RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[le_harv]

Ok no problem, I always thought the Maxis highway looked squashed!

The 3 tile wide 3 lane RHW/UHW would make an excellent 'indirect' highway replacement though. Combined with the 2 Lane UHW 'direct' highway placement....outstanding.

[Shadow Assassin]

Don't have access to my pc, but i do have access to my wii... and it's crazy typing with a wiimote - brings a literal meaning to point and click. :p

Anyways, that is intended to be a part of the nwm, and well, you'll just have to wait till then! :p

It's really dependent on when Tarkus gets it ready - as I only make texture modifications at this point in time, as I leave the the RULing to Tarkus and jplumbley (really should learn, eh? ).

[Haljackey]

So, would the new ground/elevated highway be called the UHW?  Is that right? 

Anyway, the only real problem with that network that I see is the pathing it uses.  The Ground/elevated highway are 3 lanes, the UHW is 2.  That may take some work to get it working right.  Also theres the factor that may people may not want to use this network because you lose a lane.  A 2 lane UHW would look good in suburbia, but the regular 3 lane highways look more realistic in dense urban areas where highways are generally wider to accommodate higher volumes.

I know She Who Will Not Be Named over at Simtropolis is working on a newer ground highway, and this one is still 3 lanes and features a paved shoulder.  I think it starts on page 3. Heres a link to the project:
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=154&threadid=83281http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=154&threadid=83281

Heck, the "UHW" looks similar to the the highways used back in Sim City 3000, as they were only 2 lanes as well.  Nice work with it!  It shows a lot of potential!

[Jonathan]

SA: Ask Jplumbley or Tarkus for Tarkus's Tutorial, that's how I learn't how to make Starter puzzle pieces and it gives help on RULs

[le_harv]

Haljackey

I wouldn't get your hopes up to much about that highway project over at ST because of this post here

Sorry...

[Haljackey]

Haljackey

I wouldn't get your hopes up to much about that highway project over at ST because of this post here

Sorry...

Hmm... I guess never mind then

[jplumbley]

Where to start... hmmm.

Nice textures SA, they really do look awesome and more realistic.  I would like to make a quick comment about those who think these new textures are not "fitting".  Tarkus, told me the other day that he was rummaging around in the Simcity.Dat files and found an old set of textures for ground and El Highway, these textures were only 2 Lanes.  Why would MAXIS have a 2 Lane texture unless they changed their minds for some reason later to goto a "squashed" 3 Lane texture?  It seems as though they were tossing around the idea "realistic width" vs "standard number of lanes".  Obviously we know what they chose.

Now, someone mentioned something about the paths.  Making new SC4Path files is actually fairly easy, there is just alot of them to do for the entire network but, whatever it will get done.  At first, this mod can be released without new path files if it is wanted bad enough, the only difference is it will have 3 paths instead of 2.  The texture on the model does not in any way shape or form effect the path files.  This means you could have a texture that makes the El Highway look like a water aqueduct and you could have cars "floating" in the water down the highway aqueduct.  Also, the number of lanes on the highway have no effect on the in-game capacity of the highway.  The capacity is set in the NAM files.  This mod will not change the actual capacity of the network, its just a visual guide.

Can this be turned into an alternative puzzle drag? Yes.  It means copying the models from the Simcity.Dats put the new textures on them and give the models new IIDs.  Then a puzzle starter piece is needed and alot of RUL overrides to complete this.

Can this be made into "wider versions"?  Yes, but not easily and it will take ALOT of time.  New models will have to be designed for everything including interchanges.  There are not very many people who can make these models either.  I think the handful includes Arkenbergejoe, Jeronij, and anyone who has created a bridge.  Making interchanges follows very closely to bridge making except that the models used for the bridge can only a few pieces, where as an interchange will have alot of pieces (one for each tile).  Maybe, if we can get these guys together and Alex and I as a team we might be able to pump out some new interchanges.  But right now I dont see this happening since all of us have different projects we are working on.

[Shadow Assassin]

You know what'd be cool?

If Maxis had the original two-lane path files for the highway.

I remember that, the original two lane textures... they were actually quite good. Can't believe they got rid of it...

The only problem with this texture mod replacement is that it makes a few of the interchanges appear odd, because of the way they were set up in the spaghetti-bowl.

Haljackey

I wouldn't get your hopes up to much about that highway project over at ST because of this post here

Sorry...

It's possible to take up that project where he left off - unfortunately, to redo that would take a lot of effort. However, it's probably a lot better to get these projects finished and organised. As for the wider UHW, making new models is quite simple, since the normal model is a low-poly model. In fact, I've modified an example of it in 3dsmax, but I've got no pics, seeing as I ah, misplaced the models. Interchanges, of course, are a different matter - but on the bright side, we can get rid of those tiny little T interchanges and make em bigger with different styles. But one problem - the side road would need to stay standard, wouldn't it, otherwise we'd have huge problems making say UHW6 interchanges connecting to UHW4, and so on. The MIS might provide a solution to that...

[le_harv]

The MIS might provide a solution to that...

I agree that the UHW/RHW should take priority as it is highly anticpated due to the MIS! I agree that the slip road would need to be 1 lane as it makes it simpler to join different sized road systems together. I think it would be a fair compromise between realism and SC4 (plus being a great starting point). I am not saying now but I suppose in the distant future the MIS system could be adapted so that larger slip roads were possible between the various forms of UHW and RHW?

[Tarkus]

Hi everyone-

Just thought I'd weigh in on a few things here.

Shadow Assassin, the UHW is looking extremely nice, and it's really good to see the old Maxis "FHW" (Fake Highway, for those of you who are wondering ) look like a real highway.

Now, for those of you wondering what my thoughts are on how the UHW should be integrated into the grand scheme of NAM/RHW/NWM stuff, here's my reasoning.  Yes, if the UHW were released as is, it would effectively replace the existing Maxis Highway setup, and we do generally try to avoid replacing things on the NAM.

However, I'm fully in favor of SA's UHW completely replacing the old Maxis Highways.  Here's my reasoning. 
-It brings the original Maxis Highway networks up to scale (it's 50% of the size it needs to be, considering both SC4 and RL scale).
-It simply looks better, in my opinion. 
-It was what Maxis originally intended to do with the highways.
-The pathing on the diagonals for the original Maxis 3-lane setup is so tightly packed the cars are actually running into each other.
-The Network Widening Mod (NWM) will require modifications to the Transit Simulator Exemplar, which affects the speed and capacity of SC4's transit networks, in order to function properly.  With the modifications I have made, the RHW and the 2-lane UHW will have equal capacity.  The loss of a lane will, in effect, have no impact on capacity.  (Even without the modifications, the way the exemplar works, unless there's some highly unlikely deal with the pathfinding relating to the number of paths, the capacity will not be reduced anyway).
-Everyone wanting a 3-lane-per-direction highway will have the option of using the RHW-6C or RHW-6S.  For those of you concerned about the additional space consumption of these two networks, the shoulder of the RHW-6S occupies only about 1/4 of the second tile added to either side of the RHW-4 setup.  Thus, through the use of overhanging lots (this could include signage, sound barriers, or even buildings), this remaining 3/4 of a tile left on the sides of the RHW-6S can in fact be utilized.
-While a puzzle drag override can be used to add the UHW without replacing the Maxis Highway, there are many special circumstances that must be taken into consideration because of the characteristics of 2-tile networks, like the Maxis Highways and the Avenue network.  This greatly complicates the override and puzzle drag creation process.  I've experienced this firsthand when I tried to implement the AVE-6 through an override involving the Avenue network.  It is also why the Avenue Roundabouts had to be implemented via puzzle piece, rather than a draggable override like the other roundabouts in the NAM.  These complications would also make it infinitely more difficult to widen the UHW or Maxis Highways as has been done with the RHW, the TLAs, OWR-5, etc.
-I'd be willing to interface the MIS with the new UHW.

And speaking of the MIS, SA, you couldn't be more right about the purpose of the whole thing.  If one were to make a traditional "mega-plop" interchange (like the existing Maxis and NAM interchanges), the design is cast in stone.  If there was need to lengthen a ramp one tile, or have a Road cross under one tile of it, it would require a completely new "mega plop"--new models, new RULs, new paths, new everything.  All for just one slight variation.  The entire reason for the MIS was to eliminate the need for new "interchanges" (by that, I mean traditional mega-plops) by breaking everything down, to allow the user nearly infinite variation while greatly decreasing the amount of work needed, while improving aesthetics and functionality.  While there isn't really much functional difference between the Maxis Cloverleaf and the NAM Stack interchanges, where and how you place the ramps with the MIS will make a noticeable difference.  (It's not just for show, you know. )

And to answer your question, le_harv, at some point, there will be various widths available for the MIS.  It may not be as distant as you think.

Hope that answers some questions.  I'll hopefully have some new developments to show here with the MIS, as well as some stuff over at the TLA project (which is still alive)

-Alex (Tarkus)

[le_harv]

le_harv, at some point, there will be various widths available for the MIS.  It may not be as distant as you think.

You guys know how to keep the suspense going eh? lol

Just so I got this right in my head in terms of realism (e.g. I want to eliminate the Maxis Highway from my cities completely)...

The loose road heirachy I will use is as follows (I appreciate that the FHW will still be in there somewhere and that the NWM might not be technically faster than RHW/UHW but from a looks point of view will be excellent)...

Street
Road/OneWay
Avenue
RHW/UHW (indirectly replaces Maxis highways as a two lane dual carriageway)
NWM (larger freeways/motorways possibly 3 to 5 lanes in each direction?)
MIS (For creation of larger interchanges, however u wish to plan them between roads/avenue/RHW/NWM, with a future possibility of wider slip roads for more seamless linking between different width roadtypes)

Because if so.... AWESOME...

[Shadow Assassin]

Well, for the UHW, all that would be needed is for the exit ramp on the adjacent tile to be made, and then a conventional MIS could be drawn from that... unless you'd like to see the MIS with barriers like on the UHW?

And yes, le_harv, that's the whole point of the NAM - to add all that stuff. Goodness me, I remember the days when the old crowd said "this isn't possible, we need the .exe to do it"... and look at what the NAM's become!

[Mayor Abe]

While I disagree wit Tarkus's characterization of the Maxis highways as "fake" (after all, there are 3 lane elevated highways in real life), I like the progress of the UHW Good work, SA!

[DFire870]

While I disagree wit Tarkus's characterization of the Maxis highways as "fake" (after all, there are 3 lane elevated highways in real life), I like the progress of the UHW Good work, SA!

Actually, I believe the "Fake Highway" moniker came from the fact that there aren't any ground or elevated highways IRL that look like the Maxis ones, and that the scale is off for the two.

Oh, and great work on the elevated highway SA! It kinda reminds me of the upper deck of I-35 here in Austin, but not separated.

[Shadow Assassin]

Welll... the scale might come into debate because on a motorway near here on a 2km stretch, the lanes are that narrow.

[mightygoose]

well hmm so interchange models have to be made in 1x1 segments, is that not what jplumbey was implying.... thats not too difficult....hell i would be game for doing all the highway pieces two lane up.... provided i had the relevant modding support....

[Shadow Assassin]

This means you could have a texture that makes the El Highway look like a water aqueduct

Hmm, interesting. Who's game for that? It'll be good for making canal bridges, the paths could be changed.

[Jonathan]

Having an aquaduct would be awesome, but that would have to be using a draggable puzzle piece otherwise we wouldn't be able to have your amazing textures

[yoshiisland2]

I believe the Maxis highways are "fake" to some extent, because the lanes are so narrow when I do the bus UDI the cars next to me always get bumped off...

[nwelsh]

Hello everyone

I have made a slope mod for the RHW.  I did not like the original slopes, so I adjusted them.

Here are some pictures (click to enlarge).

Before:


After:


This mod only affects the RHW. It is designed to be used by itself OR with other slope mods, as long as the

RHW slope mod loads after the other slope mod(s), the RHW itself, and the NAM. 

I have attached it bellow.  I hope you find it useful.