choco's attempts at BATing bridges

[smoncrie]

There are many considerations for suitable streetlights.

First, the designer of the bridge is the one who usually decides how it will be lighted.

Second, there are no Maxis networks as wide as RHW-6S (More than one tile wide for each direction.)  Ordinary streetlights might be OK if they are closer together, or are used in pairs, but a custom streetlight that reaches closer to the centre of the 3 lanes might be better.

Third the RHW textures are very dark, so the light cones of some Maxis street lights will be almost invisible.

Forth, it's a RURAL highway, so unpowered bridges are likely.  Streetlights on any kind of bridge will not light up at night if the bridge has no power. I thought that the best way to deal with this is to have streetlights that are invisible unless the bridge has power.  The streetlights on the other RHW bridges should probably be like this as well.

[choco]

@Matt: i have mixed feelings as well....its not all rosy, unfortunately.  i'll explain a bit later.....  

@Pat: ty 

@jayson: its not a huge problem....plopping a 6S puzzle piece will cover it, but its not the best solution.  the pic i showed previously isn't very repeatable, unfortunately.

@smoncrie: a shorter span would work just fine as well.  i admittedly didn't put alot of thought into the bridge parameters.   

now, i never noticed the shadow was off from the center line of the bridge......hmm.  i think i'd like to explore remapping the shadows or even making custom textures for it, cause otherwise it will make the model look odd imo.  the model basically has a y-offset of +4m, so centering the pylon back to y=0 would likely make it hang outside the bridge deck.....it looks like ya added the textures directly to the model, so i would wanna create more work for you. 

for streetlights, i'm struggling between options.  i was considering a couple of Interstate80's excellent streetlights (cogeo's light cones...), but really not sure about adding dependencies(catenaries for the rail bridges??).  but i do tend to agree about the deficiency of the maxis streetlights.  ultimately, i'd rather do what is best for everyone....whether that includes 2 versions (maxis and custom props), so be it. 

interested to hear about hiding the lights with no power.....


-ryan

[Swamper77]

interested to hear about hiding the lights with no power.....

It's really simple to do, but requires modifying all the streetlights, both Maxis and custom ones. The property "Requires Power to Appear" needs to be added to the prop exemplars with its value set to "True". Maxis' parked car cluster props have this property, which is why the parking lots look empty when the Lots have no power and the cars suddenly appear when they do have power. Adding this property would also solve the issue of street lights appearing in rural areas when you plop Lots along the roadways. Most of the eye-candy plops that people make for rural areas don't require power.

-Jan

[smoncrie]

I beg to differ with Swamper77.  It is a little more complicated than he says because "Requires Power to Appear" conflicts with "Nighttime State Change" used in streetlights.  One has to split the streetlight prop into two co-located props.   One prop for the streetlight pole uses "Requires Power to Appear", so it will appear, both day and night, if there is power.  The other prop for the streetlight light cone uses "Nighttime State Change", so it will only appear at night, AND if there is power. (No streetlight lights up without power.)

The requirement for two props means it would be a very big job to do this with all Maxis streetlights, and it would probably break lots that use the streetlight props.  It is better to regard it (or should I say them?) as a custom streetlight.


As for the RHW-6S bridge shadows, I can not create overhanging shadows, but I can centre the shadows on the pylons.  This is what it looks like:



I think the current pylon spacing is fine; there is no real need to change it.

When I said centering the pylon I forgot how the bridge is placed, I should have said centered between 6.7 and -8.   And yes it is true that if you change the model I would need to re-do the deck.

[Fresh Prince of SC4D]

I must ask this : Can we make bridges that change in slope something like these?

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/queensferry/forthroadbridge/images/newbridge-450.jpg

[deathtopumpkins]

That looks possible, though difficult to me. We already have bridges that change slope, just look at the raised road bridge. 

Choco and smoncrie, that RHW-6C bridge is amazing! Oh, you make any more progress on the el-RHW-4 and MIS ones? I'm really interested in those.

[smoncrie]

Fresh Prince of SC4D, that bridge has many different slopes so it would need many different BAT models, but it is possible.

Thanks deathtopumpkins!

It is very simple to make bridges for different elevations: Just change one parameter in the bridge exemplar to change the height of the entire bridge, make new paths and new exemplars, and you are done. All the Maxis ground highway bridges are elevated highway bridges with their height changed like this.

I thought about making a MIS bridge several months ago, but I was not sure how useful it would be.

What I would like to have is a RHW-10 bridge.  It would need a one-way, two tile wide ground highway bridge.  A complete RHW-10 bridge could then be made by building (dragging) two of these bridges; one for each direction. Unfortunately, my BAT skills are not good enough to make such a bridge.

[choco]

thanks jan! 

dtp: thanks!  the bridge controller needed modified beyond the current release for any other RHW (dirt road) bridges to work.  i'll see about  fixing the pillars, otherwise they should be good to go after an update of the essentials.   

smoncrie, i think i understand ya....i have a couple files i can look at that might help.  i think the shadow looks good. 

i haven't made a 2-tile bridge yet, but i could manage a plain RHW-10 bridge....i may have an extra hour or 2 tomorrow.


great job!!

[LE0]

Is a Rhw-10 bridge possible, bridges have to have at least 1-tile gap between them
But it seems like expierenced modders can find a way around everything

[Swamper77]

Leo,

A RHW10 bridge will be drawn with a 2-tile network with similar speed and capacity, most likely such a bridge would be drawn with the Ground Highway network with the RHW10 bridge as an option.

-Swamper

[smoncrie]

LEO, bridges must still have at least one tile between them.  The situation is very similar to the current RHW-4 bridges, except that two tile wide bridges would be used instead of one tile wide bridges. (Both Swamper77 and I suggested a ground highway bridge for this) One difference is that for RHW-10, the space between the bridges would also need to be the space on the ground between the two sides of the RHW-10.  Currently, RHW-10 is less flexible than RHW-4.

Thank you, choco.

There is a trick you can use to save some work when creating a highway bridge (or any bridge).  Since bridges are always flat, you can create larger models that cover several tiles.  For example, you can create one model for the pylons and one model for the ends.  The (0,0) position of these larger models should be over the centre of one tile, and the exemplar for that tile should specify the larger model.  The exemplars for all the other tiles covered by the larger model should specify no model.  I recommend that these models do not extend past the end of the bridge.

I have not studied the bridge tutorials because Jeronij and I worked out how to make bridges before the tutorials were written.  I hope I am not repeating material that is in them.

[EDIT] I notice that I did not say anything about streetlight dependences.  This bridge may need to be released with the RHW mod because it may be awkward to do RHD & LHD in a separate bridge.  In that case it would not be desirable to have dependencies for the RHW mod, so it might be best to make a separate copy of the custom streetlight. The author of the streetlight would have to give permission to do this.

In non-RHW bridges, I do not see any problem with a bridge having dependencies.

[choco]

LEO, even the RHW10 bridges will need a tile between them.   

smoncrie, thanks for the tip.  can't say i fully understand until i try it....

youre not covering previous info from the tuts.  i was going to work with Matt to continue from where jeronij's left off....this thread alone is chalk full of great info, it just needs reorganized condensed.  its my (our) hope that with some additional info available for any and all, that maybe a few others will dive into bridge construction. 

i was going to suggest that the 6S be merged with the RHW mod....so i agree with ya there.  you can make any changes you see fit as well (i kinda agree that it maybe should be shortened a tile or 2)....i appreciate the respect for anothers' work, but im not the end-all of decision-making.....   you've been at this alot longer than i have......

what'd you have in mind for a RHW10 bridge?
meh....
hmmm....


edit for question: the HSRP mod uses .s3d models for the track....how can these be added directly to the bridge models?  i ask because there is only a N-S orientation of the models in the HSR (GHSR) plugins.....these would need rotated, no?

[smoncrie]

smoncrie, thanks for the tip.  can't say i fully understand until i try it....

Take a look at the models in jeronij's Tsing Ma Bridge.


I remember when I posted about my first custom bridge on ST.     It took several posts to convince people that I had created a custom bridge and I was not using puzzle pieces. At that time everyone thought that making custom bridges was almost impossible.

I am not sure if I created the first custom bridge.  I heard that there was a bridge in SimMars, but I never checked.



I have not really thought what a RHW-10 bridge should look like.  It should probably be a fairly simple bridge that can be used anywhere.  I like your first picture better, but the bridge does not have to look like that.



For adding the HSR model to BAT model you locate the S3D, and use "Right-click/Save decoded file" to create an .S3D file. (Not necessary in this case, see Note 1 below.)

I suggest that you first copy the HSR texture (FSH) 0x0bf6e09b from GHSR_Plugin.dat into your BAT model file.  Then close and re-open your BAT model file. This will let you see what you are doing.  DON'T FORGET to remove it when you are finished!!!

For all 20 S3Ds, you use the "Add S3D" button and specify the .S3D file to add the HSR model.

For three of the rotations you will need to rotate the HSR model.   You can do this using a spreadsheet.  First paste the HSR's vertex data into the spread sheet (select the data and use Control-C to copy it to the clip board).  Then add the following formulae to rotate the coordinates:

Xrotated = X cos(angle) – Z sin(angle)
Zrotated = X sin(angle) + Z cos(angle)

Specify the rotation angle and paste the calculated vertex values back into all the copies of the HSR model for the given rotation.

For zooms 1 & 2 in some bridge models you may also need to increase the Y value in the spreadsheet.  For other bridge models, it may be impossible to use the HSR model in zooms 1&2.

Note 1:  The HSR model seems to have inherited a great deal of garbage from the Maxis Monorail models.   I have attached a cleaned-up version of the HSR model in an .s3d file.

Note 2:  HSR uses only one texture for all zoom levels.  Usually it is much better to use a texture for each zoom level, so I tried modding HSR to use different zoom textures. I was surprised to find that the improvement was very small.

[choco]

i was afraid you were gonna say that....   i figured i could do it that way, just didn't sound to appealing.  that was the last item on my to-do for the HSRP bridges....

i began a simple model for the RHW10....didn't get very far.....but i was wondering if its worth it to make an 8 as well.....?.....


thanks for all the help, smoncrie.  you should be charging me by the keystroke.....

[choco]

double posting for some thoughts.....about 15 minutes of RHW10 design.....(kinda short on time this week).

thoughts anyone?

[LE0]

Awesome

[pagenotfound]

awesome i got a somewhat unrelated question tho.

I modified the bridge height mod to increase the count of cables and make them thinner. It works for the most part. But the far end ( ie farthest point from where i started dragging) does not show any difference from the normal Maxis look.
I set the cable count to 25 and the thickness to .75? Did i do something wrong?

thats for the cable stayed bridge btw

[choco]

pnf: i think i have a pic of that same problem on another PC.....never figured out why it happens, and  i abandoned a couple models because of it.     on the other hand, i learned how to make props as a result.  it may be something on a higher level, cause i was editing those same values from the bridge exemplars.  it doesn't happen on the Maxis bridges though; not sure why. 

threw on some quick textures.....still needs details.  have a good weekend everyone! 

[deathtopumpkins]

Whoa, choco! That is crazy good! Can't wait to see it with RHW textures and details.

[art128]

this bridge looks very promising my friend.  can't wait to see the texture.