Greenacre

[rooker1]

 That is absolutley amazing.  A tunnel removal mod.....that means this idea could be applied to the rest of the tunnels as well and we could have members making all sorts of tunnels.  What a fabulous idea Matt.
The train tour around the island was fun....I'm just wondering about the wine selection.

Great work!
Robin 

[Battlecat]

That's an excellent looking scenic railway! 

[noahclem]

Great rails Matt! Sign me up for the tour, some local wine and cuisine with a view sounds great    Look forward to seeing how the tunnel removal mod progresses too--very interesting 

[Jmouse]

That tunnel is awesome, Matt. You did a terrific job on the textures.

You captured some really good scenes for this update. In fact, they're so good, I'm going to save them and try to copy them for practice. I've been fooling around in my test region recently, but I haven't played the game in so long I'm as rusty as than The Tin Man in a thunder storm! 29.07 is especially attractive because of the ground cover, but all of them look really good.

Looking forward to tomorrow...
Joan

[threestooges]

Replies:

Robin (rooker1):The wine selection is mostly domestic, from the several vineyards around Greenacre. Nothing too fancy though, as the train isn't the best place to store wine. special bottles will be stocked though if ordered in advance. Glad you enjoyed, and I hope you enjoy this update today.


Battlecat: Thanks. Glad you enjoyed.


noahclem: Book your tickets today, spaces are limited. As for the tunnel mod, it's in the works, and being refined. Hopefully they will be simple puzzle pieces when all is said and done. Bit of work to go before then though. Glad you like them. It's good to know they'll be useful when done.


Joan (Jmouse):You're welcome to copy whatever you want. As rusty as you may think you are, I'm happy to provide whatever oil is needed to get you going again. Hope to see your results soon. Until then, take it easy.


Well, I was hoping to get this posted yesterday, but time ran short on me (I passed the bar exam and met up with some friends from law school to celebrate). As a result, I never got around to the discussion of airports promised on Wednesday. What follows here now is partly an analysis of airports, and partly an explanation of what Greenacre is.

As it's been from the very first update, I've always invited feedback and thoughts about what is shown here. Everyone brings a different view on things, and it's always interesting to see what people pick up on within a given picture. I was pleased to see the response to the airport update of a couple days ago.

In creating Greenacre International, I drew upon several airports I've been to in real life. I'm by no means an expert on airport layouts or how things are supposed to work, but there are a few common things airports, at their base, have in common, the major differences seem to occur as a result of:

-population to be served
-available land to build on
-prevailing winds (which seem to dictate which direction the runways go, to allow planes to face into the wind for takeoff and landing)
-area surrounding the airport, and style to be conveyed

Generally, airports are noisy, especially in the jet age, and the more planes that take off in a given time, the more noise there is. As a result, a more modern airport, serving a larger population, is less likely to have residential property surrounding it. With large populations though, land tends to be scarce. You're less likely to see open space surrounding an airport in a city with higher populations.

As a result, it would stand to reason that you would see the area filled in by things which aren't bothered by loud noises: industrial properties, and likely a few commercial services to take advantage of the high commuter numbers.

More flights will often result in more runways, provided land exists, otherwise runway capacity may be one of the primary restrictors of an airport's capacity. This is especially true in cases where runways intersect.

As for Robin's comment:

All  the airports that I have ever seen don't have that much green space or parks.  If you can find some time have a look at "Pearson International Airport, Mississauga, Ontario" in Google Maps, it's my airport.   Here you will find lots of road, rail, warehouses and very little green, except for the empty fields on the back side.

Toronto, Canada is a city of around 2.5M people and the metropolitan area surrounding it, is somewhere over 5M. the airport itself appears to handle around 30M passengers per year (sources: wikipedia (for what it's worth)). The airport also appears to be a hub for a variety of cargo transport companies, which would seem to account for the rail, warehouses, and general lack of greenery. Industry, with certain exceptions like office parks, generally don't seem to care about making things green and pretty.

I think I see one thing Robin may be saying though. Greenacre Intl uses a lot of grass between the runways and taxiways. In his picture from Pearson, the grass isn't nearly as uniform in color or density. However, before going further into detail about Greenacre Intl. I think it would be useful to address the airports I've drawn from.

I'll start with one whose development I've seen over the past 20 or so years: John Wayne Airport (KSNA):

30.01


This airport is bordered by three freeways: to the north by the 405 freeway, west by the 55, and south by the 73. It has 2 runways, but only one is long enough for things larger than the average private plane. Additionally, just to the south is Newport Bay, and Newport Beach, home of multi-million dollar houses, and people who are very touchy about noise.

Now this proximity has caused a bit of tension between the neighbors and the airport, but it largely seems to have worked well. It also means that, in order to reduce noise, the take off angle here is remarkably steep (and one heckuva ride). It's also restricted in the number of takeoff and landing slots per day.

In large part, I think this airport formed the base of Greenacre's, at least with the single primary runway design that looks out toward the ocean.

30.02 - John Wayne's parking and front view


So, another feature of this airport is that it's in a commercial/residential area, which means that the frontage of the building tends to be rather green. This is, in part, what inspired the park in front of the terminal (plus it was a way to tie in the subway and train stations).

This next airport you may have seen in RickD's MD

30.03 - Santa Barbara Airport (KSBA)


Here's one of the examples of intersecting runways putting a limit on capacity, but also the prevailing winds tend to have the ones going left-right in the picture as the active runways. The purpose for showing this one is the surrounding area: UCSB (the university) is down left in the picture, and the freeway runs to the north (with a minor one on the right there). The airport is out in the city of Goleta (near Santa Barbara) and the city itself has a significant number of warehouses and other industrial aspects to it, but there's still land that you see around the airport itself. It's not green necessarily, but it is natural.

This next one is an example of a mega airport:

30.04 - LAX (KLAX)


Here you have the Pacific Ocean to the west, the 405 freeway to the east, but plenty of land, and plenty of pavement. The area around it is heavily developed, with plenty of cargo facilities and industrial property along the approach route. There are small residential areas nearby, but any in the flight path are rather low wealth (R$ if anything) and low density. If you note the 1 freeway there (Pacific Coast Highway) it actually goes under two of the runways near the terminal entrance. This may be something more in line with what Robin was thinking of. However, the reason I didn't use many points of it for Greenacre is that it's just too big for Greenacre's needs.

It does demonstrate some of the features I noted above though:
-population to be served: much of the greater LA area
-available land to build on: plenty of land, and I think they may still be trying to get more
-prevailing winds (which seem to dictate which direction the runways go, to allow planes to face into the wind for takeoff and landing) - note the 4 main runways following more or less the same approach
-area surrounding the airport, and style to be conveyed: Industry and cargo facilities abound, and it's a straight airport. You go to the area to catch a plane or to pickup/drop off people. It's geared toward that aspect, and there are few additional things that aren't needed, since they need every bit of space they can get.

Somewhat on the other end of the large airport spectrum is Eppley Field in Omaha, Nebraska (KOMA)

30.05


This is an airport with plenty of land to work with, and plenty of land still around it. There's no visibly maintained grass here, but then this may be winter which would mean the grass has likely been dormant and brown for a while. What is noteworthy however, is that the land seems to be in a natural state, and not manicured.

Based on this one, I do plan to make some changes to the airport there in Greenacre. While you don't want nature to take over your airport, especially when birds are around, a more natural look seems like it wouldn't be a bad thing.

As for the idea to make the military base share the facility, that feature came from the Reno-Tahoe (formerly Reno-Cannon) airport (KRNO). They have a number of C-130s there in addition to other planes, but I remember watching those things try to climb under a full load after taking off, looking like they were struggling to stay aloft. Sturdy planes those were.

30.06 - Reno-Tahoe (KRNO)


The national guard base actually shares the same runways as the airport here, instead of, as in Greenacre, having their own private one.

30.07


There's also Long Beach airport (KLGB), one of the few where you still walk out onto the tarmac to walk up the steps to your plane. Walking into the terminal is like walking back in time.

30.08 - Long Beach - (KLGB)


The large private plane area of Greenacre's airport owes a fair bit to Long Beach. The airport was, and still is home to a few airplane companies (including military planes) and there are many private facilities here in addition to commercial traffic. The intersecting runways and large areas of tarmac partly account for the similar sprawl of Greenacre's airport. If you are ever looking for a flight out of LA and don't want to go to LAX, consider this one. It's a great little place, and great for plane-spotters.

So, for those of you who actually made it through all of that, where does that leave things?

Airports seem to be a product of their environments and how they've grown up over time. I don't think there is any one design that works in every situation. Greenacre is a still a city that's growing and changing. They placed the airport where they did to be close enough to the population centers without being so close as to disturb people regularly with the noise of arriving and departing planes.

I'll post an updated picture of the airport tomorrow. Hope this was an interesting explanation of what all went into the though process behind the airport here.

Also, I just noticed this post by adroman in the tutorials section. It's in the process of discussing how to build airports in the game. I'll be curious to see how Greenacre would rate among them in terms of realism.
-Matt

[Jmouse]

An excellent analysis, Matt. You certainly did your homework. I can see where the same analytical principal could be used in other areas of the game, too. In times past, I've been guilty of failing to stop and think about why I make certain in-game decisions. I believe I can say in all honesty you've changed the way I'll approach SC4 in the future.

Also, congratulations on passing the bar exam! You did your homework on that project, too!

Later...
Joan

[noahclem]

Thanks for the insight and congratulations on passing the bar    You're a better student than I was 

Like KLGB, RIX in Riga, Latvia requires you to walk out onto the tarmac (after a quick bus shuttle). I wouldn't recommend the experience there however, especially if you are averse to lots of travelers wearing way too much perfume/cologne in too small a space with too few places to sit.

I haven't got around to making a custom SC4 airport yet and the discussion here should help me when I get around to doing so 

[rooker1]

It gave me great pleasure to move Matt's (threestooges') MD from The Best Sellers section and into OSITM for the week and what a great week it was.  Now I am even happier that his MD no longer will be in The Best Sellers section, but now will sit with the rest of the Classics!!

Congratulations my friend, from myself and The SC4D Staff!!

[Battlecat]

That was a very interesting discussion on Airports!  That was an interesting read for a Monday morning!

Congratulations on your move to Classics! 

[cubby420]

Congrats on the move!  Custom airports scare the daylights out of me but you may have inspired me to give a small one a shot.

[rooker1]

 *whew*  I made it to the end.

That was an interesting read....and how could I not read it when I can see my name several times throughout. I agree.....now.  I think I will need to do an airport sooner or later on the currnet map I am using.
I personelly like the LA airport.  With the surrounding freeways/highways and the industrial zones snug in against them.  I think I will be Google Earthing that one.

Great work again and super week with you, Matt.

Robin 

[calibanX]

An excellent guide to your thinking on airports Matt. I have to thank Joan (Jmouse) for pointing me toward it. Airports grow organically with the city they are located in. What I enjoy about building them in Sim City is the challenge of designing an airport and a city to surround it and make them look like they grew together and belong together.

Geoff

[Tomas Neto]

Generally, airports are noisy, especially in the jet age, and the more planes that take off in a given time, the more noise there is.

O yeah..., I live near a big airport and I suffer with such a situation!!!   
Very interesting text, my friend!!! And welcome to the Classics!!!   

[Skimbo]

I've enjoyed the update that's following a train on it's way Nice!

[dedgren]

Matt, I just don't get out enough.

The tunnel entrances are releasable yesterday, as far as I'm concerned.  The lack of an STR portal has been a major gap in the game for two years now- I think you've nailed it.  I realize that there might still be techie issues out there, but we should get your great work on these surfaced where folks who can address those issues (if you can't, and I'm reading between the lines- I'm hopeless at that sort of stuff myself) can get going.  I see no issue as well with using the same style to replace the DTR portal.  Yours have so much more character than the poured concrete crapola that the game developer came up with.  The only detail that I would add to the "vanilla" portal is patches of exposed rusting rebar.

You've rekindled my interest in airports.  I have a ton of diagonal RMIP runway work that has been offered to all the airport teams, and has sat 90% complete since May, 2007.  That's too long, and it's time to address that situation.

Congrats as well on Greenacre being designated a "Classic" MD.  I say that because all of us out here knew that it was a classic all along.


David

[threestooges]

Replies:
Joan (Jmouse): I actually may have changed the way I approach it in some sense too. In playing the game, especially for Greenacre, I've always tried to think about the story behind some feature: explaining why there are two of the same building next to each other (besides that I was too lazy to pull out the bulldozer), or why the road might curve wildly in an otherwise flat area. For a number of these things they've been inspired by real world things I've seen, but even with BATting, Google maps provides great perspective for realistic design. The biggest trick there is taking the time to research and analyze it all, which is exactly what we all want to do when we sit down to relax and play a game. The results do seem to help the overall product though. Always good to see you here Joan.


Noah (noahclem): Thanks for the thoughts Noah, and I'm just glad it's done with. That's not a test I'd enjoy taking again. As for the experience with the shuttle you mentioned, I can only imagine what the rest of the plane ride must be like. When you do get ready to make your first custom airport, I recommend just taking a spare city tile and just plopping out all of the pieces and trying a few combinations before committing. They're so versatile and this airport changed several times as I went through it. There are also a number of custom aircraft projects that I've seen going on which will add even more options for you to consider. Let me know when you get around to building yours. I'll add it to the Greenacre flight map.


Robin (rooker1) x2: Thanks Robin, both for moving this to the Classics and for your thoughts on the airport. Glad to see you enjoyed the discussion and I'll be looking forward to what you end up doing with yours. I'm sure it'll be something when it's all said and done. Keep me posted on its development if you think about it.


Battlecat: Glad you enjoyed it. Not exactly light reading, but perhaps some of the airports' elements are visible in Greenacre International. I know Adara is likely a bit away from its airport, but I know it'll be a sight to see when it's done.


cubby420: Nothing to fear with custom airports. There are plenty of pieces to choose from, but just take your time, figure out what you want it to look like, and be sure to save plenty of space. They do take up quite a bit of room, and they'll take as much room as you'll give them. Also, as I suggested with Noah above, take a spare city tile and just plop everything you have out to see what it all looks like and perhaps try a few small samples to see what works best for you. Then it's just a matter of time and fiddling through the various pieces until you're done. Best of luck with it when you build yours.


Geoff (calibanX): Indeed Geoff, when you build up an area in SC4, unless you do build it over time and try to wedge an airport in, usually areas are built in-game all at the same time. Oddly enough, this one had the fortune of being unplanned. I felt Greenacre could use an airport and that was one of the largest land areas left that would reasonably support the addition of one, so that's where it came from. Possibly I'll consider a plan to relocate or expand it, but I agree, part of the fun here is creating the story behind the building. It helps explain and also influence what goes where. Glad you enjoyed.


Tomas Neto: Sorry to hear about the airport problem, but also glad to hear you enjoyed the update. Thanks for the welcome to the classics section too.


Skimbo: Welcome to Greenacre! Glad you enjoyed the update.


David (dedgren): As I'm sure you've read elsewhere, while I would certainly consider releasing the tunnels as they are, I do want to see if I can get them to the point where they wouldn't need any additional updates, and where they can work in most situations. Sadly this project, along with Greenacre, found its way to the back burner for the past few months, but I'm finding some time here again and I'd like to get back to both. Hope to see one of the airport teams pick up the baton for the RMIP runways, or to at least see them done in some way as well. You do some fine work with your texturing. Also, thank you very much for the welcome into the Classics section. It's been a fun journey here, there's plenty to come, and it's made all the more enjoyable by people like you (and that goes for all of the rest of you Regulars* too)

*Regulars in the 3RR sense of anyone who has posted at least once.


I'm not entirely sure what happened to the time since late November, but a fair bit of it has included work. I'm starting to get to the point where I have a reasonably predictable schedule, or at least predictable in the sense that I think I know when I'm going to have some free time. With that being said, I'm going to try to get some regular Greenacre updates going again. I'm planning to reorganize my plugins over the weekend, and hopefully take stock of what I have, perhaps find a new building or something I forgot I had to to highlight. Thank you all for your words. It's been a great trip this far with all of you, and there is still much to come.
-Matt

[io_bg]

Finding free time can often be quite difficult. Good luck, I'm eager to see what you'll show us next!

[cubby420]

Well thanks for the nudge in the right direction.   

[mrbisonm]

Nice going TS. I've gotta be honest with you. I stole some smaller ideas (hope you don't mind) how to make a decent looking airport from this MD because I'm not a master in this department at all, and your's are nice looking at, and coming up the airport in Access, I needed some ideas. Thanks

Fred

[noahclem]

Glad to hear you're back and I'll be looking forward to more of your work! It's been a few months and I still haven't built a custom airport, though I have a site picked and development is finally moving in that direction. Whenever I do I'll be referencing your MD