T Wrecks and his Industry Revolution Mod

[FrankU]

I have a question concerning this mod by T Wrecks.

T Wrecks tells us in the readme of his project that his mod does not work with CAM. He is not sure why. His theory is the following. He PM'ed me this message after I had asked him about this.

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My mod contains only copies of the Maxis lots (same IID) with altered appearance and adjusted density setting. The growth stage can also be affected because the LE calculates it automatically upon saving the file. Stage depends on the relation of occupants to surface area, i.e. the more occupants and the more compact the lot, the higher the pre-set stage will be. Since most of my lots are larger, many of them will have been knocked down a stage. (IMO, that's not a problem because I don't think stages make much sense for industry anyway)

I didn't make any change to the building exemplar, though - it is still the default exemplar taken from within the file SimCity1.dat.

Since growth stage and density are related entirely to the lot, I suspect that - unlike my mod - the CAM contains changes to the default building exemplars. Currently I'm speculating that the following takes place:
1) CAM replaces all default building exemplars with modified ones.
2) CAM replaces all default lots with lots that look the same, but contain different stage data.
3) CAM points these lots to the modified building exemplars.
4) CAM blocks the use of the default building exemplars.

This way, the default building exemplars Maxis and I used are blocked and cannot be used. The only building exemplars that can be used are those contained in the CAM. These building exemplars, in turn, rely on their own lots and cannot grow on the default lots or any replacements (=same IID) thereof. Since my mod is a collection of such replacements, it is simply not recognised.

So much for my highly speculative theory at least... 
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And now for my question. I would like to use the Mod, because the lots are so much better looking than the awful Maxis ones. Is there anybody who can help me with the technical aspects of the problem? I would like to know how I can manage to make the lots work with the CAM, because I like both.
If this would concern that all IID's of TWrecks's lost must be changed by hand I just might be so stupid to do that.... 

[whatevermind]

I think this doesn't work with CAM for two main reasons:

• Duplicating lots - as he points out, CAM contains replacements for Maxis buildings, and since this does the same, one would necessarily override the other.
• The way he uses zoning density to control type of industry is not necessarily incompatible with CAM, but because it doesn't follow the standard zone-density-growth stage relationships, you might get some weird results.

That's just my guess from having looked over his (rather beautiful) mod when it came out, but they strike me as the biggest points of conflict.

That said, there's no reason you couldn't take his lots and use PIM-X to CAM them all, allowing you to use his new lots in a CAM game. You would lose out on the other aspects of the mod however.

[WolfGuy100]

Hmm, that is rather interesting. I have CAM in SimCity 4 and call me crazy, but I have a frustrating time to grow dirty industrial because no matter when I zone them, they never grow. And I think I may have downloaded that Industrial Revolution Mod into SimCity folder too but I'm still not too sure.

EDIT: Never mind, just realized I never downloaded that mod.

[FrankU]

Hi Whatevermind,

Of course I could make an override of the override?
It's just that TWrecks thinks the IID's of the override lots by CAM are different than the IID's of Maxis original lots. TWrecks uses the original Maxis IID's. So if I give TWrecks's lots the same IID's as the CAM lots.... it could work. Just load the IRM after CAM. Right?
Or indeed: CAMifying all TWrecks lots, so I can use the visual quality in my CAM without any kind of conflict.
It is doable. Maybe I will try to do that?
If I do, I will put it on the STEX, but I'll only do it if TWrecks is OK with that.

But I rather use his med densitiy and high density use too...

So, someone knows more about the conflict?

[hsuknowledge]

Using the X-Tool, I found that to make CAM Maxis industrial lots maintain their growth stages while recomputing, the filling degree of the corresponding (Maxis) building exemplars have to be 1.1 or 1.2 in most cases (I have just tested high growth stage CAM HT industrials). Maybe with this finding all re-lots that T Wrecks has made can be assigned proper growth stages (and be compatible with the CAM.)

EDIT: However, no I-D buildings need alteration. (Just use the default 0.5 filling degree, and after recomputing, the suggested growth stages are the same as those of CAM I-D lots.) They have lower Capacity Satisfied values too. So if we have one building model and make two building exemplars, one is I-D and the other I-HT, and make two same-sized growable lots out of the two building exemplars, the filling degree has to be set to 1.1 or 1.2 for the I-HT building exemplar so that the two growable lots will have the same growth stage.

I-M are similar to I-HT because the filling degrees of both need to be specified in order to get correct growth stages (which are the same as the growth stages set by the CAM.)

EDIT: I've finished modifying I-M and I-HT buildings their filling degrees, and also modified the growth stages of some lots when there is no such filling degree that all lots based on this building have the "correct" growth stage. Having tested once, but found that no lot is counted by Ripplejet's CAMeLot Counter despite their growth stages. So I added CAMeLot Occupant Groups and now everything seems right. I think I can start modifying T Wreck's re-lots; however, I could still make some mistakes.

On modifying T Wreck's re-lots, I used the "corrected" CAM Industrial building exemplars to recompute their growth stages (I used a clone of modified building exemplar .dat file and preserved the other clone because the building exemplars are going to be modified their CAMeLot Occupant Groups.) However, upon testing, some dirty industry chose to grow on high density zone, which was in conflict with IRM's logic. I found that most of the recomputed I-D re-lots have their Lot Config Property Zone Types properties changed from 0x08(medium density) to 0x09(high density) by the X-Tool, which made them show up in bunches on high density zones. They, along with I-M and I-HT re-lots, are corrected using Reader. The I-M part is more painstaking, for I need to reference T Wreck's original numbers. Now these things are done and tested, I am happy with the result! Hope I can share this with you:

1. Like the IRM, dirty industry only grows on medium density zones, high-tech industry on high density zones, while manufacturing industry grow on both. The jobs manufacturing buildings and high-tech buildings offer does increase.


2. These lots are counted as CAMeLots


3. Statistics for the resulting modified IRM lots:

I-D

Growth Stage	Count
1	6
2	18
3	16
4	27
5	16
6	3
7	3

I-M

Growth Stage	Count
1	8
2	12
3	17
4	20
5	14
6	7

I-HT

Growth Stage	Count
1	7
2	6
3	11
4	14
5	13
6	5
7	7
8	2

[FrankU]

Hi hsuknowledge,

I see this is your first post on SC4D, so I will start with a "Welcome aboard!"
And what an entry! You didn't bother to open the door first: you just jump in with some very good work. Thank you!
I am not certain I understand everything. I will have to read it again when I have more time, but it sounds very good.

[hsuknowledge]

Thank you, Frank U!

Continuing my research with the X-Tool, it was also found that the Maxis dirty factory buildings were not CAMified. The pollution was mostly too high, and most of them did not employ enough workers, so they are treated with the X-Tool, by specifying a number called the filling degree, to make their growable lots show up at CAM-specified growth stages. The majority received lower pollution stats, and those of the 1x1 anchors, mechs, outs are reduced most significantly. The Burning Unit, which sits on a 2x1 or 3x1 lot, had its air-polluting capability lowered to 7, a great drop compared to the original 25. However, some does pollute more now, especially the large factories, so you might want to prevent them from popping up in your city. But don't worry, these factories come in larger lots, and it's quite reasonable for them to pollute more. Moreover, these larger factories also employ more sims, and can bring more variety to your city.

As for CAMifying T Wreck's IRM Base Set, the I-D lots have been updated, and following is the updated stats:

I-D

Growth Stage	Count
1	6
2	15
3	9
4	28
5	14
6	5
7	3

[thinkdude]

Hey so could you possibly explain on a more basic level how someone who is not familiar with modding sc4 would go about putting these changing into place.  I've been trying to teach myself how to use pim-x but seems like it will take a long time to learn how to use it. 

I understand this may not be something that can easily be broken down into a step by step guide, but if you could possibly explain in a little more detail the general process of changing the stats needed or where  i can find a guide that can teach me , I would really appreciate it.

[whatevermind]

@thinkdude:

If you don't already have the PIM-X Guide off the LEX, you should get that and read it. You might be particularly interested in the "Editing Existing Lots" section starting on p35 of the guide.

[thinkdude]

Thank you.  Don't I feel stupid,  I've opened up that guide 3 or 4 times but always started from beginning and gave up reading it by 3rd or 4th page , I never even noticed that section of it, which would have been the logical place to start.. Thanks, I'll check it out now.

[APSMS]

I hate resurrecting dead threads, but I was wondering if it was at all necessary to use the PIM-X tool to recalibrate the values necessary for the IRM lots.

Would it be possible to simply change the values in the Reader to the predetermined CAM stats, and use them that way? I'm far more familiar with the Reader tool, and it seems like it'd be preferable to having to open all the Lots in two programs as opposed to just using one. Does anyone know either way, and what would be the advantage of the PIM-X for a building with whose occupancy I'm already familiar?

Again, to quote Vortext, please excuse my thread necromancy. (I'm just frustrated with Paeng's industrial mod--probably not CAMpatible either--because of the spamming of quantum dishes in my cities' industrial parks, and am seeking a solution).

[whatevermind]

The advantage of PIM-X is you can use the filling degree to automatically generate the values so you don't have to think them up. But if you're just copying the values from existing lots (the CAMified Maxis industrials if I follow), then there's really no reason you couldn't do that just as well with Reader.

[Shadowstrike]

With apologies for thread necromancy, I'm looking into getting IRM to work with CAM and if I understand the instructions in this thread correctly, the steps are:

1) Edit the IRM lots by replacing their values with the ones from their CAMified counterparts (or by using PIM-X to calculate new ones), but preserving the Lot Config Property Zone Types (since this is what's constraining the dirty lots to medium-density industrial zones and high-tech lots to high-density industrial zones). Add in CAMELot Occupant Groups as appropriate.
2) Delete the industrial lots from the CAM.dat file (which leaves the modified IRM lots to override the default Maxis lots).

Am I missing anything?

[jaredh]

I don't think step 2 is really required...you could just put the updated IRM lots into the load order after the CAM ones so they override the CAM ones.

I don't know if anybody has actually done the full conversion of the IRM yet...the OP never came back to say he had it working.

[vortext]

Seems quite alright. As jaredh said step 2 is not really necessary, though personally I would do it too. Just for good measure. 

[Shadowstrike]

I did some poking around in the CAM and IRM files.

The IRM contains a set of 250 LotConfigurations (which covers growth stage, which zones it grows in, and the buildings/props on the lot), which replace the original Maxis LotConfigurations. The IRM lots connect to the default Maxis building examplars (which have the game stats - the number of jobs, pollution, and so forth).

In contrast, CAM includes a set of 250 LotConfigurations (which reassign the CAM lots to new stages), but also a set of building examplars (for the buildings which have different stats in CAM vs the original; I'm unsure whether this is every single industrial building, but for the residential and commercial buildings, it's only a handful at the CAMeLOT growth stages. I'm guessing since the industrial stages were reassigned more, more of these lots have been modified, but I digress).

Here's what I'm thinking: In theory, to get the IRM zone-segregating functionality (i.e. have HT lots appear only on high density zones, and I-D lots appear only on medium density zones) to work with the CAM lots, all I'd need to do is to go through the CAM lots and adjust the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes, which assigns lots to zones of different densities, to the values of their IRM counterparts. This is straightforward for I-D and I-HT lots, and I can consult the IRM files, which T Wrecks conveniently labeled with the IIDs for the I-M lots.

But I'd like to use T Wrecks' beautiful IRM lots using CAM stats, and I'm not sure how to do this. The logic should be that I need to repoint the IRM's LotConfiguration files to the CAM building examplars (if they exist), and if they don't exist, the Maxis examplars (for the ones that don't have CAM building examplars). The problem I have is that I don't understand what connects a lot to its building exemplar (and I'm thinking this is just my naiveity, because PIM-X can do this so clearly there is an answer to this question). Could I trouble someone to enlighten me on this topic?

Edit: I noticed the "LotConfigPropertyFamily" on the lots corresponds to "Building/prop family" on the building examplars. I feel like that can't be it though, since if that's the case, and assuming the IRM lots have "LotConfigPropertyFamily" values that match the CAM's building examplar "Building/prop family" values, then all I'd have to do is to ensure that the IRM lots load after the CAM lots, and it would work. That seems too trivial for everyone to have overlooked so far though.

[mgb204]

Couldn't you just simply remove the CAM Industrials, then go through each of the IRM lots adjusting the values to reflect those of CAM using PIM-X, then you wouldn't have to muck around cross-referencing different lot/building exemplars? I ask, because I don't have or use CAM, just seem the simplest solution to me.

[Shadowstrike]

That's what I thought initially, but I noticed that the IRM lots have LotConfigurations, but not Building values (i.e. jobs, pollution, etc.) - as far as I understand it refers back to the Maxis examplars. I'm not sure how to put them in, but there must be a way. But to do that, I'd still need to learn how the LotConfigs connect to the building data.

[FrankU]

I don't think step 2 is really required...you could just put the updated IRM lots into the load order after the CAM ones so they override the CAM ones.

I don't know if anybody has actually done the full conversion of the IRM yet...the OP never came back to say he had it working.

This OP, does that mean original poster, meaning: me? I never went further with this, because I am too busy with my Lotting projects, but the issue still interests me.

[vortext]

wait a minute. . 

Okay, I just checked the CAM and IRM and it appears to be quite simple (famous last words  ).

Both mods contain identical Maxis content and as such will override all vanilla industries. However, the IRM only contains lot exemplars. This is good news since most of the CAM-ified stats are found in the building exemplars, which are in the CAM obviously. The only exception to this is the Growth Stage. You'd need to change the Growth Stage for the IRM lots to correct CAM stages. Admittedly cross checking this is gonna be a bit tedious. 

However, once you've done so the IRM just needs to load after the CAM (thus overriding the otherwise vanilla lots). Or you could delete all the industrial lots from the CAM. Either way, it ought to work. Keep in mind though this is theory and testing it thoroughly is another matter. You'd need a city developed far enough for stage 4 ID lots before you can get any confirmation it functions properly.

The problem I have is that I don't understand what connects a lot to its building exemplar (and I'm thinking this is just my naiveity, because PIM-X can do this so clearly there is an answer to this question).

The LotConfigPropertyLotObjectData starting with 0x00000000 references the Building Exemplar via the 13th rep.