off-set lots under elevated rail

[jeronij]

For my rail catenary mod, I used "2", and now the catenary props are placed every two tiles. When I set it to "3", only every third tile had a prop.

I saw that all the T21 with this property set to 3 were for diagonal tiles, so I made a quick ( too quick perhaps) association. However it has sense, every 3 tiles for diagonals and every 4 tiles for orthogonal would keep a uniform pattern in the network.

So the values in both properties are closely related. Some experimenting will be needded about the misterious NetworkPlacementPattern... 

[mightygoose]

basically what im trying to acheive is in essence mod for HSRL with catenary...

[memo]

I'm sorry, if I caused confusion. Andreas seems to be right indeed. I can't believe that I've never thought of that. At least I was able to achieve something similar using NetworkPlacementPattern by examining the default Maxis T21-Exemplar files. Though I would be grateful if someone could find out the real intention and functionality of that property.

@mightygoose: That should be viable, though Andreas is probably more experienced with this than I am.

[Swamper77]

Except for that the base prop doesn't appear on mirrored tiles... I suspect this has something to do with the kPropertyID_FlipsAllowed and/or kPropertyID_RotationsAllowed parameters, but couldn't figure them out.

For flipped tiles, you also need to have a flipped model of the prop. Since your tile props appear to be symmetrical, add the property "Resource Type Key 1xm" with the model reference TGI of the existing prop model to the exemplar of your prop.

-Jan

[Andreas]

@mightygoose: That should be viable, though Andreas is probably more experienced with this than I am.

Uh, not really. I know some basics, but most of my knowledge is either drawn from "I read that somewhere" or "let's try what happens when I change that". Most of the properties are still a mystery to me, too...

[MIncroabl]

For flipped tiles, you also need to have a flipped model of the prop. Since your tile props appear to be symmetrical, add the property "Resource Type Key 1xm" with the model reference TGI of the existing prop model to the exemplar of your prop.

-Jan

Yess!! We're in business! That worked perfectly! Than you very much! ...I'll stop shouting now...

Other related news: The slope conforming props seem to be equally as effective as textures, but I did find one situation where they don't work. When the rail is running diagonally on a slope, corners of the prop stick either in or out of the ground. A solution that i deviced was using 4 smaller props on the diagonal lots. It did lessen the eyesore, but is hardly perfect, as the props don't still follow the slope like a texture would. Obviously, I could just cut the props smaller and smaller to get better results, but this leads to unnecessary increase in prop amount. So the results are questionable.

[mightygoose]

yeah but im sure 64 2mx2m props is not worth the game lagging effects of the props...
avioding diagonals on slope is not too difficult anyway... i mean normally diagonal on slope i reserve for mountain roads and i doubt there are many elevated rail networks in the mountains.... (someone is so going to find a picture now arent they..)

so if i edit NetworkPlacementPattern to say 6 that means in theory every sixth tile will have the alternative model...

[jeronij]

I made some testing yesterday with the network patterns properties. I have clarified almost nothing... ... but I can tell you that the "PatternSize" property will work as you expect, if there is only one T21 exemplar for that tile. When there are more exemplars for the same tile (standard roads for instance) it will not work like that.
I guess that is why Maxis added the NetworkPlacementPattern, but anyway, I think these values are used to calculate a random T21, because I could not find any pattern. Also, when there is more than one T21 for the network, and you click on it, the T21 distribution changes reandomly. It does not follow a pattern. Weird  . I will make some more testing when I have the time.

[mightygoose]

well then one must surely assume that that exemplar is for the highway signs that apparently randomly dot highays and elevated highways.

so if i am allowed only one T21 exemplar to use pattern size. how does that limit me?

[jeronij]

If I recall correctly, the highways do use several T12 exemplar wich are empty, or use invisible models. For every T21 containing a highway signal, there are at least three invisible T21 placed as well.

For your case, that means that you can only have one T21 lot for the single straight piece, only one for the curve, and so on.

If you are planning to add catenaries to the railroads, and you find that there must be more that one T21 exemplar for a determinate tile, you can also place the catenary props in all the exemplars. But you will have to play witht the NetworkPlacementPattern values to make it work the way you want.

Also, MIncroabl, you could try to add a texture to one of the T21 props, just to see what happens  . i tried with the normal rail, and it does not crash the game, but the textures can also not be seem. Maybe with an elevated network will work better 

[MIncroabl]

Progress shot:



I've finished making all the mirrored exemplars and added a bunch of exemplars for the straight and diagonal pieces. More lots need to be added though, the look is still quite repetive (and I just realized that there's not a single diagonal lot visible in this picture...). Once the industrial version is done, the rest should be just a simple copy & paste job and changing the IDs.

@ Jeronij:
I could try adding a texture to the lot, though I doubt it will work.

@ mightygoose:
That's what I meant with those questionable results. If I used, say, 1m x 1m props, the result would be great... but there would be 256 props on each section of the diagonal rail! That is obviously unacceptable, so I'll stick with the 4 8m x 8m ones. It's not perfect, but I think it's the best trade-off.

[Andreas]

Looking great so far! Just don't over do it with the number of props; as you can see, it might conflict with the el-rail supports (visible in the lower middle part of the pic, where the support goes right through that shed).

[MIncroabl]

Yeah, I did notice that too during my tests. But I kinda liked it, it's not totally impossible that someone would build a shed around a pillar.. is it? 

[snorrelli]

Looking good, MIncroabl! Great progress you're making...

[mightygoose]

so basically all the straight tiles would be duplicates if i used a single T21.... ie same props on every base tile..... but that would allow me to use patternsize to alter the main model every X tiles.... if i have more than one T21 i would have to play with network pattern placement... and see if i can get the required results.. in this case what does patternsize affect?

[MIncroabl]

Progress shot, just to show I'm still working on this:



I decided to go for the traditional Maxis recreational style for the I-ht areas. I quite like it, but the contrast between I-ht and the dirtier industries is a bit disturbing. Then again, I don't think that many people have I-ht mixed with I-d or I-m.

From now on, my progress will slow down a bit. It's summer here in Finland, and I won't be spending as much of my time on the computer. I will, however, continue to work on this mod. That'll keep me busy on rainy days..

[jeronij]

Great to see the project alive 

However, I have to say that I dont exactly like the flowers in the middle of industrial areas... ... just my personal taste of course 

[Andreas]

Nice progress! Personally, I don't mind the flowers on I-HT lots, but I must admit that they look a bit odd below the el-rail tracks. Usually, such areas are more or less "wasteland", where nobody would think of planting flowers. However, it's very common to park cars below the tracks, or use it as storage area.

[snorrelli]

Looks great! Actually, one of the things that originally got me thinking about this was looking at pictures of the Kuala Lumpur monorail, which has a lot of greenery and landscaping underneath the tracks. I'm not sure it's right for any kind of industrial areas but certainly for higher-wealth residential and commercial...

[MIncroabl]

Managed to sneak in some hours on the old 'puter today:





The I-d/I-m lots are pretty much done, and the I-ht ones nearing completion. I decreased the amount of flora on the I-ht el-rail, but kept some to maintain that high wealth look. I also started the §§/§§§ commercial lots, but I have to make some custom prop families before they can be completed.

The weather forecast seems bad for the next couple of days, so hopefully I'll get more done during the week.