More Help, Please (with farms)

[thingfishs]

Hi again,
sorry for all the questions but this is my first BAT and I am very keen to have it finished. I have already posted these questions a couple of days ago in my BAT thread (see my signature) but thought this might be a more likely place to get a response. I think my number one issue is that I have created this on a landmark LOT but I want it to be a farming reward. I assume I am going to have to entirely re-LOT this. What, in the event that it can't all be transferred somehow, should I be building it on?

Any ideas how to reduce the amount of gravel in the front carpark without removing the carpark or changing the 5 by 5 layout?

Also any other advice/criticisms gratefully accepted. Bring it on, I can take it.

[xxdita]

A farming reward, like the State Fair? Interesting. You'll need to create a new Reward building exemplar (preferably using SC4PIM), then create the new lot. But once you've done that, you can simply copy over all of the lotting by copying the LotConfigPropertyLotObjects, for the textures and props, then changing the LotConfigPropertyLotObject for the building to match your original.
Of course once that's done, you'll need to work on the LUA to trigger the reward.

As far as the carpark, how about some real parking spaces? I doubt that anyone with a gravel parking lot would have such maintained gardens for their entry. Also, I'd say shift everything over to the left, and put more trees and such on the right side as well.

[thingfishs]

thanks a lot xxdita,

Unfortunately I don't understand how to do much of what you suggested. Exemplars? LUA? LotConfigPropertyLotObjects? I will keep hunting for articles to explain these terms but if anyone can speed up this process it would be great. (FWIW this is also my first SC creation fullstop, I've never made a LOT before either)

I am very happy that I won't have to redo all the props, thanks for letting me know.

I have to disagree with you on the carpark though, this is modeled on the family business, Shottesbrooke Winery, and that's how the carpark is.

[xxdita]

Ah ok then. Take a look at your original lot in SC4PIM.

At the bottom of the screen, you'll see stuff like this:



So just highlight all the props and textures, and right click on Copy Properties:


Now Paste those onto the new Reward Lot.

I strongly suggest you download & read the SC4PIM User Guide, as it will explain a lot of this.

[thingfishs]

thanks again xxdita,


(there was more here but I've already answered my own question so I removed it)

[thingfishs]

(First off, as this has become PIMX specific, I am assuming it should be moved elsewhere?)

I haven't got far with this, after a bit of a poke around, and a scan through the user guide, I occupied myself elsewhere for a while.
I understand your advice xxdita, up until you say "now paste those onto a new reward lot" How do I do this?



Also if I try and drag the model name it comes up with this message, is this normal?

[xxdita]

To copy the properties, just highlight them, and right click, selecting Copy Properties.   

And I don't have any problem creating the building exemplar for the State Fair. Or is that what you were trying?

[thingfishs]

thanks xxdita,
I should have been more specific.
I know how to copy, I'm just not sure how to create the new reward LOT. I found the reward section in the left hand column, do I drag it onto one of these pre-existing ones (you mention the state fair one) I don't get what the next step is after copying the properties, thanks.

[BarbyW]

I'm afraid that thingfishs can't copy properties from one exemplar to the next. It isn't possible in the public release version of SC4PIM, sorry. You can, however, do that in iLive's Reader.
Making a reward lot is quite complex and you should study some of the BSC Rewards to see how they work. Daeley has also posted an introduction to making rewards. You should read this before attempting to make a reward. If you would like help to do this I can make the basic reward lot for you and send it back to you for lotting.

[thingfishs]

Thank You Barby ,
I appreciate your offer. I'll admit I didn't know quite was I was getting into when I started all this, and the project has become larger than anticipated. What I want to do with the winery is reflect it's RL story (the vines were planted 10 years before there was enough money to build the winery). I have made some vineyard LOTs and was hoping there was a way that if you planted enough of those (combined with some other condition/parameter-I'm still learning the terms) that you would get the winery as a reward. Is this possible?
If so I would appreciate any help I can get at this point. (what would I have to send you?-I want to get my head around all of this eventually, but for now my brain hurts and I am keen to tackle other ideas)

[BarbyW]

It is very possible to do what you want as I can add the necessary counter to a reward. This would, however, mean that it would depend on BSC Essentials to work. All I would need is the model and a note of what size lot you want together with the conditions you would want for it to be rewarded. I would also need to give you an OG for your farms and fields so they could be counted. I can do that with instructions on how to add it to your lot.

It does not have to be a State Fair and I could edit your lot to be a reward. In that case I would just need your lot, not the model, together with the conditions you want and also the type of jobs you want adding. It is better to have jobs added as that then makes it a game asset.

[thingfishs]

Thanks again Barby,

I'm slowly learning, but still each response at this point seems to be causing more questions. What is an OG? I'm also a bit confused about the different alternatives you offer. What's the best way to achieve the vineyards/winery reward chain I am proposing?

As far as adding jobs goes I certainly intend to add them to the winery but was also hoping there was a way to add them to the vineyards as well. I'm under the impression job enabled LOTs have to be connected to roads. The vineyard LOTs I have created are 1×1 and 5×1 tiles long, allowing the user to create vineyards of any size, but only those closest to a road will actually be in contact with it. So therefore I am assuming the jobs won't work. (does that make sense?) If I'm understanding that right would a possibility be transit enabliing the vineyards to pedestrians?

As far as numbers of jobs go I have no real idea what to suggest. In real life Shottesbrooke Winery has 5-6 full time staff, but many more in vintage (harvest) and at other key times of year. How is this best translated into SC?

[BarbyW]

I thought that you had made growable farms for your vineyards. The OG is an Occupant Group number given to a base growable lot like a farm or field to count the total growing in a city. Mikebear and I did a similar thing with his Mediterranean style farms. For 4 vineyards growing a special lot was offered - Castello di Chianti.
Your vineyards sound as though are going to be eye-candy park lots which won't work with this system. You would need to make the 1x1 a growing field to be "attached" to - ie to grow with - a farm. The farm "building" could be anything including a row of vines but would need to be made as a farm to grow. The farm could be made as a 5x1 or a 1x1 and the 1x1 fields attached to grow with it.
When it comes to adding jobs to a lot you need to follow the guidelines given in SC4PIM and the thread about making the Filling Degree higher to allow for extra buildings on a lot. It may be RL to have only so few jobs but SC4 isn't RL and we have to work on the guidelines given by Maxis via their PIM. It may seem unreasonable to have 200+ jobs for a winery but it will depend on the size of the building and the lot. Otherwise a lot will be unbalancing the game.
If you have any more questions, please ask.

[thingfishs]

Okay, thanks for the info Barby

Well it sounds like making them growable is the way to go, I'd prefer that they were functional. What I wanted to control with the manual placement idea, was the winery growing in an area with too few vines, but as you say, number of vines can be factored in to the growing approach too. I just want Shottesbrooke to appear only when someone has a lot of vines, so it looks like a real vine growing area. I also don't want them growing in too smaller areas. How much control do you have over the size of the vineyards that will grow?

I'd also like a bottle shop to be involved in this chain as well, either before or after the acquisition of the winery. If it came after, is that something I could worry about further down the track? (after releasing the winery)

As for jobs if it's 200, it's 200, I realise it has to fit in with the game.

Another question I have regards the size of LOTs. At what point do we stop emulating reality? What I mean is it's been suggested the winery LOT is too large already, and yet compared to RL there's much that is missing (a couple of sheds, rainwater tanks etc) This is a rural building and so is a bit more spread out. How much of this is factored in? How big is too big?

[BarbyW]

How much control do you have over the size of the vineyards that will grow?

The control depends on the size zoned. It does, however, then depend on what other farms you have in plugins at the time. A farm has to have road access and a minimum zone size 2 tiles each side of the farm size - ie a 5x1 farm needs to have a 7 x 3 zone size. Unfortunately in SC4 we have no way to stop any other farms growing unless the vineyard is the only custom lot and you block Maxis farms. It can be done for a special city tile but for normal play it would not be possible to replicate what you are seeking.
A lot is as big as it needs to be. I think possibly the criticism given that your lot is too big is because there is so much unused space on it. Fill it with more items like the sheds/rainwater tanks etc and also reduce the gravel area at the front. That doesn't look enough like your real place as the gravel area seems twice the size of the RL one.
I understand what you are trying to do but think you need more knowledge of the workings of SC4. I like what you are doing and do hope we can help you to get it into game.

[thingfishs]

thanks Barby

I hear what you're saying about game mechanics, and so now I intend to have as you suggested, a certain number of vineyards (higher than 4) grow and then you receive Shottesbrooke as a reward. At a later date I intend to add a bottle shop as a further reward (for maintaining enough jobs at the winery, or whatever the parameter has to be.)

I have the winery just about finished now: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=9362.80

I want it to occupy a 5×5 LOT. (it's currently on a 6×5 LOT because, I think, of the placement of the main building in gmax. I centred it on 0,0,0 without change.)
Can this last grass row just be ignored in the transfer to SC4PIM, or do I have to figure out the gmax problem?

I also want to add a few customers and/or winery workers as timed props. Can anyone suggest any appropriate props (animated or not) for such a purpose.

[BarbyW]

If you send the lot and model for the building to me at my email address I will have a look at it and see what I can do. I will also need the farms and fields to add the OGs for you. I won't touch any lotting or anything else, just do what modding is needed. Once I have finished you can add the people or you can do them first. There are a number of people/crowd props in the Maxis props. They do appear and disappear so should do what you want.

[thingfishs]

Okay then, thanks a lot

I just have to get the vineyards finished. What sized LOT etc do arrange them into? I don't know how farms work.

If I can add people afterwards then does that mean I'll still be able to change other things? I would still like to prune off a dependency or two as far as the garden is concerned.

[thingfishs]

Hi,
sorry to dp, but it's been three days, and I haven't been able to find the info elsewhere. I'm sure I'm probably missing something simple somewhere, but I still don't understand how to go about making farms. Can anyone tell me what size I need to make them? Is it just a 1×1 square that fills the space that you zone by replicating itself? I am confused...
thanks

[BarbyW]

A farm itself can be any size you want but it must have at least one growing farm field attached to it. A field is attached to it in the building exemplar of the farm. I suggest you look at some of the farms and fields available to see how they work. The farm grows and the fields then grow around it to fill the area zoned.