Shadow problem with randomized props

[Chrisadams3997]

Well, I put up this problem in my RRP thread, but I also wanted to put it in an appropriate thread here in case someone not watching my project thread can help out.  What I've done is used a reskey 4 property along with the 'Prop random chance' property(same one used for the irrigation sprinklers in maxis farm fields) to randomize whether the gates on my fences are open or closed, and to good effect.  However, no matter which model shows, only the shadow for the model set to state 0(in the reskey 4 property) shows:



Here's a pic of the exemplar file:



I believe that Maxis only ever used this property to switch from a model in state 0 to a blank state 1, so they may have just not set it up properly to do what I'm trying to do, but I'd like to know if anyone has worked with this before with any success.  Perhaps there is something I'm missing.  I'm attaching the lot and prop files for anyone who'd like to take a look.  The lot is found at or near the top of the Misc. Transport menu.

Thanks for any help on this.

edit:  having looked just a little further into this issue, it has nothing to do with the random prop property, but rather is just tied to the reskey 4 which only uses the shadow for the state 0 model.  Doesn't change the basic problem, but I did want to clarify.

Chris

[Andreas]

I believe that Maxis only ever used this property to switch from a model in state 0 to a blank state 1, so they may have just not set it up properly to do what I'm trying to do, but I'd like to know if anyone has worked with this before with any success.

I haven't looked deeper into the issue, but my best guess is that Maxis used this type of prop only for a purpose that several creators describe as "semi-seasonal" (i. e. SimGoober's blooming crepe myrtles or some of Cycledogg's trees) - they only change their appearance, but the shape, size and orientation of the model stays the same. The main advantage is that you only need one exemplar file for two different models, and since the game needs to render the shadow for only one model (that's my guess), they are pretty resource friendly.

The method that is used for most "seasonal" trees is to stack several props right onto each other, and show/hide them with a set of properties that is set up accordingly. Every prop has its own exemplar file, so they are completely independend from each other, only creating the visual look of "changing" if you stack several similar properties onto each other. Naturally, this will use more resources, but you're completely free in what you want to display over the time. "Seasonal" props don't necessarily have to change over the seasons, but they can also be displayed/hidden over the in-game 24h day with the "Prop Time of Day" property.

[JBSimio]

I also don't know much about the "Prop random chance" property... I've never actually used it.  However, if I properly understand what you're trying to do, I'm not sure why you would need it.  If you're simply trying to make various gate models appear (open or closed, I assume each is a separate model), it seems to me you could just put these different models into a standard prop family.  The drawback might be getting them to line up properly.  You'd have to make the LODs for all of them the same size to "stack" properly... some may need to be offset, etc.  The time of day properties would do the trick as well, although not in a completely random fashion.  Then again, if I'm not understanding your goals properly, then most likely none of this helps!    I'm on my way out the door right now, but I'll check back tomorrow and have a look at the file then if need be.

JB

[Chrisadams3997]

I've already offset them such that they would 'stack' properly in a prop family.  At present there are two different prop families, one for the open models, and one for the closed, and of course two different lots, one for open and one for closed.  I had hoped to use the method seen here(the random property, etc.) to be able to combine both onto one lot.  A time of day property results in the same problem as it is tied to the reskey 4 property which seems to only return a shadow for the first model in it, either for the reasons Andreas proposed, or (more likely) Maxis just overlooked it because they never used it for something the shadow's needed to update for.

Certainly I could just use one prop family on one lot for open and closed, so that you get one or the other, but that just wouldn't be quite as interesting , as I like to try to bring as much life to my lots as possible.  That said, it might be the only option if the shadows are to work right.

So far I've yet to see any way to force the shadow's to update for additional models beyond the state 0 one, though I can make them disappear altogether when the state 1 model is shown.  Still not much of a solution.

[JBSimio]

Hmm... given what you said in your last post, Chris, I'm beginning to think you may have a totally separate issue at work here.  I've used prop families and time of day combinations before that cast completely different shadows and it has worked fine.  I'll take a look at your attached file when I get home and see if anything comes to mind.

JB

[Andreas]

JB,

Chris used a special setup of the exemplar file in order to create that random "gate open - gate closed" effect. This has nothing to do with prop families per se, but the way the game handles a timed prop. So it's not really a question how to achieve the desired effect, but more a query about a possible bug or simply an oversight from Maxis, if it hasn't been set up like this on purpose, as I assumed (saving as much resources as possible).

[JBSimio]

Andreas:  I understand that now having also read his other thread too.  I was just trying to think of alternate ways of achieving the same effect if the "random chance" doesn't pan out.  I've probably misunderstood and just muddied the situation further though... what else is new? 

[Chrisadams3997]

My apoligies, as Barby pointed out to me, I forgot the second model file , so anyone looking at them needs the one attached here as well.

It's hard to say if there is any workaround, but I certainly appreciate any and everyone looking into or sharing knowledge on this.  The present situation places, in my mind, some very artificial limits on what can or can't be done with multi-state props, and a solution could undoubtably have further applications that just my present undertaking, so thanks to all who might help .

[cogeo]

The Resource Key Type 4 property, is full of problems concerning shadows as far as I can tell. I have used it extensively in my lots, and here are some more problems:
- If you use the property to combine multiple models into one prop exemplars, only one of the models in the list (usually the first)casts a shadow.
- If you specify a XYZ offset (to "move" a model), the model is offset properly, but the shadow is not (it is always displayed ar position 0,0,0 relative to the prop's center).
These all appear to be problems of SC4 itself (bugs/untested), rather than modding errors). So this property is only useful in very few cases, ie in cases that don't cause the above problems to occur.

I have not really understood what you want to make with your lots, can you explain it in more detail?