Civil engineering support thread: slope mods, other tools and issues

[Ennedi]

@macbony: I think I understand your problem, but it would be much better if you would show it on the picture(s), seeing it I could give you more precise advice.

@caspervg: I'm preparing an answer for you, I had to make some pictures.
- If you created a road bridge raised above the surrounding terrain, dragging a road downhill will really cause a digging effect (as I understand this is your problem). But you can drag a street and then drag a road along it without any bulldozing and "slowly replacing" it with the road tiles. If you used rail to make a slope, you must bulldoze it of course, but you can simply bulldoze it and drag a road without any slowly replacing too.
- Thinking about an answer for you I found also another nice method of creating non-road bridges  . It will be interesting also for patch110 and (I suppose) for some other players too.
My time is a bit limited now, I think I will prepare everything for tomorrow.

Adam

[Paris]

I have tiles with no tops.

I assume it's a problem, although it offers some interesting possibilities...

Was doing some terraforming for a Hydro Elect Dam when I managed to produce a knife's edge tile; I've never seen this in the game before (see images)

NAM aside the only plugins installed are Ennedi's Slope Mod and Shadow Assassin Hole digging lots.

Any thoughts?

[alexr19]

Hi, guys. I scanned the thread, but I'm not sure anyone else had my problem. I have the hole-digging lots and they work great for that, but my problem is that I'm unable to delete them.  So after plopping the lot, digging the hole, and deleting the "excess" road, the hole digging lot remains. What could be the issue?

[Pat]

Adam thank you for the slope mod and Im going to make wonderful use of it!!!

[threestooges]

-Paris: That effect is completely normal and is (as far as I can recall) just a matter of careful terrafoming. It can produce some beneficial effects too. I believe dedgren, in 3RR (exactly where I'm not sure) showed how to take advantage of the games retaining wall for roads and that knife edge trick to make a road topped dam. It should only be two tiles wide to produce the effect, and therefore does not present the game a chance to level things off. Hope that helps.

[Shadow Assassin]

So after plopping the lot, digging the hole, and deleting the "excess" road, the hole digging lot remains. What could be the issue?

Did you bulldoze the lot (or try to)?

Otherwise, it seems to be a case of the infamous immortal lot syndrome. I've never had that happen personally, and this lot was tested through normal use. You'll have to plop the same lot surrounding that lot, then bulldoze them all simultaneously.

I'm not sure why this happens, actually.

[Ennedi]

Hi, guys. I scanned the thread, but I'm not sure anyone else had my problem. I have the hole-digging lots and they work great for that, but my problem is that I'm unable to delete them.  So after plopping the lot, digging the hole, and deleting the "excess" road, the hole digging lot remains. What could be the issue?

I'm not a specialist of the "immortal lot syndrome", but I suppose your issue is rather caused by something in your system, or something what happened when you installed SA digging lots. I used these lots many times, both during testing and later, and never had any problem with bulldozing them.
Long time ago I had similar problem with a few lots and it was temporary. I had also a strange issue with old Smoncrie's Hole Digging Lots - I was able to bulldoze them, but after bulldozing the digger and building a tunnel I saw an excavator over the tunnel entrance  . It happened only in one region and didn't repeat in other ones.
I know my answer is not very helpful, I will ask somebody more experienced (I think RippleJet should know much more about it) for an advice.

Threestoges and Shadow Assassin, thank you very much for help, my time is horribly limited last few days 

[macbony]

Sorry I took so long to respond. I had no SC4 time for a few days. Here's two pics, one of the intersection and one of the parallel ramps for both highway types. The tooltip mentions onslope pieces, so I could be misguided and might not even have the correct plugin.

[ScottFTL]

Otherwise, it seems to be a case of the infamous immortal lot syndrome. I've never had that happen personally, and this lot was tested through normal use. You'll have to plop the same lot surrounding that lot, then bulldoze them all simultaneously.  I'm not sure why this happens, actually.

To quote Jeronij from another thread,  "The root of the problem lies in the lot design. Some part of the building blueprint is a little bit outside the lot dimensions. This makes the game think that the building is not only in the lot, but also in the terrain / lot where the building footprint is placed."

I'm not sure if there are other causes of Immortal Lot Syndrome, but I figured I would pass the information along.  I haven't tried the new hole diggers yet myself, but soon!

[Shadow Assassin]

To quote Jeronij from another thread,  "The root of the problem lies in the lot design. Some part of the building blueprint is a little bit outside the lot dimensions. This makes the game think that the building is not only in the lot, but also in the terrain / lot where the building footprint is placed."

I am aware of that, it's just that the Immortal Lot syndrome can be entirely random, and affect lots that don't have anything sticking out beyond the boundaries. I checked the building blueprint, all it is is just an invisible building.

Now, I'm not sure if that's a no-no, but since this lot was intended as a terraforming assistance tool, that point is well, moot. Keep in mind, though, that Lot Editor won't let you save a lot if any of the building is outside the lot boundaries: that has to be done by ilive's reader... and I have not modified the parameters related to that, only the parameters related to the transit-enabling of this lot.

[RippleJet]

I am aware of that, it's just that the Immortal Lot syndrome can be entirely random, and affect lots that don't have anything sticking out beyond the boundaries. I checked the building blueprint, all it is is just an invisible building.

I had a look at the lots myself, and none of them should suffer from the Immortal Lot Syndrome.
  - They all have a LotEditor blueprint of 4×4 m, which isn't even close to the edge of the lot.
  - The occupant size of the invisible building that's centered in that blueprint is in all cases 1×1 m.

It's if the latter (the occupant size) overhangs the lot that you would get the Immortal Lot Syndrome.

Now, I'm not sure if that's a no-no, but since this lot was intended as a terraforming assistance tool, that point is well, moot.

For these kinds of lots, the invisible building is righteously motivated!
After all, there aren't supposed to be any buildings on these lots, and no properties that would be based on the building size.

[alexr19]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I haven't gotten a chance to play in a few days, but when I do I'll try the hole-diggers again and see what happens. 

[ebina]

Could new hole digger lots be updated for those who want to install only needed lots instead of installing all lots?

Someone has reported a issue at MAS71's wiki. He said "14m digger crashes the game when I tried to plop it. But if I installed 6 or more lots from download, then the game does not crash." I got same issue. Maybe many people(including me) would have installed all lots, so anyone didn't notice this bug.

From looking into files, all lots excluding 8m ones need to be edited to avoid the crashing. Last values of "LotConfigPropertyLotObject" that start with 0x00000000 should be the same values as IID of the lot itself.(or "Lot Resource Key" in another exemplar? Since I haven't tested this matter, I don't know which is right.) This picture shows what I'm saying.

[Shadow Assassin]

I thought I edited them... it is odd.

Then again, my computer was acting a little unusual at the time. I've tried to fix the problem (that was why I delayed the release), but I don't know how it somehow came up again.

Perhaps I'll have to look at them again. It's a simple problem to fix, but hugely irritating, because I have to find the offending IIDs, and it seems I apparently missed a few (it's entirely my fault, I swear I had changed them all manually).

So much for the "shortcut" way... Believe me when I say that I did check the lots to make sure they did work, I just couldn't fix it at the time, because I couldn't find what was wrong... otherwise they worked perfectly. (I believe there were five or so IIDs that needed to be changed for the lot to work)

It can be done quite easily, only a 5 minute job. Unfortunately, I don't have any time to do it at the moment.

[superhands]

engineers, i have a problem.
playing around with my plugins folder, i removed ennedi's slope mod to the desktop, then when i put it back in, played the game, the RHW became affected by it?

[Ennedi]

My mod affects RHW as all other networks, ie. it modifies the maximum slope along network and it's smoothness (maximum slope change between neighboring tiles). RHW placement parameters were adjusted during this mod creation, as I remember they are similar to avenue parameters.

If you had your slope mod installed before NAM (and RHW) earlier, it didn't affect the RHW of course (it affected all other networks because their placement parameters are adjusted in simcity1.dat and the slope mod exemplar will overwrite them independently from it's position in the Plugins folder). RHW uses an additional unfinished Maxis transit network (it is called "Dirt Road" in simcity1.dat transit network placement exemplars). RHW files are needed to appear this network, so it's every modification (for example different textures, and also the slope mod affecting RHW) should be installed after the RHW folder.
Maybe you changed the slope mod position removing it and then returning back to plugins?

Previous slope mods (BRF, CSX, BRF/JRJ) didn't modify RHW parameters. There is a slope mod for RHW in kt3 series (separate slope mods for various networks).

If you are speaking about other events with RHW, please explain what you mean exactly. Some pictures would be very helpful.

Adam

[HandsOn]

Ok, for the first time ever I read every message in this thread. That ought get me some champagne (Laurent-Perrier, svp..). ANd it leaves me with several questions. Slope Mode first:
I tried Ennedi's recently, in Barsalonia (brilliant, undulating region). Ton's of slopes, hill, etc. And I did try all three versions. I ad to stop using them because I ended up having huge problems with rail. I tend to use tunnels under city regions to get a large pass-through traffic, and connecting tangential rails, or creating rail interchanges is problematic. Same for bridge approaches. Moreover, I ended up redoing harbour flats over and over again because streets/roads would not connect - unsuitable terrain, or some such message - became extremely frequent. Thus I wonder if I am doing something wrong???

I also saw the mention of indistructable lots: while I never had that with hole digging lots (old or new), I do have an annoying old download (no longer to be found on either STEX nor LEX) of a small urban school: initially it plops fine, gives the right stats, but after a "decade or so the building vanishes, and the lot becomes unremovable (pic below). So, does anyone have a solution for this (because I cannot find the building in the plug-in folder, either)??

[RippleJet]

I also saw the mention of indistructable lots: while I never had that with hole digging lots (old or new), I do have an annoying old download (no longer to be found on either STEX nor LEX) of a small urban school: initially it plops fine, gives the right stats, but after a "decade or so the building vanishes, and the lot becomes unremovable (pic below). So, does anyone have a solution for this (because I cannot find the building in the plug-in folder, either)??

Unfortunately you would have to find the SC4Lot file with that school, since the occupant size of the building exemplar needs to be reduced in order to fix the Immortal Lot Syndrome. If you manage to locate that file, please enclose it to a post here and I'll take a look at it and tell you how to fix it.

[HandsOn]

Unfortunately you would have to find the SC4Lot file with that school, since the occupant size of the building exemplar needs to be reduced in order to fix the Immortal Lot Syndrome. If you manage to locate that file, please enclose it to a post here and I'll take a look at it and tell you how to fix it.

Therein lies the rub: I've gone through all my schools (all located neatly in a \civic\schools\ folder) with the SC4 Tool and tried to find it with the Reader, but thus no luck. Yet the icon is still in the menu. I do know it was a simple lot-tweaking job in the original, because the main building is merely an SC4 medium wealth office or some such. I'll look again..drat!

Thanks,

[MAS71]

@Shadow Assassin
Hello Shadow Assassin and all.

I want to speak about your useful work NHP Hole Digging Lots today.
Please remeber a post about EBINA san. I got(noticed) same problem yesterday me too.
and I read EBINA san's post and I had try to correct value for your each LOTs.

These are Instance of LOT and a 13th value of "LotConfigPropertyLotObject" each LOTs now.

LOT	Lot Instance	13th value
8m dig	0x74C45710	0x74C45710	Good
8m rais	0x34C4572A	0x34C4572A	Good
10m dig	0x74C45780	0x74C45710	Bad
10m ras	0x54C45786	0x34C4572A	Bad
12m dig	0xF4C45740	0x74C45710	Bad
12m ras	0xD4C45747	0x34C4572A	Bad
14m dig	0x74C45753	0x74C45710	Bad
14m ras	0x14c45759	0x34C4572A	Bad
15m dig	0xB4C45763	0x74C45710	Bad
15m ras	0xD4C45769	0x34C4572A	Bad
24m dig	0xD4C45794	0x74C45710	Bad
24m ras	0x54C4579A	0x34C4572A	Bad

I think you able to understand well that all LOT except 8m(dig/raise) has same value with 8m(dig/raise) instance.
so a game is crashed when plop them without 8m-LOTs(dig/raise) in Plugins folder.
(All of LOTs dependence 8m(dig/raise)-Lot. of course, they are not opend on L.E. too now.)

I think that your NHP-HoleDiggingLots is very useful more than originals.  
so Please update corrected LOTs if you could for us who want to use them.

Now, They are working very well in the game now.(I alredy corrected them)
If you have no time for remake them by yourself, or If you need them. I would send my corrected LOTs for you.


Thank you for reading.
and Thank you again Ebina san for your precise　point.