Civil engineering support thread: slope mods, other tools and issues

[FrankU]

Ennedi,

I have been using your "Flat Slope Mod", as I call it, extensively.
I found one curious bug.
When placing the puzzle piece that connects the raised ground highway to the raised highway in a diagonal direction I get veeeery deep holes in my highway and in my landscape. A orthogonal connection looks fine.



Funny enough it it not hard to reapiar the holes by placing road onramp puzzle pieces over the holes.

[sim-al2]

I've seen big potholes but those are deadly... what are you doing running a highway through such a large tidal flat anyway?

[FrankU]

I am building a new region and am working on the main infrastructure: highways and rail.
These flat areas are becoming my sea port.
I guess I'll show some results, eventually.

[Jonathan]

Well I realized I hadn't got Ennedi's Slope Mod installed (stupid me I know) I just has the maxis one, which stopped the leveler from working.
So if a list of shapes and sizes wanted or needed can be given I can add these to the NAM, and hopefully in the next release. These are really simple to create so any shape or size (and possibly not in the 16x16 'limit').

Jonathan

[FrankU]

Jonathan,
Adding it to the NAM would be fantastic.
What I think would be nice to have is: A leveller one tile wide and one that is two tiles wide with each a length of about 10 tiles. Hopefully then it will be possible to place them directly next to each other for making large lengths of raised or sunken roads/highways/rail.
Another thing that would be really great is a leveller that levels an area to an exact heigth. Especially the moreoften desired seaport level. So that an area of, say 3x3 or 6x6, will be levelled to seaport level, no matter what level it was. Is that possible? Sonds like PEG's leveller tool, but that somehow does not seem to work right when I use it.

[Jonathan]

You will have to use the lot diggers and raisers then plop at least 2 tile with the road tool. Then when using the Leveler it make it bigger.
Also it is not compatible with the Maxis slope mod. So far I only ever have used Ennedi's slope mod and know it works with that, other slope mods I have no idea about.
Also you must plop it on one of two touching road tile, else it will lower the land by a small but noticable amount.

Jonathan

[crushedcar]

Hi, I am having trouble with Ennedi's Slope Mod. In particular the problem is that it will not allow me to construct avenue or highway bridges. Usually I get a message that says "Unsuitable grade for construction," although occassionally it will give me a message saying "Cannot place network on this terrain type." I am using the Mountain version of the slope mod.

[GoaSkin]

Hello,

the slope MODs conflict with all the tunnel entrance MODs because they're using the same exemplars to define the slope of the entrance tiles. In my NAM TOOL, this is solved with a dialog where the user can select bethween various tunnel entrances and choose to emulate the Tunnel And Slope MOD. Actually, the only slope MOD to be emulated is the one by Andreas Roth and I did not know that there are lots of other ones besides. This means I have to implement a select box where the user can select bethween all existing MODs.

Is the table on the first page of this thread still valid or have the values of the slope MODs almost been changed meanwhile?

[Ennedi]

Sorry for late reply, I'm very busy in RL now.

Hi, I am having trouble with Ennedi's Slope Mod. In particular the problem is that it will not allow me to construct avenue or highway bridges. Usually I get a message that says "Unsuitable grade for construction," although occassionally it will give me a message saying "Cannot place network on this terrain type." I am using the Mountain version of the slope mod.

1. My slope mods modify some of the transit network placing parameters to make networks more smooth. But smoother network needs less steep terrain to be placed successfully. Because of it some people have problems with modifying their existing networks after installing my slope mods, the height difference between two ends of the projected network is simply too high. The same issue can happen when you are trying to build a bridge, when the terrain on one or both sides is too steep.
The solution in this case is to build a road bridge first. Roads in my slope mods have different parameters than other networks (it was widely discussed in my MD "Ennedi Plays Shosaloza") and you should easily build a road bridge in every case. When you have the road bridge, use road tool to level some terrain at its ends, then bulldoze the bridge. Now you have two areas of the sanme height on both sides of the river, and you should be able to build another bridge (highway, avenue, rail...) successfully.

2. You can build various parts of your transit networks using various slope mods.. For example, you can use my slope mod to make smooth rails and highways, then you can remove it from plugins and build more steep road in the specific place, or build a bridge. If you will remove the slope mod from plugins (or replace it by another one), your previously built transit networks will not be destroyed!

3. I prepared a special slope mod to make both water and land bridges easy in all situations, but it will work as a temporary mod. I have some other temporary mods prepared, but I must find some time to make an explanation what are temporary mods and how to use them. Then I will be able to release these mods
Anyway, it is possible to build a water and land bridge exactly in every situation. I will try to explain it and release new tools as soon as possible.

Hello,

the slope MODs conflict with all the tunnel entrance MODs because they're using the same exemplars to define the slope of the entrance tiles. In my NAM TOOL, this is solved with a dialog where the user can select bethween various tunnel entrances and choose to emulate the Tunnel And Slope MOD. Actually, the only slope MOD to be emulated is the one by Andreas Roth and I did not know that there are lots of other ones besides. This means I have to implement a select box where the user can select bethween all existing MODs.

Is the table on the first page of this thread still valid or have the values of the slope MODs almost been changed meanwhile?

Any slope mods (including mine) doesn't change tunnel models heights in the exemplar "Transit Network Placement Parameters". So the only confict between the slope mod and the tunnel entrance mod can happen if the custom tunnel entrance for the given network is different than original (for example the default tunnel entrance height for road is 13,8 m and it is the same in all existing slope mods. If you will make the tunnel entrance mod with the tunnel height different than 13,8 m, you will have a conflict)
Yes, the table on the first page of this thread is still valid, at least when we speak about tunnel entrance models height.

Adam

[GoaSkin]

Actually, there are three known tunnel models using different heights:

rail tunnels:
original: 7.25
european (by fukuda): 10.2
japanese (by caribou): 15.0

road/oneway tunnels:
original: 13.8
SC2K skin (by HamsterTK): 13.0

Additionally they all reference to different building exemplars because this way it is possible to use a different skin for new tunnels while the existing ones exist like they are; so it is possible to have as many tunnel skins in use simultanously as you like.

[Ennedi]

(...) Additionally they all reference to different building exemplars because this way it is possible to use a different skin for new tunnels while the existing ones exist like they are; so it is possible to have as many tunnel skins in use simultanously as you like.

Yes!
If somebody would like to use the tunnel entrance mod together with the slope mod, he don't need to use an exemplar consisting of all transit network placement parameters; he can create a new exemplar and put only properties connected with tunnels into it. This exemplar should be loaded after the slope mod ie it should be placed into plugins after the slope mod file.
It should be easy to do in your SC4 Config program.

Adam

Edit: It is a bit uncomfortable that Caribou's rail tunnel entrance model is 15 m high. It will cause problems when somebody will want to use this model in typical sunken networks. Sunken networks and rail/road embankments are usually 15 m deep (high) when we want to create viaducts and use raised network pieces. Raised networks are 14 or 15 m high.
It would be good to modify that tunnel entrance model (in the Reader, using Chrisim's method) and make it not higher than 13,9 m.

[ldog]

1. My slope mods modify some of the transit network placing parameters to make networks more smooth. But smoother network needs less steep terrain to be placed successfully. Because of it some people have problems with modifying their existing networks after installing my slope mods, the height difference between two ends of the projected network is simply too high. The same issue can happen when you are trying to build a bridge, when the terrain on one or both sides is too steep.
The solution in this case is to build a road bridge first. Roads in my slope mods have different parameters than other networks (it was widely discussed in my MD "Ennedi Plays Shosaloza") and you should easily build a road bridge in every case. When you have the road bridge, use road tool to level some terrain at its ends, then bulldoze the bridge. Now you have two areas of the sanme height on both sides of the river, and you should be able to build another bridge (highway, avenue, rail...) successfully.

2. You can build various parts of your transit networks using various slope mods.. For example, you can use my slope mod to make smooth rails and highways, then you can remove it from plugins and build more steep road in the specific place, or build a bridge. If you will remove the slope mod from plugins (or replace it by another one), your previously built transit networks will not be destroyed!

3. I prepared a special slope mod to make both water and land bridges easy in all situations, but it will work as a temporary mod. I have some other temporary mods prepared, but I must find some time to make an explanation what are temporary mods and how to use them. Then I will be able to release these mods
Anyway, it is possible to build a water and land bridge exactly in every situation. I will try to explain it and release new tools as soon as possible.

Adam

I had so much trouble laying bridges I put this mod in and took it right out again. Tryed all 3 versions. Not to mention I got hooked on the smooth versions slopes. While the values may seem strict compared to Maxis defaults, by civil engineering guidelines they are still very lenient (not that the game engine has much to do with reality as I am learning). There was no going back to Bones mod which I was using before. So what I did was took the default file and set your values into it (sans the displacement and cost changes). The thing is the 35m displacement effect is enough to make one quite insane. The NAM wide angle curves have the same holedigging problems with my mod as well.

So today I put your mod back in (sans only the cost changes this time ) which of course drove me batty not being able to make bridges. Also the few times I was able to lay them, I had the opposite effect; instead of the stupid digging, the roadbed got raised, A LOT. Which to me was just as bad.

I think I found a solution.  A small change of the displacement to just 5 seemed to eliminate both of my problems and beats the hell out of having to swap mods in and out just to make a bridge.

I also lowered the road to 30 and Shadow Assassin's hole digger 24m still works. I'm wondering if it can be adjusted lower still without breaking it.

Also thanks, not just for making this mod and sharing it, but for making the tables of values and explaining how things work. I like modding probably even more than playing so learning new things about how a plugin works always makes me happy. 

[Ennedi]

I had so much trouble laying bridges I put this mod in and took it right out again. Tryed all 3 versions. Not to mention I got hooked on the smooth versions slopes. While the values may seem strict compared to Maxis defaults, by civil engineering guidelines they are still very lenient (not that the game engine has much to do with reality as I am learning). There was no going back to Bones mod which I was using before. So what I did was took the default file and set your values into it (sans the displacement and cost changes). The thing is the 35m displacement effect is enough to make one quite insane. The NAM wide angle curves have the same holedigging problems with my mod as well.

So today I put your mod back in (sans only the cost changes this time ) which of course drove me batty not being able to make bridges. Also the few times I was able to lay them, I had the opposite effect; instead of the stupid digging, the roadbed got raised, A LOT. Which to me was just as bad.

I think I found a solution.  A small change of the displacement to just 5 seemed to eliminate both of my problems and beats the hell out of having to swap mods in and out just to make a bridge.

I also lowered the road to 30 and Shadow Assassin's hole digger 24m still works. I'm wondering if it can be adjusted lower still without breaking it.

Also thanks, not just for making this mod and sharing it, but for making the tables of values and explaining how things work. I like modding probably even more than playing so learning new things about how a plugin works always makes me happy. 

I'm more than satisfied reading your message. I is not so easy to explain how my mods work and to describe my experiments, but I always hope a few inquisitive players will read my posts and they will not only put these mods into Plugins, but they will want to play with them a bit  . This is very interesting, sometimes even more than building a city  It also gives me an opportunity to learn new things, my way of thinking is not the only one and somebody else can have a better idea.

I didn't want to make displacement more than 0 for other networks than road, because i wanted to eliminate raising at all. But you found a good compromise, if it works for you - very well!

You can find some information about my slope mods in my MD. If you like modding, I suggest you also to try my "Bridges and levelling slope mod" - you can find it here, the mod is attached to the message.
This mod has two functions, the link above leads you to the description how to build bridges, the second function is levelling the terrain much easier and more efficiently. It is especially useful when you want to quickly prepare large flat areas. I described it here.

I'm going to release this mod such as some other ones I made a few moths ago. But I still haven't enough time, I have a lot of RL work.

Maybe it is off-topic, but after all it is a civil engineering thread  , so Ill show you what takes me so much time:
This is a huge boiler building (140 meters high) during erection in one of the biggest Polish power plants.





A view from 135 m level to the plant



...And to the building site - quite nice Simcity, isn't it? 



The steel structure of the building was painted in workshop, then paint covers were badly damaged during erection



Now I'm making an expertise of these damages and then my company will probably make renovation works, it will need several months.
But I'm trying to find some time for SC4 and I'm going to prepare some new mods soon 

Adam

[ldog]

I'm more than satisfied reading your message. I is not so easy to explain how my mods work and to describe my experiments, but I always hope a few inquisitive players will read my posts and they will not only put these mods into Plugins, but they will want to play with them a bit  . This is very interesting, sometimes even more than building a city  It also gives me an opportunity to learn new things, my way of thinking is not the only one and somebody else can have a better idea.

I didn't want to make displacement more than 0 for other networks than road, because i wanted to eliminate raising at all. But you found a good compromise, if it works for you - very well!

You can find some information about my slope mods in my MD. If you like modding, I suggest you also to try my "Bridges and levelling slope mod" - you can find it here, the mod is attached to the message.
This mod has two functions, the link above leads you to the description how to build bridges, the second function is levelling the terrain much easier and more efficiently. It is especially useful when you want to quickly prepare large flat areas. I described it here.

I'm going to release this mod such as some other ones I made a few moths ago. But I still haven't enough time, I have a lot of RL work.

Maybe it is off-topic, but after all it is a civil engineering thread  , so Ill show you what takes me so much time:
This is a huge boiler building (140 meters high) during erection in one of the biggest Polish power plants.
Adam

Thanks. I will check them out too. I'm sure my technique needs work as well. I've actually gone up to about 7, because it can still be really troublesome over "more interesting terrain" but then the displacement starts getting annoying again. Like you, I am finding that I have very little tolerance for the effect. Also lowered road to 25 and hole diggers still work, although probably not in every instance. I only tested them on flat terrain.

Really cool pics. Especially the massive cooling towers. Are you up in a helicopter for some of them?

[MattyFo]

I just downloaded your slope mod, this is probably going ot make me look stupid but,  I can't even build a avenue!!!!
Even the slightest slope is "unsuitable grade for construction"  what am I doing wrong???

[joelyboy911]

Did you perhaps install the most radical version of the mod? I think there are some more mild forms.

[Jayster]

I recently downloaded your slope mod. I haven't had luck with any in the past. A long time ago I had a slope mod that worked great, but it stopped one day. I tried downloading yours, read the readme, selected one of the slope mods (medium one) and put it in my plugins folder. It didn't work. Hopefully you can help me.

[Ennedi]

I recently downloaded your slope mod. I haven't had luck with any in the past. A long time ago I had a slope mod that worked great, but it stopped one day. I tried downloading yours, read the readme, selected one of the slope mods (medium one) and put it in my plugins folder. It didn't work. Hopefully you can help me.

Most probably you have another slope mod installed in your plugins. It can be also a reson why your old slope mod "stopped one day". If you want to check it without make a time - consuming investigation, try to create a subfolder in your Plugins, call it "zzz_slope_mod" and put my slope mod there. If it will work, I'm right and I would suggest you to find that another one - just to have your Plugins well - organized. If the slope mod will still not work, inform me please.

Adam

[Jayster]

I actually did find another slope mod installed which I thought was odd. I deleted it and I'm going to go try it out. And I'll do that too, put it in the folder with 'zzz' in front of it. Thanks!

EDIT: Well I put it in the folder 'zzz_slope_mod' and it still didn't work. I do have the BTM Mod and that comes with its own slope mod so maybe if thats the problem then what do I do? I'm pretty sure I could delete the BTM Mod because I don't use it much and I prefer the HSRP over it actually. Thanks for your help yet again.

EDIT: I think I may have gotten it to work somehow. It worked with the RHW so I think I'm good. I'll post back here again if it doesn't work.

EDIT: So far it only works with RHW.

[lasa]

where can I download this mod?