How to control buildings to grow?

[BigSlark]

I've been following this thread for ages and playing with getting different structures to grow myself.

With CAM, and therefore properly modded lots using the X-Tool, everything really does have the same chance to grow. If you want to limit what grows, that's where the fun part comes in.

I must preface this by saying that I ONLY use custom lots and BATs for my commerical and residential growables, for industry I only use Maxis I-HT as there simply aren't enough I-HT BATs available (hint hint at any Industrial BATer reading this  ). In order to accomplish this I have the very flexible BSC No Maxis Mod installed.

What I do (sometimes) is only have the buildings I really want to grow in my plugins while I'm playing. That way, they're guaranteed to show up.

For example, if you want to be a residential area with only Prepo's W2W buildings, simply leave them as the only R$$ in your plugins and play away. Once they've grown, make them historic and add the rest of the custom residentals back into the game.

I haven't had any problems with this yet. I will experiment and let you know if any bad things happen.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Badsim]

Hello SAC ,

Indeed , as you're discovering the amount of new stuff came out since you left , you'll need a method to see grow what you want without bulldoze and wait and so on indefinately ... BigSlark has given you a good one ; the "No Maxis Building " Mod which can be very selective + the move in/out of your custom content from your plugin folder depending what you want to see grow . As you told to sort out your plugins in the same way , that should be easy for you .
Another way and link have been given to you by Jeroni in your MD ; how to make growable mega-lots . The residential parisian blocks you have seen in my MD are growing mega-lots . Due to their particular sizes (10x10 , but can be changed to 4x10 , 5x10 , 6x10 , 6x6 , 4x6 , 5x6 , etc   ) it's easy to get them controlling the zoning with the Ctrl key when you're zoning . I haven't created mine using this tutorial though ... I've used a serial of existing growing residential mega-lots  from barbyW ; "Quartier Alex" , "Quartier Touraine" , "Place des Alpes" , "Les Pauvres" (they have different wealth levels ) , changing their sizes and , of course , using Porkissimo's and Xannepan's BATs as props ...
Currently , these very useful Lots aren't available anymore at Simtropolis and haven't been transfered to the LEX . (They should be ! )


An example with Quartier Touraine , the original Lot ;


Now I've cleared the Lot , so you can see the building of this Lot ...


And from there several of my versions ....






... I can't show them all . ... but as I'm sure you're going to use massively your LotEditing skill , this method is for you as well .

[SAC]

Instead, Prepo's Arenantalo is an overhanging (partly diagonal) building, which allows you to zone e.g. small residential lots inside it.
Thus, those living in those hidden houses commute to the Arenantalo, and it looks as if they do live in the same building.

Well, that's a neat trick!     Perhaps not solving the issue itself, but still!

What I do (sometimes) is only have the buildings I really want to grow in my plugins while I'm playing. That way, they're guaranteed to show up.

For example, if you want to be a residential area with only Prepo's W2W buildings, simply leave them as the only R$$ in your plugins and play away. Once they've grown, make them historic and add the rest of the custom residentals back into the game.

I haven't had any problems with this yet. I will experiment and let you know if any bad things happen.

Looking forward to the results. While I generally don't care that much about industrial lots as they're usually a chaotic mess even in real life, (something which gives them their characteristic appearance obviously  ), I'm more in need of controlling the residential lots.  If trying to develop those typical European residential areas, it's necessary to be able to have some influence on what's being built - and where!  Your idea seems to be a descent alternative as far as I can see.  Still, just to be sure, when you've made the residential lots historical, and then want to continue with another area using other residential lots, what's the procedure?

I understand that you'll have to include those previously removed lots again, (i.e. .desc, .model, .lot), but what about those lots constructed as a result of your process?  If you don't want any of those buildings to appear in your next area you're trying to control with your "trick", which files are needed to be removed making this possible?  Is it enough to remove the lots - and adding them back again when eveything is done?  Btw, what happens if you remove a lot from the folders that has been built in a game?  I should probably know this, but since I've been away for a couple of years, it feels as if I'm starting all over again...

[Badsim]

I understand that you'll have to include those previously removed lots again, (i.e. .desc, .model, .lot), but what about those lots constructed as a result of your process?  If you don't want any of those buildings to appear in your next area you're trying to control with your "trick", which files are needed to be removed making this possible?  Is it enough to remove the lots - and adding them back again when eveything is done?  Btw, what happens if you remove a lot from the folders that has been built in a game?  I should probably know this, but since I've been away for a couple of years, it feels as if I'm starting all over again...

Well , I'm not so familiar with this method but have had a few experiences by accident .... You can remove only the Lots , if you keep the Model files (and Desc ) you'll not get brown boxes on already existing Lots in your city ... maybe a .sav file is created , to verify .... these .sav files are Lots and can be ( have to be ) deleted then all the process is done .

[SAC]

Well , I'm not so familiar with this method but have had a few experiences by accident .... You can remove only the Lots , if you keep the Model files (and Desc ) you'll not get brown boxes on already existing Lots in your city ... maybe a .sav file is created , to verify .... these .sav files are Lots and can be ( have to be ) deleted then all the process is done .

Okey, this is what I need to know for sure.  I find the method useful as explained by BigSlark, and it could work as an alternative when other options aren't there, but I really need to know how to continue with the process, (lots that have been placed and marked historically accordingly), so nothing goes wrong! 

And you're absolutely right Cedric, I'm up for a massive use of the LotEditor.  I'm highly considering the "No-Maxis-Lot"-mod, but as I want to use at least some of Maxis original B.A.T's, I will probably have to create my own custom lots for that to happen.  Another thing is that I often re-made a lot of them custom-made lots when I played the last time, and I'm sure this'll happen again! 

As for mega-lots, well...while it's a good idea I'm not sure it'll work in a city such as Olympia.  The reason be is that I used, and will use, a heavily mountainious terrain, and often this means that it's impossible to use mega-lots, as the terrain even in smaller areas tend to be somewhat "hilly" and above all - horrible!    I think I will go with the usual sizes, allowing me to make wonders with terrain, buildings, infrastructure, and the likes again!    Besides, knowing me I often tend to redo things all the time to improve, and if having a giant megalot in the way, might not be the best thing for me - or that purpose at all! 

[Badsim]

Have a doubt about what has been said about this NoMaxisMod ... A BSC one ? I thought it was from DuskTrooper ( which is active here from time to time ) and at Simtropolis ...
As I said , SAC, this mod is very selective ( RCI and by wealth level ...) .

And for sure , I prefer to see you in unbelievably heavily mountains !   


On a side note , what has became of your famous avatar ? 

[FrankU]

Ok guys, this is going out of hand now....
It's a very interesting thread and I appreciate all replies very much, but I hope you don't think bad of me if I say: this is too much work for me.
I hoped there would be some quite easy way to control growth of lots, but I know now that there is no such thing.

Of course the BSC No Maxis mod helps a bit.
Moving and removing of files is useful but I don't see how I could work with removing the lot files, but keeping the mod and desc files... It will be a mess within three days!

I'm afraid I have to live with it...
Although Andreas had a quite useful answer: renaming the lotfiles in my personal plugins folder into the four building styles available...

Who knows, maybe I am going to do that.

Thanks all of you.

[SAC]

And for sure , I prefer to see you in unbelievably heavily mountains !   

  Well, I am very eager to get started, but I'm still in the process of downloading new stuff - and considering the amount of all that, I'd say I have yet a couple of days to go...   To say the least...

On a side note , what has became of your famous avatar ? 

Nothing, as far as I know!  I haven't uploaded it yet though!  I will!  Later today! 

[RippleJet]

Have a doubt about what has been said about this NoMaxisMod ... A BSC one ? I thought it was from DuskTrooper ( which is active here from time to time ) and at Simtropolis ...

There's more than one Block Maxis / No Maxis mod, Cedric!

DuskTrooper's Block All Maxis Buildings works by removing residential and commercial buildings from all tilesets (Chicago, NY, Houston and Euro).

The BSC No Maxis Files works by setting the growth stage of all lots to 255.

The latter one is the only one that is fully CAMpatible, as some of the buildings included in DT's mod would overwrite changes made to industrial and stage 8 buildings in CAM.

[Badsim]

Well , thanks for the info , Tage  , when you've got something you're not searching for it anymore  . 

I've to check this one to compare so ....

[BigSlark]

SAC,

You mentioned at one point making your own CAMelots or CAMpatible lots (as lots that are made with the X-Tool are known). It is easy for a basic lot to be made from an existing model, ready for props and other textures to make it look great.

I realize that the idea of CAM and the X-Tool is probably a bit overwhelming, but I promise you that it is worth the effort.

Cheers,
Kevin

[SAC]

Well, if it's necessary at all.  From my understanding this entire CAM-thing seems to be mostly related to those mayoring skyscraper cities, whereas I'm focusing on a European stylished one.  Usually this works the opposite way compared to American cities since the closer you get to the city centre, the higher buildings, while you'll see those higher buildings in the outskirts of European cities instead, (as residential structures)! 

So for the moment I haven't decided whether or not use the CAM-feature at all!

[buckbeach]

Ok guys, this is going out of hand now....
It's a very interesting thread and I appreciate all replies very much, but I hope you don't think bad of me if I say: this is too much work for me.
I hoped there would be some quite easy way to control growth of lots, but I know now that there is no such thing.

Of course the BSC No Maxis mod helps a bit.
Moving and removing of files is useful but I don't see how I could work with removing the lot files, but keeping the mod and desc files... It will be a mess within three days!

I'm afraid I have to live with it...
Although Andreas had a quite useful answer: renaming the lotfiles in my personal plugins folder into the four building styles available...

Who knows, maybe I am going to do that.

Thanks all of you.

I have given this problem a little thought since asking for some sort of mod to tweak existing BATs/Lots to prohibited them from growing (subject of another thread).  I haven't thought it through as my mind has very much be preoccupied by the RL financial markets that is kicking the crap out of my personal finances.  So I will just quickly throw this out for someone else to think about. It is similar to Andreas' thought of but here goes.

We can control what style will grow in a given period in an ongoing games where previously built items do not disappear and function perfectly.  If we pick a style and restricted from our game (say Houston or whatever) and allow nothing to grow from it, then when there is a building we no longer want to grow, can we not just go in and change that BAT/Lot to the restricted style until we want to use it again, then change it back.  Seems there may be a minimal time consuming work around here.

Sorry for the lack of details, my minds a buzzing.

[FrankU]

Well, in theory your idea is right, as far as I can see. And it is as clear as it can be.
But in real life this would be a heck of a problem.

Do you know how many residential Lots I do have in my plugins folder? It must be at least three hundred. And editing these all the time is a very time consuming activity.  

So, I am afraid I'm not going to do this....

Pity though...

[rooker1]

Look, in my opinion all this is relatively easy.  Alek king has been doing this for a long time and I use the same method and it works perfectly for me.
Most important you need DuskTrooper's Block All Maxis Buildings
It's much easier when your city functions already and you have the demand.
You can control most building by the four different styles (Chicago, NY, Houston and Euro) and by taxes.  Knowing what style your lot is, is very important. 
For this I block all Maxis content, now that's out of the way. 
Block three of the four styles (Chicago, NY, Houston and Euro), change the taxes (for res. or com. what ever it is you are working on) all the way up to 20% and down to 4% or lower for the wealth level you want to grow.
Example
Res$     4%
Res$$   20%
Res$$$  20%

Now my pluggins folder is huge, so sometimes I get a few different buildings growing at the same time even after I do all this.  This is the only time patience comes into play.  It usually takes me about 15 to 20 minutes to get a few city blocks to be exactly what I want it to be.

If I don't make any sense, Alek king is a master at this and his tutorial is a must read and can be found here. [LINKIE]  He goes into more depth than I have.

I hope this helps as it has helped me very much.

Robin   

[buckbeach]

Well, in theory your idea is right, as far as I can see. And it is as clear as it can be.
But in real life this would be a heck of a problem.

Do you know how many residential Lots I do have in my plugins folder? It must be at least three hundred. And editing these all the time is a very time consuming activity.  

So, I am afraid I'm not going to do this....

Pity though...

You don't do it for every lot, only for those few that tend to dominate and keep growing every single time you zone or demolish for regrowth.  I have many, many that never grow in favor of a few.  You need to track them in some way though, to change them back at some point (maybe).

I have read many times that all lots have the same percent of chance to grow as any other (given all the other qualifiers are equal eg. demand, lot level, etc), but I don't believe this.  I am not smart enough to figure it out, but, I have been looking at the names and folders in group and it seems that the dominate files are low in the alphabet (A being low).  We now know in many instances the structure of the Plugins file do effect some creations/mods (this is from readin instructions as to how to name folders begining with Z, not from my personal understaning of the mechanics).

I am positive the base problem of dominating lots will eventually be solved by the gurus of the game.  We will just have to wait and try various work arounds until then.

[FrankU]

@Buckbeach...
You try to solve a different, but connected, problem.
I would like to be able to have influence on my lots so that I can grow neighbourhoods or streets with all te same lot, like rowhouses in real life. So in that case I would want to block everything but one family of lots...

Well OK, you could say that I put all my residential lots in the New Yourk group and then rename just the lots I need for the neighbourhood at hand to the Euro style. And so on...

It is possible, I guess. I'll consider it. Though Andreas' idea is most useful...
Hard to say how much work it is.

The real large problem rises when I want to develop several cities at the same time. In one city I want the Gascooker suburbs, in the other I want Simgoobers or Haarlemmergolds lots.... Then it will be a lot of renaming that eventually ends in a mess... This looks more like datatyping than like playing a game, and that was not my objective when I bought the CD.

[buckbeach]

@Buckbeach...
You try to solve a different, but connected, problem.
I would like to be able to have influence on my lots so that I can grow neighbourhoods or streets with all te same lot, like rowhouses in real life. So in that case I would want to block everything but one family of lots...

Well OK, you could say that I put all my residential lots in the New Yourk group and then rename just the lots I need for the neighbourhood at hand to the Euro style. And so on...

It is possible, I guess. I'll consider it. Though Andreas' idea is most useful...
Hard to say how much work it is.

The real large problem rises when I want to develop several cities at the same time. In one city I want the Gascooker suburbs, in the other I want Simgoobers or Haarlemmergolds lots.... Then it will be a lot of renaming that eventually ends in a mess... This looks more like datatyping than like playing a game, and that was not my objective when I bought the CD.

I think I have seen a couple of tools that facilitate separtate content Plugins or menus, but I find it more than a challange to work on one city at a time.  Too old and slow learner at this stage.

[Xiziz]

Hmm, i think i might share my tips and tricks too, i use a Maxis blocker(any maxis buildings i want i will relot anyway) for starters.

Rasing taxes of wealthlevels undesierable is great!
Add some time and you will get nice even and nice looking areas, this to has been said before.

I know that everyone seems to think that Residential Plops dont work, however, i have figuerd out(with the help of Owen) that plopping R$ buildings with buggis extra cheat .dll works perfectly fine, no abandonment(well unless the area you plopped it in dosnt have the required conditions(water and power basicly)). might be good to know.

Personally im just waiting for the X-Tool to go public(as it hasnt as far as im aware?), then i will probably go over every growable to fix them up to standard and sort them out in some way, most likley making residentials i want to plop R$ and those i want to grow R$$ or R$$$(which will be mostly low-density housing for villages and outskirts).

I build European Cities too, or rather A European city, closly inspired by eastern european(ex-commie) cities during their commietimes. which means a lot of identical buildings, both in the centre and for the suburbs and even for the low-density areas too.

[Badsim]

I know that everyone seems to think that Residential Plops dont work, however, i have figuerd out(with the help of Owen) that plopping R$ buildings with buggis extra cheat .dll works perfectly fine, no abandonment(well unless the area you plopped it in dosnt have the required conditions(water and power basicly)). might be good to know.

Perfectly right ! It's amazing how certain legends seem to be indestructrible !! 

Residential & industrial plopped Lots work when they are plopped on already existing ones . The only thing which doesn't work is the commute time query , from that  lot of people said that inhabitants of these residences can't go away their homes to find a job . That's not as simple as that , I think so because these Lots aren't abandoned , their number of inhabitants is counted in the global population of the city and they influence visibly and permanently on the RCI demand ...

Here a residential & an insdustrial example from my city , these plopped Lots are among the first present in AntigOne , in game time since 135 years ....





I think this question about plopped residences or industries has never been totally studied ... at least I don't know a such thread .So what I'm showing here are observations ...