off-set lots under elevated rail

[snorrelli]

I'll throw my request in the hat... It's a simple one:

- A series of off-set lots that can be placed next to elevated rail and extend underneath to cover the bare ground. I imagine it working similar to the S-bahn under rail shops, but no need for any BAT-ed buildings. Instead, I'd like to see some props appropriate for different wealth levels, such as parks for high-wealth, hot-dog stands, kiosks, lamp posts and people milling around for the medium-wealth and then scattered crates, graffiti, trash and chalk outlines for the low-wealth/industrial. The base texture could vary from the white tile high-wealth sidewalk texture to bare gray concrete for the low-wealth.

Thanks for considering this...

[metasmurf]

I second this request

[Travis]

I'll third it. 

[thundercrack83]

I concur. I'll fourth it! Very good idea, snorrelli!

[mightygoose]

much needed....

[MIncroabl]

Now here's a tip for you that requires no skills in BAT and very little knowledge of lot editor:

1.
Create a lot in LE with the following properties:
- Size: 1x2 (1 wide and 2 deep), where the bottom tile (the one facing the road) has the texture (base/overlays) you want to have under the el rail, but can have no props except ones that overhang to it. The upper tile can have whatever props and textures you wish to have appear next to the network.
- You might want to set the 'Max slope' and 'Max slope before lot foundation' properties to something like 99.00 or higher so that the lot conforms to the terrain.
2.
Save this lot with whatever name you wish.
3.
Copy the lot out of your plugins folder and rename it so that you can distinguish it from the original. This renamed lot is the same lot for the game than the original, but has a different file name.
4.
Leave the new file out of your plugins folder and open the original in LE. Change the size to 1x1 and delete the textures from the bottom tile. Save the file (Choose Save, not Save as).
5.
Now you have two lots, a 1x2 and a 1x1. Whenever you build a new stretch of el rail that you want to have the bottom texture, open the game with the 1x1 lot in your plugins and place the lots next to the network the arrow facing the rail. Save & quit your game and switch the file with the 1x2 one and voila, the el rail has the texture under it. When you need to build more, replace the 1x2 lots with the 1x1 ones and you're ready to go.


This technique has been demonstrated a couple of times here in the forums by its inventor, badsim and by metasmurf. However, if you follow this tutorial closely, you'll have a pair of lots that are fairly easy to use and do not require you to change the 1x1 lots in LE after you've placed them.

And here's a few extra tips:
- You can use these for any other elevated network. With the 2-tile wide elevated highway you can either use one of these on both sides or build 1x1(1x3) lots for it.
- For variety, you might want to build several different pairs of lots.
- If you rename the bigger lot with a prefix (like ZZZ_) that allows it to load after the 1x1 one, you don't need to switch the lots, simply add the 1x2 lot to your plugins when you don't need to build.

[snorrelli]

Interesting idea... Will give it a try.

[thundercrack83]

That doesn't sound too hard, MIncroabl. I'll have to try it out! Thanks a lot, my friend!

[snorrelli]

Well, I'll have to fool around with the props to get the look I want but the concept works exactly as advertised...



The switching lots in and out is less than ideal but it will certainly work for now. Thanks MIncroabl!

[MIncroabl]

Glad I could help, though this hardly is nothing I can take credit for... All thanks should go to badsim who, at least to my knowledge, is the one who discovered the process. I merely refined his technique to using overriding lots. The switching really hasn't been a problem at least for me, as I don't usually build elevated networks that often.

..And, if you are using the DatPacker, I suggest that you leave these lots out of the packing process. Unless of course you use the 'load last' method, then you can pack the original lots. Just make sure that the overriding lots do load after the 1x1 ones.

[Badsim]

In that case , I rather see TE Lots for monorail (with SC4Tool) like this one ... but there is several serious inconveniences to edit a set .
I'll be back at the end of the day for more explanations ,if you're interested .

[MIncroabl]

The problem I see with TE lots is that they are always flat. I personally prefer terrain conforming development. Another simpler, though rather limited, solution would be the use of el-rail over pedestrian mall puzzle pieces in the NAM. As one can expect, they are only a feasible solution if the elevated network is el-rail and runs straight.

[jeronij]

It would be posible to add the lots as T21 exemplars as well. We would need many different lots for all the different wealth/density/zonetype combinations, but it would work...and automatically. If someone of you uses the street side mod, will understand what I mean 

I dont have the time to make such a mod at the moment, but I can share the needed information to do it if someone is really interested, and has one free month for that project 

[MIncroabl]

That method would really be the best solution as far as I can see. I've done some modding on T21 exemplars myself (following your excellent tutorial, by the way  ). However, I just did a quick search through Simcity_1.dat and couldn't find any real exemplars to modify for the el-rail, or monorail for that matter.. Though this is a field of modding I personally haven't touched deeper than the surface.

If it turns out to be possible do what you are suugesting, I could have a go at it.

[snorrelli]

Nice pic, Badsim! That's a lot closer to the way I'd like it to look.

I'm not sure what a T21 exemplar is but I was thinking of the streetside mods as a sort of model for the randomly appearing props to accompany the under-rail textures. In fact, I was going to post a question asking what prop family to use to get a mix of CP's deciduous trees like in the streetside mods.

Isn't the problem with TE-ed lots that the trains treat them like stations and stop over them? Deadwoods' under-rail shops are an example...

[jeronij]

The exemplar for the straight e-rail should be 0x08031500 . I found this ID after a really quick search so I can be wrong. Maybe there are not T21 lots for this piece. I should check that with more time, but you can take any existing T21, and change it to fit this network, and try 

snorrelli, T21 lots are placed automatically when you lay the network. Is the same as when you place lights. It should not affect in any way the transport running across a tile. (Oh, and you could use badsim's lots or any other 1x1 available lot for them)

btw, T21 exemplars do not allow textures, as far as I know, but you can use flat props to simulate them 

[MIncroabl]

Upon closer inspection I managed to find three T21 lots for straight el-rail. With 10+ minutes of fiddling around with them and the BAT I patched together this very crude setup:



Obviously, this really is just to prove it can be done... Forget the crappy props I threw together, I'll have to extract the correct textures from the game and mess a bit around with the LODs and such.

Couple of problems that I ran to:
- I'm afraid there are no T21 exemplar for any diagonal pieces or intersections. I can be wrong about this though.
- I could use help figuring out the kPropertyID_NetworkPlacementPattern property. How should these values be set? For the above, I just set them all to 0x0F, but it was just one of those "Let's try and see if this'll work.." -moments..

[jeronij]

Great progress 

You got the idea quickly 

I think modding the straight section would be more than enough for a first phase. In fact is used 90% of the times  . Other tiles can be added in the future.

The placement pattern... I dont thik there is clear information about this, but you are right, 0x0F places the lot in all the tiles, and if there is more than a lot for the same wealth/density/type tile, then they are placed randomly. You can test with the different existing patterns, but I think they only indicate how many tiles should go between the same type of T21 exemplar. If 0x0F is the less spaced combination, maybe 0x00 is the more spaced. Who knows ?¿. I did not really care about this property when making the Street side mod 

[snorrelli]

Whoa! And all of a sudden this idea takes off! Great start, MIncroabl! Does the same potential exist for monorail?

[MIncroabl]

@ jeronij:

Thanks! About the placement values.. yeah that's what I figured they'd be for. In my earlier adventures with T21s I found out that some of the values also affect the way these lots appear when several networks of the same are adjancent. I didn't, however, figure out which ones or how.

I think modding the straight section would be more than enough for a first phase. In fact is used 90% of the times  . Other tiles can be added in the future.

So.. is it possible to add completely new lots for intersections and such if there isn't one already?

@ snorrelli:

Thank you too. To answer your question, I don't really know. If it is possible add new T21 configurations, then yes. There doesn't seem to be any T21 exemplars for monorail.