiagomc]

Is there already a release forecast for NAM v37?

[Thiagomc]

Hello! Is there already a release forecast for NAM v37?

[matias93]

Hi.
No, there is not. The NAM Team, by protocol, never announces dates for release. Also, the team is very reduced in numbers by now and the members have had issues to concentrate on the project, so it's probable we won't see another release in a long time, nonetheless their hard work.

[Wiimeiser]

Yeah, this one won't be around much longer...

Right, but I'm not sure what exactly is the problem? If you just mean the slightly brighter texture, that's a very minor visual issue and such things are not uncommon. As such, I don't think it'll be much of priority to fix, given our current RL situation within the team.

I'm talking about the removal of elevated RHW-2 from the Flex Transitions here.

Also, for the problem with FTL overrides, I'm using a QuickTurn piece.

[Tarkus]

Also, I'm not sure if you got my previous reports...

We did.  There's just not a lot of activity right now, and those issues have not been investigated as of this point.

I'm talking about the removal of elevated RHW-2 from the Flex Transitions here.

That proposed change is still undergoing evaluation.

Regarding the Manual FTL vs. QuickTurn, there should be no real difference in the functionality/behavior between the two.  There's basically just some stretches of base networks placed in between the FLEX/starter items, and the same RUL2, RUL1, and INRUL code is being used.  QuickTurn basically operates on the same principle as the proposed QuickChange Xpress.

As far as release timelines, as matias93 accurately noted, the NAM Team will not be announcing a date or forecast of when NAM 37 may be released. 

As those who have followed the project for awhile know, we tried a release date once--NAM 31.  We're actually approaching the 6th anniversary of that release--it was scheduled for March 1, 2013, in order to assure the city-simulator community of the NAM Team's continued commitment to SimCity 4, by coming out before the 2013 "reboot" of SimCity (released March 6th), and because of the symmetry between "3/1" and 31.  We even had a snazzy little promotional GIF for it . . .



Development right toward the end was a mad rush, however, and the release ended up coming a day later, and with a very messy launch--people nicknamed it "NAM Vista", and we spent 3 months doing nothing but bugfixing around the clock.  The SimCity 2013 launch somehow went even more wrong than ours, so that took some heat off it, but it was basically a very loud confirmation of why we didn't--and shouldn't--publicly announce release dates.

The big issues facing NAM 37 are:

(1) The NAM currently has a small development team, which is dealing with extended periods of heavy RL and/or burnout.
(2) Many of the projects that have been worked on for this cycle have been moderate-to-very large undertakings, almost all of which have encountered a number of unforeseen setbacks, and it has been difficult to sustain forward momentum with those projects, due to Point 1.
(3) There are structural issues with the project and its packaging, which currently still holds to the NAM 31 "monolithic" paradigm.  That approach, once the issues were worked out with the initial presentation (as evidenced by the success of NAM 32) proved to be popular with the community, particularly in light of the long-standing demand for larger, unified packages for SC4 mods and custom content.  It was, however, designed around having a much larger team, including having an incredibly brilliant software engineer design and maintain our installer system. 

There are no easy answers to these points.  The only real way I'd see a release happening any time soon would be with a very small release, with maybe one new feature (basically, whatever feature that one of us could eke out the time to finish) and some fixes.  Otherwise, it's going to be a very long ride.  Project 57-Mark IV is planned to be released on its own as an open beta, outside of NAM 37.  It would not surprise me if that open beta happened pre-NAM 37.

-Alex

[Wiimeiser]

How finished is the REW? If it's almost done, maybe you could release it sooner rather than later...

Regarding the removal of auto RHW-2 viaducts and that specific setup there's the problem that starters simply won't work. But wasn't there an idea to do stuff with rail stubs? Did that go anywhere?

[Tarkus]

How finished is the REW? If it's almost done, maybe you could release it sooner rather than later...

Regarding the removal of auto RHW-2 viaducts and that specific setup there's the problem that starters simply won't work. But wasn't there an idea to do stuff with rail stubs? Did that go anywhere?

The REW was removed from consideration for NAM 37 back in October.  The One-Way Road network's hardcoded "tidal flow" directional system reared its ugly head somewhere midway through development, and there'd still be quite a bit of work to do with it after breaking through that roadblock.  It had a total of two dev-only alpha builds, and never reached the point of going to the NAM Associates, which is a necessary threshold for a large-scale feature to enter the release track.  The plan is to reassess it after NAM 37 is finished.

As of right now, particularly in light of some of the discussions regarding doing similar removals on the base versions of the FLEXRamps/DRIs, and some feedback I've gotten in P57-MkIV testing (where doing so with the FLEX-OSTs has been an issue), I am leaning toward a couple of alternate possibilities. 

One would be to retain the status quo and keep the auto-L1/L2 RHW-2, and the other would entail possibly creating a separate FLEXHeight/OST transitions--one version of each that retains the auto-L1/L2 RHW-2 (in effect, a dedicated RHW-2 transition), and another that drops it (intended for all the override networks).  The first option may mean the L2 transition adjacency stability that some have been clamoring for is pushed out to a further release, since keeping the auto setup will require adding about 100,000 lines of RUL2 code.

-Alex

[Wiimeiser]

So there's the possibility the REW might get the axe or be changed to a different network? That's a shame if it gets scrapped, it had potential... (and a road setup might not work as well with draggable ramp interfaces. Though you could use OWR in those instances if tidal flow doesn't matter)

Given that there's roughly one situation in which the lack of an auto L1 RHW-2 would be a problem (you can use starters in almost every other situation besides the one I showed) it might be best to just scrap it. It seems the RHW-2 really intrudes on everything. At this rate I can see NAM 50 making L0 RHW-2 an override network and replacing the original base network with black and purple checkerboard...

And did the rail on RHW stub trick ever go anywhere?

[Tarkus]

The niche that the NAM Simulator carves out for the OWR is a large part of the reason the REW came into being, so I don't see the base network being changed.  The technical issues appear to be solvable, but not easily so, particularly considering the scope of the project, and our current resources.  The project is definitely still on, but development is on hiatus, at least until after NAM 37 is released.

With the RHW-2, we do have to be careful not to introduce too many barriers to using the base network--there is definitely a change-adverse contingent within our userbase, who haven't taken too well to some of our changes over the past few years, and worry about new versions "breaking" their cities.  The installer issues have made this "holdout" stance worse.

Frankly, I consider the holdout situation an existential threat.  The SC4 community has been (and continues to be) largely driven by the continued development of new content, and the NAM has been a key part of that for almost 15 years now.  If people are afraid of that new content and won't use it, that's a problem.

Something along the lines of what you've described is somewhat close to an ideal situation, though we'd probably have to keep the base network looking and acting like an RHW-2, as it currently does.

There wasn't a Rail trick, but there was an El-Rail trick, which was Ganaram's invention.  He seemed to have it working quite well, but my attempts to test it were not particularly successful.

-Alex

[Alan_Waters]

Will the project "Symphony" be developed? Will the set of road junctions be extended for him?

[mgb204]

Will the project "Symphony" be developed? Will the set of road junctions be extended for him?

I would like to make some additions to it, but when you say road junctions, I'm not really aware of anything missing there, so perhaps you could elaborate on what you are thinking of?

Personally, I would like to see a L1 option made a reality for MHO. I'd also like to add diagonal junctions too and add some more interesting bridges for it. But nothing too revolutionary.

[Alan_Waters]

MHW connects well with RHW, but there are very few intersections, and those that are present are intersections, in a roundabout, even in the original MHW, there are more intersection options. 

[Wiimeiser]

So I'm not sure what's been going on with the REW under the hood but it sounds like trouble...

The fanbase seems to have gotten stuck in a cycle of relotting IRL commercial lots and such. I think I remember reading something about that on TV Tropes, I'll have to find it...

EDIT: I think it might have been "Real is Brown" but it's since been edited...