NEW - Turning Lanes Plugin - POLL Closed

[dragonshardz]

  so that's why the SAM and RHW/MIS threads have been so empty!!

Great job! 

[Ryan B.]

You'll have textures coming from me as well, Jason.  Just let me know what you need, and I got your back on this.   

[TheTeaCat]

Thats a work of beauty  . Many thanks for all the effort and hard work you've put into this.
I think you've earned this



TTC

[Starmanw402007]

Those Right Turning Lanes are a nice addition to SC4! Keep Up The Great Work .

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)

[j-dub]

Merry Christmas!
Can't wait for this stand alone turning lanes to come out. I finally got rid of the traffic lights on mine, and gives me more options. Thats all though. Only did it once. Stop signs may be a good idea, but I don't like the hand on the default ones, and it might be better if they said stop. However, I don't think it can because of the limited pixel range. It also seems, every intersection works like it was being controled by a signal even though its not. I noticed some cars just go straight through without stopping even though there is a stopsign at some crossings already. Pathing can always get changed, but it seems like controlling the vehicles waiting time is a different story.
 

[Flo8472]

Hi, so a similar traffic light free crossing has I at the end of September times tinkered. But the version with bending trace pleases me already better.

klick here to the thread



sry for my bad english.


Happy New Year!

[jplumbley]

Hi, so a similar traffic light free crossing has I at the end of September times tinkered. But the version with bending trace pleases me already better.


sry for my bad english.


Happy New Year!

Im sorry, but I have to say that this is an example of what not to do.  Transit-Enabled Lots are VERY harmful to the Transit Simulator when used as a network tile.  They confuse the Simulator and make the Sims make bad decisions when looking for a job.  Please do not show TE'd Lots used as intersections or road pieces in my threads.
___________________________________________________

Back on topic.

I have compiled a little test for a couple people to play with this morning for this project.  There is alot that still needs to be done but, with the successful tests of the new ALPHA Plugin I have created.  I feel it is already better than the original and it paves the way for more work into the TLA-3 and TLA-5 plugins.

There is no "new pictures" currently because there is nothing "new" to show, its just working properly.  Ive just added the path files, now I need to start talking textures with some of my buddies here on the team.

[j-dub]

@jplumbley Just out of curiosity do you use the path creator for what stuff like this? If yes, is there other things you have to do for this tool to work? And as for the the te road stop alt intersection, we have been down this road before, but that concept is already in the NAM now with the new rhw 2 lane, I can intersect roads with the rhw to avoid turning lanes and stoplight in mid residential areas for busier traffic, so long it doesn't exceed past the intersection, so far no nocar zot baloney over the houses, and it seems to be normal. However was there a decision to wether or not do stopsigns with this plugin?

[jplumbley]

@jplumbley Just out of curiosity do you use the path creator for what stuff like this? If yes, is there other things you have to do for this tool to work? And as for the the te road stop alt intersection, we have been down this road before, but that concept is already in the NAM now with the new rhw 2 lane, I can intersect roads with the rhw to avoid turning lanes and stoplight in mid residential areas for busier traffic, so long it doesn't exceed past the intersection, so far no nocar zot baloney over the houses, and it seems to be normal. However was there a decision to wether or not do stopsigns with this plugin?

The goal is functionality first.... Someone else can do T21s later, and I think they would probably end up using stoplights rather than stop signs.  Once, a BETA gets released, then someone can worry about stop signs and stop lights... I really only care that it draws properly and functions properly.

As for the paths, I have taken the paths from the existing Textures from the original RTL Plugin.  So, its a copy/paste/re-ID the paths.  I understand how to write an SC4Path file, I know how to do them and I know what needs to be done, without using the Path Creator, but the limit is it really isnt good for me to write them in this fashion because I will end up making ugly paths that dont have "curves" to them.  I do not use the Path Creator, because I really havent had much need to do paths recently.  If need be I might try it one day.

The biggest problem that the original RTL Plugin served was that the new TLA-3 and TLA-5 projects will be hindered by them.  The problem would be that we would have to decifer the RTL Plugin and find out what they did writing the RULs which will take weeks just to decifer.  The reason it will be an issue is because we will have to override the intersections with the new TLA intersections, which we dont want to do.  On top of that, the original RTL Plugin was designed very inefficiently, there were many duplicate textures and RULs that were unused.  The reason for this was because they did not know how to implement everything they wanted, because it simply wasnt possible to do all they wanted and they tried different methods and left half of it in the mod.  These other methods and simply the entire plugin itself was just too hard to decifer.  Hence, a new and improved version.  This will make everything for us modders to implement other things in the future and not take anything away from the functionality of the game.

That is why it is necessary for a re-write of this plugin.

[memo]

Jplumbley, I have just read parts of this thread and have to say that I have much respect for your modding. But.. I want to add some remarks. I have to confess that I did not read the whole thread, but in your first post you were talking about textures with different ID's which are basically the same.

Here is a list of the duplicate textures:
(There are about 55 or so original RTL textures and about 27 of them are duplicates... you do the math)

0x5f005700 - MAXIS Road T-Intersection
0x5f015400 - MAXIS Road T-Intersection
0x5f015600 - Same as texture 0x5f015100
0x5f015700 - Same as texture 0x5f015200
0x5f01bb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01bc00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01da00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01db00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01dc00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01df00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00 (rotated 180 degrees)
0x5f01ea00 - Same as texture 0x5f01be00
0x5f01eb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01ec00 - Same as texture 0x5f01bd00
0x5f01fa00 - Same as texture 0x5f01be00
0x5f01fb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01fc00 - Same as texture 0x5f01bd00
0x5f01fd00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ed00
0x5f01fe00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ee00
0x5f01ff00 - Same as texture 0x5f01b800
0x5f020100 - Same as texture 0x5f01ef00
0x5f020700 - MAXIS 4way Road Texture
0x5f022000 - Same as texture 0x5f020000
0x5f022100 - Same as texture 0x5f01ef00
0x5f022200 - Same as texture 0x5f020200
0x5f022300 - MAXIS Road Straight

Now, as far as I can tell all of these have been referenced to some extent in the RULs... Some, get overriden by other overrides and there are about 3x the RULs required as there are variations for all of these textures.

I'm afraid, I have to say that it is not true, actually, that these are simply duplicate textures. If you take a look at the left_hand_plugin of the NAM, you will see that most (if not all) of the mentioned textures are different and only appear to be the same for the right hand version.
For example, the textures that are the same as "MAXIS Road Straight" are necessary for T-intersections as they will be replaced with Right-Turn-Lanes in the LHD-version. And from my point of view, it makes more sense to have these "apparently" duplicate textures than e.g. writing two sets of RULs, one for RHD and one for LHD, since you would have to add a Rul-file to the LHD-plugin then.
I'm sorry I had to criticize you. Probably you're doing very a very good job and maybe you even knew this already. Or perhaps, I misunderstood something. Anyway, I don't know, it may be wise to rewrite the plugin nonetheless for compatibility with TLR probably...

[jplumbley]

Jplumbley, I have just read parts of this thread and have to say that I have much respect for your modding. But.. I want to add some remarks. I have to confess that I did not read the whole thread, but in your first post you were talking about textures with different ID's which are basically the same.

I'm afraid, I have to say that it is not true, actually, that these are simply duplicate textures. If you take a look at the left_hand_plugin of the NAM, you will see that most (if not all) of the mentioned textures are different and only appear to be the same for the right hand version.
For example, the textures that are the same as "MAXIS Road Straight" are necessary for T-intersections as they will be replaced with Right-Turn-Lanes in the LHD-version. And from my point of view, it makes more sense to have these "apparently" duplicate textures than e.g. writing two sets of RULs, one for RHD and one for LHD, since you would have to add a Rul-file to the LHD-plugin then.
I'm sorry I had to criticize you. Probably you're doing very a very good job and maybe you even knew this already. Or perhaps, I misunderstood something. Anyway, I don't know, it may be wise to rewrite the plugin nonetheless for compatibility with TLR probably...

Memo, if this is the case, then the textures are not proper, atleast in the RTL Plugin I have.  The textures should be mirrored, but they arent.  Here is an example from the very first one in my original post:

0x5f015100

SC4PATHS
1.1
12
10
0
-- Car_3_1
1
0
3
1
2
2.5,-8.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_2_1
1
0
2
1
6
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.3,2.5,0.0
5.0,3.0,0.0
4.1,4.0,0.0
3.6,5.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_1_2
1
0
1
2
8
-0.3,8.0,0.0
-0.3,5.0,0.0
0.5,2.0,0.0
1.5,0.0,0.0
2.8,-1.3,0.0
4.0,-2.1,0.0
5.0,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_1_3
1
0
1
3
2
-3.6,8.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Car_3_2
1
0
3
2
21
2.5,-8.0,0.0
2.5,-5.0,0.0
2.50032,-4.9459,0.0
2.50512,-4.79802,0.0
2.52017,-4.57797,0.0
2.55125,-4.30737,0.0
2.60414,-4.00783,0.0
2.68459,-3.70099,0.0
2.79839,-3.40845,0.0
2.95131,-3.15184,0.0
3.14913,-2.95276,0.0
3.38884,-2.80837,0.0
3.65701,-2.6983,0.0
3.94375,-2.61792,0.0
4.23915,-2.5626,0.0
4.53334,-2.52772,0.0
4.81641,-2.50865,0.0
5.07848,-2.50076,0.0
5.30964,-2.49942,0.0
5.5,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_2_3
1
0
2
3
8
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.0,2.5,0.0
2.0,0.1,0.0
0.0,-1.6,0.0
-1.3,-2.8,0.0
-2.1,-4.0,0.0
-2.5,-5.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_1
2
0
3
1
4
6.41958,-8.0,0.0
6.39142,-5.1,0.0
6.39142,5.1,0.0
6.41958,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_2
2
0
3
2
5
6.3947,-8.0,0.0
6.3947,-7.71721,0.0
6.4961,-7.08183,0.0
7.13255,-6.40045,0.0
8.0,-6.31721,0.0
-- Sim_2_3
2
0
2
3
3
8.0,6.4335,0.0
-6.42677,6.4335,0.0
-6.43182,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_2_1
2
0
2
1
13
8.0,6.48099,0.0
7.46369,6.48099,0.0
7.3927,6.48117,0.0
7.21807,6.49109,0.0
6.99734,6.52483,0.0
6.78805,6.59647,0.0
6.64772,6.72009,0.0
6.57287,6.87319,0.0
6.51827,7.02426,0.0
6.47888,7.17381,0.0
6.44961,7.32233,0.0
6.4254,7.47035,0.0
6.4254,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_3
2
0
1
3
2
-6.3425,8.0,0.0
-6.3425,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_2
2
0
1
2
10
-6.39708,8.0,0.0
-6.49709,-6.11075,0.0
-6.11844,-6.28348,0.0
-5.14331,-6.38967,0.0
-3.67112,-6.44042,0.0
-1.80129,-6.44681,0.0
0.366788,-6.41994,0.0
2.73369,-6.37089,0.0
5.2,-6.31075,0.0
8.0,-6.31075,0.0
-- stop_car_a_1_255
1
1
1
1
255
-3.6,7.24569,0.0
-- stop_car_b_1_255
1
1
2
1
255
-0.3,7.402,0.0
-- stop_car_a_2_255
1
1
0
2
255
7.23966,2.3,0.0
-- stop_car_a_3_255
1
1
0
3
255
2.5,-7.36517,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_3
1
2
0
2
3
6.30438,5.12246,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_0
1
2
0
2
0
5.01762,6.30293,0.0
-- stop_sim_1_2
1
2
0
1
2
-5.16991,6.34055,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_2
1
2
0
3
2
-5.03099,-6.4498,0.0
-- stop_sim_a_2_03
1
2
1
2
3
4.96841,-6.53218,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_1
1
2
0
3
1
6.33063,-5.01665,0.0

0x5f015600

SC4PATHS
1.1
12
10
0
-- Car_3_1
1
0
3
1
2
2.5,-8.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_2_1
1
0
2
1
6
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.3,2.5,0.0
5.0,3.0,0.0
4.1,4.0,0.0
3.6,5.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_1_2
1
0
1
2
8
-0.3,8.0,0.0
-0.3,5.0,0.0
0.5,2.0,0.0
1.5,0.0,0.0
2.8,-1.3,0.0
4.0,-2.1,0.0
5.0,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_1_3
1
0
1
3
2
-3.6,8.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Car_3_2
1
0
3
2
21
2.5,-8.0,0.0
2.5,-5.0,0.0
2.50032,-4.9459,0.0
2.50512,-4.79802,0.0
2.52017,-4.57797,0.0
2.55125,-4.30737,0.0
2.60414,-4.00783,0.0
2.68459,-3.70099,0.0
2.79839,-3.40845,0.0
2.95131,-3.15184,0.0
3.14913,-2.95276,0.0
3.38884,-2.80837,0.0
3.65701,-2.6983,0.0
3.94375,-2.61792,0.0
4.23915,-2.5626,0.0
4.53334,-2.52772,0.0
4.81641,-2.50865,0.0
5.07848,-2.50076,0.0
5.30964,-2.49942,0.0
5.5,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_2_3
1
0
2
3
8
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.0,2.5,0.0
2.0,0.1,0.0
0.0,-1.6,0.0
-1.3,-2.8,0.0
-2.1,-4.0,0.0
-2.5,-5.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_1
2
0
3
1
4
6.41958,-8.0,0.0
6.39142,-5.1,0.0
6.39142,5.1,0.0
6.41958,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_2
2
0
3
2
5
6.3947,-8.0,0.0
6.3947,-7.71721,0.0
6.4961,-7.08183,0.0
7.13255,-6.40045,0.0
8.0,-6.31721,0.0
-- Sim_2_3
2
0
2
3
3
8.0,6.4335,0.0
-6.42677,6.4335,0.0
-6.43182,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_2_1
2
0
2
1
13
8.0,6.48099,0.0
7.46369,6.48099,0.0
7.3927,6.48117,0.0
7.21807,6.49109,0.0
6.99734,6.52483,0.0
6.78805,6.59647,0.0
6.64772,6.72009,0.0
6.57287,6.87319,0.0
6.51827,7.02426,0.0
6.47888,7.17381,0.0
6.44961,7.32233,0.0
6.4254,7.47035,0.0
6.4254,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_3
2
0
1
3
2
-6.3425,8.0,0.0
-6.3425,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_2
2
0
1
2
10
-6.39708,8.0,0.0
-6.49709,-6.11075,0.0
-6.11844,-6.28348,0.0
-5.14331,-6.38967,0.0
-3.67112,-6.44042,0.0
-1.80129,-6.44681,0.0
0.366788,-6.41994,0.0
2.73369,-6.37089,0.0
5.2,-6.31075,0.0
8.0,-6.31075,0.0
-- stop_car_a_1_255
1
1
1
1
255
-3.6,7.24569,0.0
-- stop_car_b_1_255
1
1
2
1
255
-0.3,7.402,0.0
-- stop_car_a_2_255
1
1
0
2
255
7.23966,2.3,0.0
-- stop_car_a_3_255
1
1
0
3
255
2.5,-7.36517,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_3
1
2
0
2
3
6.30438,5.12246,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_0
1
2
0
2
0
5.01762,6.30293,0.0
-- stop_sim_1_2
1
2
0
1
2
-5.16991,6.34055,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_2
1
2
0
3
2
-5.03099,-6.4498,0.0
-- stop_sim_a_2_03
1
2
1
2
3
4.96841,-6.53218,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_1
1
2
0
3
1
6.33063,-5.01665,0.0

As you can see from both the SC4Path Files and the Textures they are identical.  I have not looked into where they are in the RULs, simply becaue I dont want to find them, but if they are used in differing circumstances, why?  If they are oriented the same and pathed the same, then the only difference in the RUL line would be the IID.

I undertand there may be something needed with the LHD versions.  Unfortunately, I have never worked with LHD so I dont know what to do to make it work.  But, if I have to make duplicate textures and paths that are mirrored for the LHD then, that is quite alright.  But, I will put them into a separate RTL Plugin file for LHD with the Mirrored textures because it will still work.

In either case you may need new RULs for the RTL-LHD anyways, because instead of them being left hand turns they are right hand turns.  In essence, the approach to the intersection is different meaning a new set of RULs.  This new set of RULs would be for the T-Intersections mainly because the turn lane would be moved to the oppostie side of the intersection.

For example a T-Intersection with 2 turn lanes:

|__
|

In RHD the Left Turn lane on the through road would be from the north side of the intersection.  But, in LHD the Right turn lane would be coming from the south side of the intersection.  Completely different layout, hence completely different set of RULs.  This is just my thoughts on this, and have never played with LHD, nor have I attempted to mod and LHD compatable mod, so I dont know what is required.

If I am wrong with this, please tell me because when it comes to LHD Im in the dark.

[memo]

The Road-Turning-Lanes Plugin of the NAM is set up in a way, which allows RHD and LHD to work with the same RULs. This can be achieved like this:



The textures of the outlined tiles are replaced by the textures you can see in the picture. At first, it may seem gratuitous that straight road textures from the T-Intersection are replaced by other straight road textures. But it is needed for the LHD version, as those straight textures are replaced by Right-Turning-Lanes, if the left hand plugin is installed. IMO, this method is quite clever, actually.





Now I'll try to explain the situation for the "duplicate" texture that you suggested in your post already. In the first case of the picture below, one left-turning-lane is prevented by the rail intersection. However, the two straight road tiles still get the custom textures. But in the second case, they don't because there is another intersection next to the T-intersection, the street intersection.



Now let's investigate the same situations with the left hand plugin installed. It will look like this:



It becomes clear that two different textures are needed for these two intersections in LHD. In the first case, the texture 0x5f015100 will appear, in the second one, it's texture 0x5f015600. Both texture files can be found in the plugin "NetworkAddonMod_LEFT_HAND_VERSIONS_ONLY_Required_Additional_Plugin.dat". In RHD, they are the same though.

Now some notes on LHD:
Usually, it is only needed to reverse the paths of rail-based networks, since the game flips the paths of cars automatically. Those reversed paths of rail path files need to have another IID. If you want, I'll explain the scheme which helps you to find the right ID for them.
However, in this case, the road-turning-lanes need special treatment, since it doesn't work to just reverse the paths. The turning lanes wouldn't make sense. So you need completely different textures and paths for the intersections which differ between RHD and LHD, so the LHD textures and paths will replace the RHD ones, if the correct plugin is installed.

[jplumbley]

That is much more clear now Memo, thanks.  I will need to read this again when I am more "awake", getting ready for bed and my brain is most of the way there.

Since, RHD and LHD versions cannot co-exist anyways, would it not be prudent to build into the NAM Essentials installer a RHD and LHD version of the Controller?  This way it avoids duplicate paths and textures being installed in the Turning Lanes Plugin.  I can also, write my version with mirrored textures and paths to allow for a LHD selection.  Yes, this would mean a bit more work for me, but it is easier to modify in the future and better for the end user.

In either case, I still must re-write this due to the way Alex and I are writing the Turning Lane Avenue Project.  Due to the RTL Plugin be automatic at every intersection it is more work to decifer how they did it and then write the new RULs.  And this is a good excuse to add more flexibilty to this plugin and expand it.  I think this will now become more useful for all users rather than just those who want left turn lanes at every intersection.

[jplumbley]

Well, for those of you who thought I have forgotten about this project... I havent.  Been working on it some tonight and made a couple prototype textures with my rather limited skills with photoshop.

This is a Right Turn Slip Lane from an Avenue to a Perpendicular One Way Road.

[Meastro444]

cant see the picture JP. the feared red X for me.

[figui]

cant see the picture

neither do i

mauricio.

[JoeST]

I saw it and it was GOOOOD

but here it is again...

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4549/perpowrcopyfq3.jpg

I think it isn't there any more

Joe

[rickmastfan67]

I saw it and it was GOOOOD

but here it is again...

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4549/perpowrcopyfq3.jpg

I think it isn't there any more

Joe

It's loading here on my end.

[Jonathan]

It is fixed again, probably Server problems.

[Pat]

It looks sweet to me  !!!! I don't see