New Additions to RTMT

[cogeo]

Maybe you could do something radically different (non-standard). For example the purple title bar could go completely, as could the semitransparent border (with the curved corners) too. Some lots have such custom query dialogs.

The RTMT logo could instead be used as a soft background (watermark-style), covering the whole surface of the dialog box (and in this case the colors could be turned to BW, and then "colorizeed" to a pale gray-green or gray-brownish tint.

Also the NAM-certified logo could be removed completely, as it serves no purpose, and it's so hard to integrate well in the query. It's visually disruptive (as is the colorful RTMT logo), and I think this is what caused the complaints, not that it's "big". The right places to put the NAM logo is on the image in the LEX upload and the "Welcome" screen of the installer, and this is enough, I think.

In V3 the "Service Quality" icons for the bus-only and subway-only stations were the standard Maxis ones, while for the combo a combined icon was made. The benefit of this was using icons familiar to players. The "light rail" icon in simcity is the same as the subway one, so it was possible to cover all combinations with only three queries). Of course, the GLR (tram) has the same icon as the subway, but this is also the case in simcity too, so no complaints here. Now, if you make a custom icon for GLR, this looks unfamiliar, and I would like to see how this would look in the Bus+Sub+GLR case (not to mention combinations with U-Rail). So I would propose using the old technique here, maybe with redesigning the combo icon (making it as tall as the others, and placing the two parts diagonally, not horizontally).

[catty]

The RTMT logo could instead be used as a soft background (watermark-style), covering the whole surface of the dialog box (and in this case the colors could be turned to BW, and then "colorizeed" to a pale gray-green or gray-brownish tint.

I like the sound of that and it would give the RTMT UI Window a very distinct look, you could still have the NAM-certified logo but as a small stamp at the bottom in one of the corners like some of the CAM queries 

[pierreh]

I could very well live with the query box as shown in z's earlier message above. After all, bringing up the display of these boxes is only for verification, checking that things run well - or not, etc; after the checking the box is closed. Also, logo sizes and shapes are a matter of taste, it would be difficult to satisfy everyone anyway. What matters most is the information in the box. I favor functionality over cosmetics.

[z]

It appears that we have as many opinions as users here.  I haven't seen this much enthusiasm since the menu button discussion.   

Anyway, my job is to try to satisfy as many people as possible here.  And I'll be the first to admit that I'm no graphics artist.  So let's see what we can do...

Maybe you could do something radically different (non-standard). For example the purple title bar could go completely, as could the semitransparent border (with the curved corners) too. Some lots have such custom query dialogs.

This is certainly possible at some point, but it would have to be done by someone with more skills (and time) than I.

The RTMT logo could instead be used as a soft background (watermark-style), covering the whole surface of the dialog box (and in this case the colors could be turned to BW, and then "colorizeed" to a pale gray-green or gray-brownish tint.

I was originally thinking of something along these lines myself, although I was thinking of simply lightening the colors.  Something like this:

First, I should say that for someone whose talents do not lie in this area, this is enormously time consuming.  And I didn't even get it right.  The most obvious thing is the way the title overflows the title box, but in fact, all the corners are the wrong shape.  I stared at the part Daeley's tutorial that deals with making these custom backgrounds for quite a while, and I had no idea what he was talking about.  But as it says in the old Beatles song, I found out, I found out...

So I know how to fix this, but that makes these things even messier to make.  And I think the background is a bit on the light side, but if I make it darker, the foreground print becomes harder to read.  I know this has been done successfully plenty of times, but I don't think I'm the one to do this.

As for the colorized version, I really like the way those were done for the RTMT installers.  But again, I do have some concerns about the readability of the foreground print with that type of approach.  If someone wants to do this, I'd be happy to look at some samples (and furnish the needed files), but I don't think it would be wise to try to get this into the V3.60 release.

Also the NAM-certified logo could be removed completely, as it serves no purpose, and it's so hard to integrate well in the query. It's visually disruptive (as is the colorful RTMT logo), and I think this is what caused the complaints, not that it's "big". The right places to put the NAM logo is on the image in the LEX upload and the "Welcome" screen of the installer, and this is enough, I think.

As for the location of the NAM logo, I left it right where the NAM Team put it.  I agree that it's most important for the uploaded files and the installer, but I actually like it on the queries as well.  In any case, I shall abide by the wishes of the users here (so people need to let me know their views).

In V3 the "Service Quality" icons for the bus-only and subway-only stations were the standard Maxis ones, while for the combo a combined icon was made. The benefit of this was using icons familiar to players. The "light rail" icon in simcity is the same as the subway one, so it was possible to cover all combinations with only three queries). Of course, the GLR (tram) has the same icon as the subway, but this is also the case in simcity too, so no complaints here. Now, if you make a custom icon for GLR, this looks unfamiliar, and I would like to see how this would look in the Bus+Sub+GLR case (not to mention combinations with U-Rail). So I would propose using the old technique here, maybe with redesigning the combo icon (making it as tall as the others, and placing the two parts diagonally, not horizontally).

This is one place where you surprised me - I was sure you were going to like the tram icons!  They're so cute.    Actually I was impressed by how much detail it was possible to squeeze into a 24x17 icon.

This is the only vehicle icon that I changed, and the only one I planned to change.  One problem with the trams is that too much of the game treats them as el trains that have somehow lost their way.    By creating a separate icon for them in the query, one that is so obviously a tram, this problem is addressed at least here, as it's easy to see at glance what kind of station this is.  This is especially helpful considering that the names of some of these stations run off the end of the title bar.  I think that this would reduce confusion, not increase it, and I would hope that other station builders might consider this icon as well.  And URail and GLR are never used in the same station, nor is anything planned where they would be.  So unless there's a really negative reaction to this from others, I'd like to stick with the tram icon.

Meanwhile, I've already conceded that things were a bit cluttered in my initial design, so I've come up with an easily implemented alternative, which spaces things out more in various ways:

The symmetry here appeals to me, and I think that moving the two icons apart helps.  I've also made the "Close" button smaller, as it didn't have to be so big.  What do people think of this query?  Personally, I'd be happy with this as a permanent solution.  But as I mentioned earlier, I'm also open to other alternatives; they'd just have to wait until the V4 release.  (And someone else would have to do them.)  So I'd appreciate it if people would let me know what they think of this query, either temporarily or permanently.  And further minor adjustments can be easily made, of course.

[0rion79]

They are both better than the first one and I like the last one more than all the others 

[catty]

They are both better than the first one and I like the last one more than all the others 

I agree the last one looks nice 

maybe the one with the watermark background could be looked at again for V4 

[Andreas]

The symmetry in the last pic is definitely appealing, but you should be careful with resizing the in-game buttons - in other languages, the word "Close" might be longer, and will be either cut off or overflowing the button. I also like the version with the RTMT logo in the background; with some filetuning, this could work very nicely. Just be careful that the embedded PNG doesn't get too large, in order to keep it resource-friendly. I'd say the "NAM Certified" logo isn't mandatory, but on the other hand, it's some kind of quality badge, so I'd vote for keeping it.

[z]

...you should be careful with resizing the in-game buttons - in other languages, the word "Close" might be longer, and will be either cut off or overflowing the button.

Good point, although I would expect in this case that the word "Close" is basic enough that it shouldn't be too long in any language.  Does anyone know of an exception?

I also like the version with the RTMT logo in the background; with some filetuning, this could work very nicely. Just be careful that the embedded PNG doesn't get too large, in order to keep it resource-friendly.

As you might expect, the background logo takes up a lot more space than the tiny logos at the bottom.  But we're still talking a fraction of a megabyte, and I would assume that there would be only one copy of such a PNG in memory for a given query UI layout.

I'd say the "NAM Certified" logo isn't mandatory, but on the other hand, it's some kind of quality badge, so I'd vote for keeping it.

Yes, I like it too. 

[cogeo]

I was originally thinking of something along these lines myself, although I was thinking of simply lightening the colors.  Something like this:

Not bad as a first attempt (apart from the stretching problems). The reason I proposed a watermark rather than a color version is because it would look more "serious" that way, the colors (esp that pink on the M) make it looking a bit "cheapo" imo. RTMT is a great pack, and it only deserves the best of the best. Also, making a custom dialog frame bitmap isn't hard at all, and I'm going to make one within the weekend, or even today night.

As for the location of the NAM logo, I left it right where the NAM Team put it.  I agree that it's most important for the uploaded files and the installer, but I actually like it on the queries as well.  In any case, I shall abide by the wishes of the users here (so people need to let me know their views).

The NAM logo (although NAM itself is glorious) admittedly isn't exactly an example of logo design. The black area occupies a relatively large portion of the logo; it tends to somehow overtake or dominate the dialog visually, and this is what caused the comments. And in this example the "Service Quality" icon is a little "big" too, somehow "balancing" the whole thing; with normal-height icons it would look even worse, I guess. Maybe a quite smaller logo - with the black area somewhat "eased" - would look better, if you insist keeping it. But it would still clutter the whole thing, without providing any useful information (players would already know that the pack is NAM-certified, from the LEX image and the installer), and that's why I recommend against it. It's not the same as CAM, in that case it informs the player that it's a CAMelot.

This is one place where you surprised me - I was sure you were going to like the tram icons!  They're so cute.    Actually I was impressed by how much detail it was possible to squeeze into a 24x17 icon.

I didn't say that I don't like the icon, but that you will need an awful lot of queries to cover all combinations, if you are going to use different icons for each transit type. Seven queries will be needed for the bus, subway and GLR stations and the Bus/Sub/GLR icon is almost impossible to be nice-looking. Actually I think the Bus/Sub icon in V3.xx isn't quite good either (too "tall", disrupting the labels' spacing). And in V4 you are about to include El-Rail too; are you going to make another icon for this? You said you won't, but for the sake of consistency you should, if you go this way.

One problem with the trams is that too much of the game treats them as el trains that have somehow lost their way.    By creating a separate icon for them in the query, one that is so obviously a tram, this problem is addressed at least here, as it's easy to see at glance what kind of station this is.

GLR doesn't necessarily mean trams. In many cases the "light rail" and "subway" networks are essentially the same, and the very same trains run underground in the city centre and emerge to ground level in the suburbs. In simcity they are both idntified by the same colour (yellow), and share the same icon in the queries. From many players' perspective they are similar, or at least complementary.

This is especially helpful considering that the names of some of these stations run off the end of the title bar.

The transit types remain in view, it's the network type that run off the end of the title bar.

I'm gonna showcase my proposal here, but not insist in it.

[k808j]

I like the second query much better and you should keep the NAM certification so people won't ask the question "can this be used with NAM".(Even though they will )

[JoeST]

I think the second query is the best I have seen.

[Xyloxadoria]

Theres this old logo i made for RTMT that never got used. I could change the colors or add text if its needed. It would match the NAM logo more than the current one, and i think its a better logo for the query since its more simplistic.

[k808j]

@Xyloxadoria
No disrespect, but this logo looks too busy.

[Xyloxadoria]

heres another version

[cogeo]

Here is my proposal (fast-made, not the final one).



Some notes:
- As you can see, a custom dialog frame has been made.
- The "combo" icon is 24x26, instead of the standard 24x22. It was extended by 1 pixel to the bottom and  3 pixels to the top. This way it is possible to use it without having to change the spacing of the label, and still being aligned with it, and without interfering with the field value under it. The icon contains a part of the standard subway/lightrail icon and the bus one (this one was shrinked a little to make it fit) - this way it was possible to cramp them in a 24x26 rectangle. The obvious advantage of this is familiarity to the players.
- The background image is the RTMT logo (modified to be watermark-like). Instead, it can be changed to something more "artistic", or even the "background" of the RTMT logo (without the RTMT letters - these could be added as an ovelray).
- The button is the standard queries button (hasn't been changed yet). It can be changed to a non-standard one (similar to the dialog's frame) or become transparent (showing only the outline) if I get it to work.
- There is enough space to add logos like "The RTMT Team" or comments and additional information.
- And something I noticed just now (and this is also the case with the "standard" queries as well), the "Service Quality" bitmap can be moved a little to the right, to be aligned with the title and the field values, it will be looking better, I think.

Comments please!

[Amtrak7]

I like z's better.  Cogeo's has a more pleasing aesthetic effect, but there is a lot of wasted space.

[FrankU]

Cogeo: Very nice!
The watermark effect is beautiful and it gives information without distracting from the main info. There is indeed a bit much waste of space. Maybe the spacing could be altered?
I think addition of NAM logo's has no real use. It makes the image too full. Of course I understand that being NAM certified is something to be proud of (would we still be playing this game without NAM?), but showing the certificate is not really inforamtion that is usefull at the moment I open this query. My point is: make the query as empty aspossible, but show everything that is really needed the moment the query is openend. But of course everyeone can have their own thoughts...
Furthermore: I like the use of different logos for the service quality info.

[z]

Just a quick note:  Cogeo's example has "wasted space" simply because he doesn't currently have access to all of the original logo files.  I'll be correcting this later today.  In the mean time, in judging his example, please ignore the spacing issue.

[heitomat]

I must say, I love cogeo's custom dialog frame. Using a custom frame makes the RTMT-queries stand out from the rest (eg. like PEG's stuff). Also, the colours used are nice and relaxing to the eye. 

[cogeo]

Just got an idea, how about using some real photos (preferably vintage) as the background instead of the RTMT logo? There are going to be more than one queries anyway, at least three, so for bus-only stops, for example, the pic could show a bus. And as the photos are most probably going to be landscape-picture-proportioned (width>height) there is going to be less empty space in the query too (the RTMT logo is square).

The problem here is that there is needed one query per station type, ie 7 images will be needed to make all Bus/Sub/GLR combinations (otherwise there would be needed only 3). Another problem is the combo station types. It's quite unlikely to find photos showing more than one transit types, eg a bus running on a road with a subway entrance at the sidewalk (this is RTMT, lol), but a "collage" can be made for these ones.